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[Renmiri1]

EntropicAngel wrote...

The Sin wrote...

Bioware should have just not listened to the media during the idiotic ME1 sex scene bashing. It was a sex scene in a game rated mature for crying out loud. No one has sexual intercourse while in their small clothes the entire time. 

...

Bottom line is this is an M-rated game. Anything & everything goes. It is not a game for everyone, especially young kids. So nudity should be perfectly fine. 

But what if Bioware isn't putting nudity there because Bioware doesn't want to?


I suspect they'll (the complainers) never learn.

I believe what people are discussing here is possible reasons why "Bioware doesn't want to" , not the fact that they will do it or not. Although corporations are considered people by US law  they still aren't so "evolved" as to have whims and prejudices like we people do. There sure are meetings and memos floating around and weighing the pros and cons of nudity and the Fox News crisis and what not, with the reasoning for their current stance on the issue. "Want" isn't something corporations do, at least not yet... 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 05 avril 2013 - 02:56 .

[Renmiri1]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Corporations may not be people, but they're controlled by people. Shareholders. CEOs.

Consider what kind of people these are. Then it may make more sense.

Aye, no argument here. What I mean is that "Bioware doesn't want to do it" is a very simplistic way of putting things. Of course David Gaider, from Bioware, can say this  if he thinks he himself - David Gaider - does not want to share corporate strategy reasoning with us lowly BSN forum dwellers.

But both we and him know that corporations don't "want" or "feel" so what is basically being said is "we ain't doing it and we ain't explaining it either, deal with it". Which is perfectly fine, BW doesn't owe us an explanation or anything. Is also perfectly fine for us to puzzle out and wonder their reasons for it. Is part of "dealing with it". 

BTW, talking about writing. Neuromancer :wub: I sooo wish we had anything remotely at the same level on videogame writing! Sentient corporations melding AI and people in cyberspace.. the guy wrote that before the World Wide Web. roughly 10 years before the browser, at least 5 years before Tim Berners Leee even proposed anything like it on scientific papers!  Can you believe how far ahead of the game William Gibson was ??? 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 05 avril 2013 - 04:59 .

[andy6915]

Ah, EntropicAngel... Continuing that garbage logic again? As I said to Gaider earlier.

andy69156915 wrote...

I get that Bioware doesn't want to, David Gaider. But like I said, not wanting to is an effect not a cause. People don't want to do things because they don't want to, they don't want to because of an underlying reason. Saying you don't want to isn't an explanation of why you don't, it's a conclusion of why you don't. There's always a specific reason behind why someone does or doesn't want to do something. And right now, Bioware is being tight-lipped on that specific reason.

Not that I'm saying that you need to give that reason up. That's up to you and the company you work for. I'm just saying using "they don't want to/we don't want to" isn't a reason or explanation at all, and trying to say it is one is hollow.

"I don't want to" is a CONCLUSION, not an EXPLANATION. "I don't want to" is the end point of deciding, not the beginning. "I don't want to because I don't want to" is circular logic. With a logical and sane reason, you don't want to do something because of actual reasoning and explanation. So STOP trying to use the end point to explain the beginning point about Bioware's reasons, it's nonsensical.

[andy6915]

The thread didn't ask that, but it's where the discussion has headed for the last 19 pages. You're still trying to use that as an explanation even to people that are asking why.

[Sylvianus]

Bioware doesn't want to because they think it's tasteless. That's about it.

[andy6915]

^
Maybe. We can guess their motives and reasons all day, but we'll never know until Bioware themselves tells us. It's at least An actual explanation and not a conclusion.

[Renmiri1]

andy69156915 wrote...

^
Maybe. We can guess their motives and reasons all day, but we'll never know until Bioware themselves tells us. It's at least An actual explanation and not a conclusion.

+1,000

IMHO the tasteless thing Gaider mentioned is his perspective, as creative writer. I'm sure the EA guy signing his paycheck is less concerned about taste than about bottom line and has a different perspective. And the guy who has to actually texture and animate the models has a different perspective, maybe he thinks like me - all the fuss isn't worth the time - maybe he thinks like the Witcher guys and would love to have more time to do a bang-up job of animating the sex scenes (pun intended). And the guy who had had no budget or time or people to help him redo dungeon maps when paths get closed or opened may think "f**k nudity, give me 3 hours of dev time and let me make decent maps!".

A company is made of many people and each has their own tunnel vision and biases. A decision by a company has many reasons and sometimes can even be as petty and simple as the CEO doesn't "want" to do it, but that rarely flies in publically traded companies, not for long at least. 

What we are doing here is speculate and try to discuss reasons that nudity isn't being used, reasons why it should be used, reasons why it shouldn't be used and the like. What Bioware thinks and does won't change an iota because of us here but helps to pass the time and talk about boobs, beer and cupcakes. 

