109 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

TOR can be played completely solo, including many Flashpoints. I also enjoyed The Foundry, though I am with CJ that the NPC in question is still alive. True, the vast majority of updates have been for m/p, but I was quite pleased being able to experience three of the storylines to 50th with solo play. And while the Ship Combat has its critics, I loved it; one of a very few such mini-games I have enjoyed in any game.

[Wullo]

I was expecting Bioware storytelling, and what I got instead was some interesting story bits buried under piles of rubbish MMO quests. If I could have done all 8 of the class story lines without the need to do the stupid grind quests to level up, I would have said that SWTOR is a good single player MMO xD

And I have to agree with FeralEwok who said it was mind-numbingly boring to travel on the planets.. and Hoth.. ooooh Hoth.. that was the part where me and my friend quit the game it just got so dull.

Guess I was not looking for another Wow but a multiplayer RPG..

Modifié par Wullo, 27 mars 2013 - 02:00 .

[Elhanan]

If Hoth is the ice planet, that remains one of my favorites for exploration. Brutally cold, high winds, etc gave me the immersive experience I desired w/o the need for micro-managing survival rules. And some of the high end quests were quite challenging.

Still do not get all this grinding talk; never felt this during all of my play, though the combat mechanics were somewhat difficult for me. I must have some sort of record for deaths and respawns; should have a medical center with my Family name somewhere....

[DeathScepter]

Belyn wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Belyn wrote...
I play it because its Star Wars.

Originally, that was the only reason why I even paid for a MMO, breaking my one rule. However, I got bored after a couple of months due to all the grinding.

Did you play alone or with others?

spirosz wrote...
God, what the did to Revan. Why Bioware.

The Foundry is my favorite flashpoint. They did such a great job with his last lines. He quotes Malak. Loved it! Oh man. It was so great seeing Revan. 

Not every one would agree with about that point.  To Many, Revan seem OOC concerning a potential genocide of the Sith Empire. True it is that the Sith Empire needs to be defeated, the question is how? Also Bioware doesn't need Revan or the Jedi Exile to attract players to TOR. As long as the stories are the Bioware standards, Bioware fans will come to TOR regardless and tell their friends. Sometimes a good loyal following can be a good thing if your product is good and the loyal following will spread the word.

[Hainkpe]

fainmaca wrote...

As for the MP side of things... Story content should not be blocked off just because you aren't super-pro, or don't personally know enough people to get a group together that you can have fun with.

I responded to the part that seems rather futile. Playing an MMO alone, and disagreeing that group content should be made to be solo'd. I don't agree. It's a group activity. It should not be modified to allow solo play. That's my opinion. Too many people skip through entire flashpoints to grind gear yet complain about having to skip in the first place. Got into many a debate about grinding gear to play a game to complain about grinding gear. Circular argument. 

The game was created for the masses and it won't be individualized to suit personal tastes. You can always protest by not paying or playing. There will be people like me who will play the group content in a group and enjoy it because its a social activity. 

[Hainkpe]

DeathScepter wrote...

Not every one would agree with about that point.  To Many, Revan seem OOC concerning a potential genocide of the Sith Empire. True it is that the Sith Empire needs to be defeated, the question is how? Also Bioware doesn't need Revan or the Jedi Exile to attract players to TOR. As long as the stories are the Bioware standards, Bioware fans will come to TOR regardless and tell their friends. Sometimes a good loyal following can be a good thing if your product is good and the loyal following will spread the word.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me. In fact my husband and best friend disagree and dislike the outcome of Revan's story, I am of the faction that I think it's great. We exist. Just like those that like the ending of ME3. I disliked ME3s ending but my husband loved it. Irregardless, it was outside of our control on how the story was told. 

Many play SWTOR because its Star Wars, not because of Bioware. If people love the universe, they will share their experience and that will draw people as well. Social engineering at its finest. 

[Hainkpe]

OdanUrr wrote...
Was that directed at me? I ask because I didn't see a quote.

It was more of a general response as its a common complaint on BSN. It's not unique to BSN but it is rather more present than not. 

[OdanUrr]

Belyn wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...
Was that directed at me? I ask because I didn't see a quote.

It was more of a general response as its a common complaint on BSN. It's not unique to BSN but it is rather more present than not. 

Well, Bioware did say you could solo it so I was disappointed to find that you couldn't. And it does feel like a SP story padded out with countless fighting.

[eroeru]

^ If *only* the fights were interesting and engaging...

[Cainhurst Crow]

What's wrong with TOR is that the free to play mode has much less features than the payed mode, a little more so than most free to play vs payed modes for other mmo's. That and many people judgeing this game have no real knowledge of what mmo's are like, and so try to judge this game with traditional rpg criteria and gameing criteria, most of the none in depth ones at least.

But if I were to really take a guess, I'd say the three main reasons it's criticized so harshly is that...

1. It's made by EAware, so it must be bad. This routes into the ME3 ending hate and general hate for bioware becoming highly mainstream in gaming communities.

2. This game isn't KOTOR 3, and that makes a lot of people pissed off. Plus it has cannon from the previous 2 games and sort of cannonizes revan and the exile, and thus throws more fuel on the fire.

3. It's an MMO made by a company that didn't make MMO's, and thus there was a lot of stumbling in the early part of the games life. Many remember this and judge everything on that. Not to mention this game was given a death sentence by the mainstream media sites of gaming by being labeled as a "WOW Killer" by everyone but bioware, I believe anyway. High expectations, thy name is hype.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 27 mars 2013 - 06:42 .

[eroeru]

As to (2) and (3) - Bioware (EA) didn't know what they wanted from the game themselves. Or at least it seemed so with them having a flaunty and wobbly first year.

