232 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Liara has a bug in ME1, which means that the ruder of the "not interested" replies when she says she's interested in you still leaves you in a relationship.

[TheRaj]

SongstressKitsune wrote...

I would love gentler letdowns; however, I've never had a problem with ninjamancing. All the romance dialouge seemed pretty obvious to me.

Okay, I accidentally slept with Traynor in ME3, but that was because I clicked away from the game for a second, clicked back, and in the process accidentally hit the "lesbian shower sex" dialouge option. This was only a problem because I wanted to romance Kaidan; I reloaded and did the date with him before any other squadmate interactions and all was well c:

I too just, er, accidentally selected 'lesbian shower sex'. Oh wait, that was Google.

[frankf43]

Not to do with romance but wiould have loved the option to say irrelevant to the Arishok at least once.

[-TC1989-]

krul2k wrote...

all you need to do is tell liara you dont think of her like that an hey presto but whatever

how about more options to tell companions you dont like them hehehe, you know like the way you could tell morrigan she was a ****, id a just once JUST ONCE would have liked the option to turn round an just say STFU WILL YOU to Anders

Liara: Shepard you are so powerful, can I stay in you quarters?

Shepard: I really am busy Liara, we'll talk later

Liara: Oh, well I'm always here for you... I really care about you...

Shepard: Liara you're a good friend but I don't like you that way, I'm sorry

Liara: ....... Shepard I can make you the happiest person in the world

Shepard: DAMN IT LIARA, WHAT PART OF JUST BEING FRIENDS DON'T YOU GET?!!

Liara: Goddess Shepard, we should talk alone in private, I know you're stressed just because of the Reapers, but I'm always here for you.... always.

Shepard: ......Damn it where is that Renegade interruption?


Sorry thinking out loud...

Modifié par -TC1989-, 25 mars 2013 - 09:35 .

[Gallimatia]

Tinxa wrote...

SongstressKitsune wrote...

I would love gentler letdowns; however, I've never had a problem with ninjamancing. All the romance dialouge seemed pretty obvious to me.

Okay, I accidentally slept with Traynor in ME3, but that was because I clicked away from the game for a second, clicked back, and in the process accidentally hit the "lesbian shower sex" dialouge option.

Traynor dialogue was excellent imo. My character offered she can use the shower like a woman would for another woman  and then just sat obliviously on the sofa  

That option is only available if you're in a relationship with someone else. The conversations that can start a relationship in ME3 have two 'just friends' options only one of which is available if Shepard is single because the other has to make room for the 'yes' option. You can't very well have three options present at once!

In the case of Traynor only the "renegade" no is available if Shepard is single and in the case of Liara only the "paragon" no. With Liara picking one rejection option over the other changes later dialogue so it's especially strange that the less gentle one is hidden away. I imagine there would be fewer complaints about forced friendship if it wasn't. I mean Shepard only has to be friends with Liara if he or she is single. 

Modifié par Gallimatia, 25 mars 2013 - 09:49 .

[Firky]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Lines that lead to romance in DA2 and Inquisition are marked with different icons. Don't click the hearts, and you will avoid accidental romances.

Except if you accidentally click the heart, in haste, because it's where the olive branch should be and end up sleeping with Merrill. Fenris wasn't cool about that.

(PS. Not that I actually wanted to romance Merrill, but she's, by far, my favourite DA character - with Sten as a close second. Thanks so much for writing Merrill the way you did, Mary! I think she's absolutely brilliant - especially after being friends with her the first time and rivals the second - much appreciation.)

[Monica21]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Lines that lead to romance in DA2 and Inquisition are marked with different icons. Don't click the hearts, and you will avoid accidental romances.

I'll throw my lot in with people who aren't fans of the hearts. There are a lot of things you can say to people that end up unintentionally leading them on. The same should be true for conversation trees. It shouldn't be so blatantly obvious that "THIS WILL LEAD TO SEX."

[Hazegurl]

krul2k wrote...

all you need to do is tell liara you dont think of her like that an hey presto but whatever

how about more options to tell companions you dont like them hehehe, you know like the way you could tell morrigan she was a ****, id a just once JUST ONCE would have liked the option to turn round an just say STFU WILL YOU to Anders

Told Liara that, still got romanced. Seriously, you can tell her you are not interested and she will still romance you. The only way to truly avoid it, at least in my games, is to pick her up last and don't talk to her. Which works fine for me.

I would LOVE to have the option to tell companions how much they suck. The game sadly assumes you have respect for them or something. I wanted to call Aveline a judgemental b*tch. I would love telling Anders he needs to shut his trap about mages. He was driving me out of my mage mind.  I would also like the option of dumping a companion and finding a brand new one somewhere to replace them.

