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[Ossobuco]

A friend and I are attempting to take a more detailed look at the samples of Elvish language found in-game (both Origins and DAII, though they mostly overlap). She's a student of linguistics and I'm a lapsed classicist, so obviously language is near and dear to our hearts, and we hope to approach this as academically as we can. We have a few questions about things that we haven't been able to determine on our own so far that we hope will point us in the right direction as we pore over our data. 

First, how much of a translation convention is used in the game? That is to say, when we hear English spoken in-game, can we safely assume that the characters are speaking "Common"? Or is it possible that, e.g. in the Dalish origin, the characters are in actuality speaking Elvish, either partially or totally (but in order for the player to understand it, it's almost all presented in English)? Codex entries state that the Elvish language is used in a very limited fashion, but in The Stolen Throne, the elves appear to speak it fluently...

I recall that the translation of "Suledin" has been stated to be very loose. What about the translation of "In Uthenera"? Is it meant to be literal? How word-for-word is it--that is, do the words "emma ir abelas" correlate one-to-one with "now" "I" (am filled with) "sorrow", or does the translation change the word order (for differences in grammatical structure, better flow in English, etc)?

Somewhat more technically, are Elvish words inflected--that is, are verbs conjugated (to express tense, person, number, etc) or nouns declined (singular/plural forms, or grammatical cases)? 

Finally, the elvhen ghosts in the ruins in the Brecilian Forest. Their speech bears limited resemblance to extant Elvish, but it's hard to draw any specific correlations or make good guesses at how the language may have shifted. Can we confirm that they are speaking a form of Elvish (perhaps an ancient dialect, or one influenced by Tevene or perhaps another language entirely)? Is there any chance of getting a translation for their speech?

We do have more specific questions about individual words and phrases, but I'll leave those be for now... thank you very much in advance!

Modifié par Ossobuco, 25 mars 2013 - 10:03 .

[TEWR]

First, how much of a translation convention is used in the game? That is to say, when we hear English spoken in-game, can we safely assume that the characters are speaking "Common"? Or is it possible that, e.g. in the Dalish origin, the characters are in actuality speaking Elvish, either partially or totally (but in order for the player to understand it, it's almost all presented in English)? Codex entries state that the Elvish language is used in a very limited fashion, but in The Stolen Throne, the elves appear to speak it fluently...

In the games, the English you hear is indeed the common language while the Elven language spoken is the Elven language. It is not Elven displayed audibly as English.

Finally, the elvhen ghosts in the ruins in the Brecilian Forest. Their speech bears limited resemblance to extant Elvish, but it's hard to draw any specific correlations or make good guesses at how the language may have shifted. Can we confirm that they are speaking a form of Elvish (perhaps an ancient dialect, or one influenced by Tevene or perhaps another language entirely)? Is there any chance of getting a translation for their speech?

The DA wiki has a translation of it, which roughly boils down to the following IIRC:

1) Boy: Mama? Mama, where are you? You told me to meet you in this place.

2) Woman (possibly the boy's mother): Who are you? Why are you here?! No, get out! This place is sacred! You're desecrating my tomb!

Is it (In Uthenera) meant to be literal?

More or less I think. Some might come off as sounding weird in a literal translation, but I'm not certain.

Emma Ir Abelas translates to "I am very sorrowful", in a certain translation. Emma being "I am", ir being "very", and "abelas" being sorrow. Since "I am very sorrow" -- the literal translation -- makes no sense, it would be best to make it "I am very sorrowful".

Whether that sounds weird to the ear or not I dunno. Admittedly, I'm not a dialect expert.

[Corker]

A lot of fanwork in this area can be found on the wiki. Katie's Best Guess at Elvhen Dictionary is another source, with more speculation about the linguistics.

[mousestalker]

On a related note, most if not all, of the elven names in game are variants on Hebrew. Shani, for example means red. Tabriss is the name of an angel as is Mahariel.

[Ossobuco]

 I am hoping to work independently from the wiki except where it cites sources, since a lot of it looks to be independent research or speculation (either that or it is not cited--and if there are sources, I would love to have those), and I'd rather not base my speculation on more of the same. It has been very useful for gathering citations and compiling data, though.

"Emma Ir Abelas translates to "I am very sorrowful", in a certain translation. Emma being "I am", ir being "very", and "abelas" being sorrow. Since "I am very sorrow" -- the literal translation -- makes no sense, it would be best to make it "I am very sorrowful". 

Do you have a source for that translation being literal? I have only ever encountered the translation "now I am filled with sorrow", both in the Codex entry for the poem, and in DAII when a romanced Merrill tells Hawke that "ir abelas" means "I am filled with sorrow".

Modifié par Ossobuco, 25 mars 2013 - 08:58 .