Yet it's the most important thing for making a good game - a largely unified real vision and desire to make a good game.

Not a marketable game (which as far as I can tell was EA's one and only desire)...

Modifié par eroeru, 27 mars 2013 - 06:51 .

[Elhanan]

OdanUrr wrote...

Well, Bioware did say you could solo it so I was disappointed to find that you couldn't. And it does feel like a SP story padded out with countless fighting.

But it can be played solo. While not every Quest, Flashpoint, or Warzone may be completed, the characters can still finish their storylines and reach max w/o the need for m/p assistance. Now, I personally cannot play a melee character well enough to advance them, but I know that it is viable for me to use ranged characters.

[eroeru]

^ It'd take grind. Hence it certainly isn't very soloable.

[Elhanan]

eroeru wrote...

^ It'd take grind. Hence it certainly isn't very soloable.

TOR was my first MMO, so I may not be getting the expression exactly, but I encountered little grinding at all for my three top characters. I cannot recall having to hunt the same targets repeatedly, though some quests encountered did require backtracking issues over those same areas with my Trooper on one city planet, but this was an exception.
 
I actually appreciated the reasonable limits on sub-quests which appeared to efficiently state how many kills were needed for a small bonus if you were questing in an area, and a vast number of these were optional. If one wished the bonus awards and loot they were available, but cannot recall ever forced to do these.

[Morroian]

eroeru wrote...

^ It'd take grind. Hence it certainly isn't very soloable.

Grinding has nothing to do with whether its soloable or not. The story is completely soloable unlike say Guild Wars 2 where they gated the ending in a 5 man dungeon.

[eroeru]

Notice the word "very". It certainly has to do with soloing - a single player experience usually doesn't have those mechanics - main quests/storylines are doable without side missions nor long hours of repetitive exping simply for the sake of progress through the game.

Modifié par eroeru, 27 mars 2013 - 10:22 .

[OdanUrr]

I found that in order to progress the main campaign you needed to up your XP quite a bit. Even if you complete any and all side quests it still won't be enough, and you'll have to at least play Heroics+2 and maybe +4, which more often than not require team work. While this can be a bit of a problem, I got tired of being forced to play all the side quests in my eternal search for XP. After a while, I simply wanted to play the main campaign missions only, but you can't.

[Maverick827]

There is no grinding required to reach max level/finish your class story in SWTOR.

[eroeru]

Maybe that's the case for subscribers. Not F2p nor "preferred status".

And even so, by doing only main quest line I really doubt you'd achieve max level. Those grindy side missions are required.

Actually, I'm fairly certain of it. I know of subscribers who have finished lots of quests and get killed quickly on Alderaan.

Modifié par eroeru, 27 mars 2013 - 10:50 .

[Hainkpe]

As a sub you have the use of legacy unlocks that increase XP for just about everything. Now with F2P you can buy short term XP boost buffs. Now you can get through your class missions with a high level of XP with little effort. But that's for subs. F2Ps have a different perspective. They have to buy everything a sub gets, piece by piece.

Really, the class missions do not require grinding. There are a few missions on each planet that are very interesting. One sure fire way to get additional XP as well as good drops is to do the bonus series. Those missions are good and I've done each one multiple times. Also flashpoints and PvP help augment gaining XP. Many times you have to look at different avenues to level versus just one method but most of those issues have been buffed for subs.

[Elhanan]

OdanUrr wrote...

I found that in order to progress the main campaign you needed to up your XP quite a bit. Even if you complete any and all side quests it still won't be enough, and you'll have to at least play Heroics+2 and maybe +4, which more often than not require team work. While this can be a bit of a problem, I got tired of being forced to play all the side quests in my eternal search for XP. After a while, I simply wanted to play the main campaign missions only, but you can't.

Personally, I played several of the Heroics+2, but skipped the +4's unless the quest was appealing for some storyline. These had to be done several lvls above the recommended lvl and offered little reward other than information; same goes for the Flashpoints. Personally, I flew Space Missions which appeared to offer plenty of experience to make up the difference.

[Elhanan]

eroeru wrote...

Maybe that's the case for subscribers. Not F2p nor "preferred status".

And even so, by doing only main quest line I really doubt you'd achieve max level. Those grindy side missions are required.

Actually, I'm fairly certain of it. I know of subscribers who have finished lots of quests and get killed quickly on Alderaan.

There are plenty of deadly quests on Alderaan; returned there often as it is one of the better planets for exploration.

No grinding is required.

[eroeru]

Grinding is encouraged.

Let me edit that bit:
Even the main story line is feels more often like grinding without any purpose whatsoever. It's hardcoded into the game.

+ You get a few levels above enemies, you'll pulverize them, they won't do *any* damage. You're a level or few below, you'll get pulverized. The players I talked about, myself included, know their game - and they've quested extensively. Yet they still had many many difficulties with advancing to higher ground whilst bearing repetition.

Modifié par eroeru, 28 mars 2013 - 12:59 .

[Homebound]

not enough sex scenes and nudity tbh.

[Elhanan]

eroeru wrote...

Grinding is encouraged.

Let me edit that bit:
Even the main story line is feels more often like grinding without any purpose whatsoever. It's hardcoded into the game. You get a few levels above enemies, you'll pulverize them, they won't do *any* damage. You're a level or few below, you'll get pulverized. The players I talked about, myself included, know their game - and they've quested extensively. Yet they still had many many difficulties with advancing to higher ground whilst bearing repetition.

While I agree that the game can be challenging, that is preferential to being a breeze, and it is far from impossible as this Twitchless One has done it. That said, this is not grinding; nor does one have to do so to overcome said obstacles.