471 réponses à ce sujet

[-TC1989-]

Topsider wrote...

Degs29 wrote...

Not that it's incredibly important, but I think any workarounds to nudity in a mature game are just silly. I realize video games are behind movies in this regard, but come on. Aren't we past this? If anyone seriously takes offense at nudity in M-rated games, that's their problem.

It's not really the players taking offense at nudity (unless they're prudes), it's the media. Their fake outrage when they need a story is plain for all to see. The attack on ME was a classic example. No matter how blatant and obnoxious it was, that kind of smear tactic will make a publisher/developer think twice in the future, even when everyone knows they did nothing wrong.

Yeah the media just wants to have something to bash, and kill time. I highly doubt a lot of them play these games, they just catch a whiff of something "vulgar" and then want to complain that we're corrupt. Video games themselves have evolved into something more than past decades. There's a living, breathing aspect to them now, people have expectations, and become truly emotionally involved. I know games always had the power to do so, but even more so now. A lot of people are brought to a game closer than before simply because of graphics, and just updated technology that is used within these games. I myself loved the games of the past, but enjoy the beauty of how they look today, and that alone can make me invest a little more feeling into it. For a lot of people still, nudity is something that was going to be brought up eventually. It's something that's been avoided, and I'm floored that so many people have such a problem with the human body. As I said before I believe Bioware wants a more cleaned up mature fantasy, and that's fine. They just need to stick to the fade to black, and not embarrass themselves by making characters hump in their sleepwear.

[ReallyRue]

Personally I'd rather have a fade-to-black scene with more talking before/after.

For instance, I really liked the chat with Isabela after her 'romance scene' where she talks about her past. It's a proper little conversation where you get to know her better, moreso than the other LIs, who say something directly romance related instead (like 'I want to move in' or 'I should go').

[Jorina Leto]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Anyways, I always thought it was weird to see the Underwear thing DA:O and DA2

Wasn't DA2 primarily fading to black as well?

I believe the complaint isn't about not seeing the act itself, but rather seeing the post-blackscreen characters in their underwear. I can see how it could break immersion for some, since it reminds me of how post-coital talk is often depicted in television broadcasts.

Yeah, this was strange with the Merrill scene. Carefully chosen camera angles would have been better.

Or returen later to the scene, like in this picture:

[Renmiri1]

Pseudocognition wrote...

but most animations for AAA games are done by hand or mo-cap.

Yup and sex mocap is not freely available, or at least wasn't until 2011 when the SL guy released his SexGen work free perm.

Same for the texturing of realistic private parts. No it isn't impossible but causes issue with the armor, takes time and effort and 99% of the time it won't be seem

Seems we agree then ?

Getting a male / female actress to undress and perform on camera takes roughly the same time and money than getting the same actor / actress to play a swordfight on camera. Hence on movies TV and web pr0n, both are done quite often.

On 3D CGI though sex and violence are NOT on equal footing. Martial arts have been mocapped to death, so have FPS action and other combat styles. Body dismembering ? Done to death and sometimes part of the physics engine. Cowgirl, missionary, 69 ? NOPE.

I don't understand why you are trying to nitpick something so obvious.

[Renmiri1]

ReallyRue wrote...

Personally I'd rather have a fade-to-black scene with more talking before/after.

For instance, I really liked the chat with Isabela after her 'romance scene' where she talks about her past. It's a proper little conversation where you get to know her better, moreso than the other LIs, who say something directly romance related instead (like 'I want to move in' or 'I should go').

Isabella's scene was pretty hot, at least it fits my idea of well done and realistic - though the two knives on back bit was funny - while not showing much nudity at all...

(NSFW)

Modifié par Renmiri1, 04 avril 2013 - 08:24 .

[ReallyRue]

Renmiri1 wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

Personally I'd rather have a fade-to-black scene with more talking before/after.

For instance, I really liked the chat with Isabela after her 'romance scene' where she talks about her past. It's a proper little conversation where you get to know her better, moreso than the other LIs, who say something directly romance related instead (like 'I want to move in' or 'I should go').

Isabella's scene was pretty hot, at least it fits my idea of well done and realistic - though the two knives on back bit was funny - while not showing much nudity at all...

I prefer her scene with the kissing, falling onto the bed, and the knives bit much more enjoyable to watch than any of the romance scene from DA2/DAO. I'd still happily drop it for more talking though, tbh. I just like getting to know as much about them as I can. 