[Sylvianus]

When devs are telling us that they don't want to, because they think it's tasteless, even if EA blah blah blah thank you, it's legitimate to argue about that in this case. If this isn't the first reason why they won't do that, then I don't see the point to mention it. That doesn't make any sense. If it was, " we won't because we can't, or too many issues, then just say it.

I've seen their comments, their arguments for months with that subject and it was pretty much the same reasons mentioned, again and again, and again. Anyways, I am certain nobody would be satisfied with that explanation,. It " must " be something else lol. Fear, or fox new, I don't know what.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 05 avril 2013 - 05:53 .

[The Hierophant]

krul2k wrote...

Why should Bioware explain themselves on this subject? theres hundreds of say 18+ movies out there that dont show nudity yet have scenes where they could yet decide not to, why arent they under the microscope for not showing nudity? why is this even a big deal? why are ppl even bothered with this

Boredom?

[Wulfram]

If Bioware was scared of Fox News, why is Liara's ME3 scene no less raunchy than in ME1?

Considering it would cost resources to do (nude texture, animations etc) I tend to default to that as an explanation.

[Sylvianus]

Difficult to read the mind of the mass effect team to be honest lol. Dont know why they decided that Liara would be naked, while she could be with underwear like all the other characters ... It would have cost them less resources I guess ...

Modifié par Sylvianus, 05 avril 2013 - 06:12 .

[Wulfram]

Sylvianus wrote...

Difficult to read the mind of the mass effect team to be honest lol. Dont know why they decided that Liara would be naked, while she could be with underwear like all the other characters ... It would have cost them less resources I guess ...

With her new skin texture they couldn't just use a blue skinned human in underwear.  So I guess from a resource perspective it didn't matter whether she had underwear or not.

And it's probably easier to do the clever camera angles thing when you're just dealing with one scene and only one naked character per scene, rather than all the scenes that have undressed Shepard + other human in them.

[Renmiri1]

Wulfram wrote...

If Bioware was scared of Fox News, why is Liara's ME3 scene no less raunchy than in ME1?

Considering it would cost resources to do (nude texture, animations etc) I tend to default to that as an explanation.

Ya, me too.

I did a little mod for Skyrim, adding a Drell race. So let's see how much work was involved, even without adding any animation (Was early last year, no animation work for mods was available, I just used the defaults).

1) Body shape/ texture - Had to redo skin textures because if I used Argonians (lizards) the body would have tail and the face would have snout. Was easier to use humanoid like Dwemmer and just retint the body to green. 

Luckily someone in Deviant Art had done a Drell skin already for the Sims so I didn't have to start fron scratch. Was still a bit weird. Do Drell have nipples ? They shouldn't, they aren't mammals. The ME2 mesh is fully clothed so that aspect of it is something a modder has to headcanon and go for it. The DA skin had nipples and the body model looked really weird without it so I left it.

2) Head shape / texture - The distinctive Drell head ? I had to redo but was way too much work so I just used the Creation kit character builder to reduce ear size to zero and increase pupil size and eye shape to HUGE. Had to move the mouth / nose apart and set eyes apart, plus completely eliminate any chin. Had to elongate the neck and make it thicker since Drells have huge flaps of skin like a lizard under their chin. The distinctive drell face ? I had to hand paint it on the modded Dwemmer mesh head. Had problems with tinting versus the body texture, 3D model looke like a guy with a rubber mask

3) Clothing - I just reused the Dark Brotherhood / Thieves guild stuff. Looked close enough to Thane's black leather stuff.

4) Weapons shape / trexture - No guns available when I did the mod. I was the second person to add a gun mod to Steam. I reused the first guy's work with a dweemer rifle to do an RPG shooter looka alike. Reused the arrows / spells to make the bullets, and make explosion effects when a bullet hit something. Reused the Nightingale bow mesh / attachment points as base for my rpg, because the RPG shooter looked acceptable slung over the shoulder like a 2 handed bow.

5) Animation. Nothing available. I reused everythig that was there but needed something special for gun holstering and shooting.The holstered "bow" attachment point made a unsheated RPG look ok. Firing the RPG looked absolutely awful. Imagine someone drawing an arrow instead of clicking a trigger. UGH. I will redo it with a crossbow shooting animation when I get around to it.. If ever. 

6) Behavior - Was simple enough to make a new Drell companion, reusing a mod that was available the Nexus wiki. Also simple to make the companion "marriage material"

That alone took me a week. For free. Just for fun.

Would I spend yet another week creating bits for my drell, then making sex animations ? Nope. Why ? Not worth it.

Did make a custom loincloth for my favorite Drell though 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 05 avril 2013 - 06:46 .

[Angrywolves]

Remrmber the Grand Theft Auto controversy ? The company, Rockstar games not only survived it but continued with more GTA games, Red Dead Redemption and LA Noire. EA can only look at and wish they had those profits. Those games have sold well despite some of the subject. Maybe Gaider and EA should say to themselves " suck it up princess" and not let the righwing in the USA determine what Bioware can and cannot publish".

[Ninja Stan]

This discussion is no longer productive.

End of line.