[Degs29]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Degs29 wrote...

Not that it's incredibly important, but I think any workarounds to nudity in a mature game are just silly. I realize video games are behind movies in this regard, but come on. Aren't we past this? If anyone seriously takes offense at nudity in M-rated games, that's their problem.

....

No, the main issue is that technology for 3D nudity in games is just not available yet, while getting a RL actress to undress is cheap and easy. 3D mesh models are still on the Ken / Barbie doll age, or even earlier since Barbie already has nipples and most 3D mesh / textures don't.

Yeah, I understand that.  And they're going to stay like that (at least for awhile) until this aversion to nudity/sex in mature games is displaced.  There is certainly a double standard involved between movies and video games.  The majority of people still seem to see video games as a child's domain and so the thought of this stuff in video games freaks them out.  They have no idea how big the market for mature games has gotten and how fast it's still growing.

[Renmiri1]

I think the gaming industry can be very myopic.

On another thread we were talking about doing co-op play with your friends - or in my case co-op playing wow or Zelda with my kids (though the co-op part was low tech "pass the controller here" type ) is fun. Not the Xbox pwning 12 year old screaming insults "fun" but the "lan party with friends" fun.

So kiddie games can benefit a lot from more money and attention and I bet that now that some gamers are getting older and having kids, it will be something that will sell. but no one is marketing those kind of products.

Gamer demographics also changed a lot after the Angry Birds / Farmville / etc.. woke up an older population to gaming online and how it can be fun. Nowadays young male gamers are only 18% of the market yet most AAA titles are being done for them

And yes, the mature grown up 18+ gamer that doesn't faint if it sees a side boob is also being completely ignored.

And then they complain that games aren't selling. No **** sherlock, you are marketing and developing stuff to a public thta existed 10 years ago and only doing sequels, what did you expect ? Reruns sell poorly, any TV station can tell you that.

[imbs]

Nowadays young male gamers are only 18% of the market yet most AAA titles are being done for them

people who do not understand statistics should not cite them.

[-TC1989-]

Are people really under the impression that almost everyone that asks for nudity are 18 yr. old males? I won't believe for a second that our society is so closed minded, as to believe that most women are prudes, and that older men see nudity as distasteful, and offensive. I guess I'm one of the few that seeing a nude character (in the correct setting) only enhances the immersion, and not some pervert whose foaming at the mouth, waiting to see pixelated boobs.

Modifié par -TC1989-, 04 avril 2013 - 09:15 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

This isn't restricted to Bioware OP...

Besides allowing nudity (even if pixel concealed) means each NPC needs a reaction to seeing your character nude. There are far better things to spend resources on here.

[ReallyRue]

Adding nudity can easily open up a can of worms. It's easy to say 'include nudity, Bioware', but what does that actually mean? It's all fine and well saying that TV has nudity, but just look at the programmes that show it most prevalently. Boobs be popping out all over the place in Game of Thrones, but the penises are in short supply. Even half a man's arse is a pretty rare occurence. I hear The Witcher get a lot of praise for its 'mature' nude scenes, I have never played it, but I get the impression it's just naked women again with Geralt presumably sexing them through his clothes (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Would that really be the ideal for a nude scene in a Bioware game?

Modifié par ReallyRue, 04 avril 2013 - 09:29 .

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Bioware should have just not listened to the media during the idiotic ME1 sex scene bashing. It was a sex scene in a game rated mature for crying out loud. No one has sexual intercourse while in their small clothes the entire time. 

It is okay to have exploding heads and blood everywhere but it is somehow wrong to include full on nudity. Where is the logic in that ? 

It would be nice if Bioware ditched the underwear & stuck with nudity like they did in ME1. Or if they want to, they can pull a Witcher 2. 

Bottom line is this is an M-rated game. Anything & everything goes. It is not a game for everyone, especially young kids. So nudity should be perfectly fine. 

Modifié par The Sin, 04 avril 2013 - 09:35 .

[Bayonet Hipshot]

-TC1989- wrote...

Are people really under the impression that almost everyone that asks for nudity are 18 yr. old males? I won't believe for a second that our society is so closed minded, as to believe that most women are prudes, and that older men see nudity as distasteful, and offensive. I guess I'm one of the few that seeing a nude character (in the correct setting) only enhances the immersion, and not some pervert whose foaming at the mouth, waiting to see pixelated boobs.

Very good point my friend, very good point ! 

[Renmiri1]

imbs wrote...

Nowadays young male gamers are only 18% of the market yet most AAA titles are being done for them

people who do not understand statistics should not cite them.

Indeed

http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

[-TC1989-]

Elton John is dead wrote...

This isn't restricted to Bioware OP...

Besides allowing nudity (even if pixel concealed) means each NPC needs a reaction to seeing your character nude. There are far better things to spend resources on here.

You're over thinking it. I'm not saying have a nude npc on street corners for no reason. I'm saying if you're going to add a mature sexual relationship, then why the hell not have nudity? If there's going to be a love scene, I don't see the big deal. If you're not, then have fade to black, and have it as that. Just don't do an Origins love scene ever again, I mean if you want to be taken seriously. When I say the correct settings, I'm talking sex scenes, brothels etc. With those types of situations, nudity is pretty damn common. I don't get the fact that people want to run around with their character in their small clothes, but hey... to each their own.

Modifié par -TC1989-, 04 avril 2013 - 09:49 .

[imbs]

Renmiri1 wrote...

imbs wrote...

Nowadays young male gamers are only 18% of the market yet most AAA titles are being done for them

people who do not understand statistics should not cite them.

Indeed

http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

this is exactly why you should stay away from statistics. It's actually cringe-worthy bad I really would recommend stopping.

[Renmiri1]

imbs wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

imbs wrote...

Nowadays young male gamers are only 18% of the market yet most AAA titles are being done for them

people who do not understand statistics should not cite them.

Indeed

http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

this is exactly why you should stay away from statistics. It's actually cringe-worthy bad I really would recommend stopping.

Dunno, don't take advice from imbs or imbecils. But my MBA and EE went fine, even though it had lots of stats on it.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 04 avril 2013 - 10:01 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Renmiri1 wrote...

I don't understand why you are trying to nitpick something so obvious.

You clearly don't understand or want to understand how it works so I'm going to leave you to that.

[Renmiri1]

-TC1989- wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

This isn't restricted to Bioware OP...

Besides allowing nudity (even if pixel concealed) means each NPC needs a reaction to seeing your character nude. There are far better things to spend resources on here.

You're over thinking it. I'm not saying have a nude npc on street corners for no reason. I'm saying if you're going to add a mature sexual relationship, then why the hell not have nudity? If there's going to be a love scene, I don't see the big deal. If you're not, then have fade to black, and have it as that. Just don't do an Origins love scene ever again, I mean if you want to be taken seriously. When I say the correct settings, I'm talking sex scenes, brothels etc. With those types of situations, nudity is pretty damn common. I don't get the fact that people want to run around with their character in their small clothes, but hey... to each their own.

We do talk a lot about why here on the thread. TL;DR version is 3D CGI and animations for sex need basically to be done from scratch, while combat, swordplay, explosions and the like have been motion capped and done for the past 20 years so it is very cheap and easy to make heads roll and blood flow but takes "zots" and time and effort to make.. other things explode 

I agree morally there is no reason but prudery and Fox news. But I suspect most of the objection is more practical than moral. Spent time and effort doing something from scratch that will take 10 seconds of game time to be viewed is silly.

[imbs]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Dunno, don't take advice from imbs or imbecils. But my MBA and EE went fine, even though it had lots of stats on it.

lol

I'd be offended but I don't take people who think gaming statistics that include the wii/angry birds/handhelds are relevant to Bioware or other Console/PC developers seriously.

[Ridwan]

Are you guys just as passionate on the gameplay as you are about romance and sex scenes? Just asking.

[-TC1989-]

M25105 wrote...

Are you guys just as passionate on the gameplay as you are about romance and sex scenes? Just asking.

I'm guessing you don't play too many Bioware games, if you're questioning how seriously some people take the romance aspect of their games... Just guessing.

[imbs]

M25105 wrote...

Are you guys just as passionate on the gameplay as you are about romance and sex scenes? Just asking.

do you not know where you are? This is the BSN m8. The home of those who want romance simulators but are too stupid to just go download a random VN that accomplishes the same thing. Have you seen this forum at all seriously? For every gameplay thread there are 20 romance/lore/story/character threads.