[Scarlet Rabbi]

So, more of these 'love' icons coming in DA3, huh? Christ, why even have a little snippet of what your going to say then? Get rid of all those pesky words and just replace them with nothing but bright, colorful pictures, so as not to strain the poor brains of all the lovely consumers these icons are so cleary designed to attract and appease. "Dialogue" wheel my ...

Might wanna rethink the title then. 'Inquisition' might be just a little too big of a bump in the road for the 'masses' tires to go over; way too many syllables.

Modifié par Scarlet Rabbi, 25 mars 2013 - 11:24 .

[Allan Schumacher]

There's a correct way, and an incorrect way, to register your disappointment.

Insulting the intelligence of people that want different things than you is not the way.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 25 mars 2013 - 11:27 .

[Korusus]

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

So, more of these 'love' icons coming in DA3, huh? Christ, why even have a little snippet of what your going to say then? Get rid of all those pesky words and just replace them with nothing but bright, colorful pictures, so as not to strain the poor brains of all the lovely consumers these icons are so cleary designed to attract and appease. "Dialogue" wheel my ...
 

I have to say I agree.  There is no functional difference between having a paraphrase and having just an icon.  Especially considering how absolutely useless the paraphrasing was in DA2.  

Now that I think about it, I don't know why they don't do that.  Not that I want to give them ideas, but they already have embraced the handholding and dumb-down nature of the icons...why not go all the way with it?  They don't want us to read the lines before they are delivered, and they dont' want to abandon the wheel or the tones so...

Oh god..I wonder if that isn't what they are doing and Gaider has been alluding to it 

For real though, can anyone answer that question?  What is the difference between just having a big, glowing gold heart VS. a paraphrase that says "I love you" with a big glowing gold heart?

Modifié par Korusus, 25 mars 2013 - 11:30 .

[sandalisthemaker]

I avoided talking to the women too much in ME and ME2 for this very reason. DA2 was much better in regards to ninjamancing though.

[obsessedwjpn]

I have to agree with Allan. Korusus and Scarlet Rabbi, please refrain from using insults. Just because you don't feel the game is up to your "standards" does not mean it is dumbed down in any way. Besides, when DA: O came out people complained all the time about romances happening when they specifically told the character "no." The icons are a way for that confusion to be avoided. So Bioware doesn't make icons and people are angry with ninjamancing. Bioware makes icons and people say it is hand-holding too much. Bioware just can't win with you guys. 

Modifié par obsessedwjpn, 25 mars 2013 - 11:37 .

[Korusus]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

I have to agree with Allan. Korusus and Scarlet Rabbi, please refrain from using insults. Just because you don't feel the game is up to your "standards" does not mean it is dumbed down in any way. Besides, when DA: O came out people complained all the time about romances happening when they specifically told the character "no." The icons are a way for that confusion to be avoided. So Bioware doesn't make icons and people are angry with ninjamancing. Bioware makes icons and people say it is hand-holding too much. Bioware just can't win with you guys. 

Calling the golden heart icon dumbed down is an insult?  Alright, I admit it...I'm insulting the icon.

I do agree with Scarlet Rabbi's point, why even have the paraphrase?  Especially if the paraphrase itself is misleading half the time.

(BioWare actually did win with me in DA:O, very much so...I never had a problem with ninjamancing in the same way I have no problem with ninjamancing in real life, it's quite flattering).

Modifié par Korusus, 25 mars 2013 - 11:42 .

[obsessedwjpn]

Korusus wrote...

Calling the golden heart icon dumbed down is an insult?  Alright, I admit it...I'm insulting the icon.

I do agree with Scarlet Rabbi's point, why even have the paraphrase?  Especially if the paraphrase itself is misleading half the time.

(BioWare actually did win with me in DA:O, very much so...I never had a problem with ninjamancing in the same way I have no problem with ninjamancing in real life, it's quite flattering).

No, I didn't mean you were insulting an icon. You can dislike the icon all you like. I understand that people were and are disappointed in the icons and paraphasing. I thought you were continuing in the same writing vein as Scarlet Rabbi who basically called the people who enjoyed the game or those aspects of it dumb or not at his/her level.

I agree the paraphasing in DA2 was a bit off but for some reason it never bothered me like it does for everyone else. I do like the heart icon idea, even if they ditch the other ones, because it helps to clarify you are starting a romance which is nice seeing as falling into one with a game character is not my cup of tea. 

I apologize for misreading the intent in your post. You can dislike on DA2 all you like, I just want people to be fair and understanding to those who both like and dislike the game. It isn't like one group of people is right or wrong. 

Have you been ninjamanced in real life? lol

[mousestalker]

Maybe they could implement an area in game. The idea is that if there is a character with whom you would rather not have a romance, you visit the special area and any current romance is squished and all future romances are disallowed.

We could call it... the friendzone.

[Korusus]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

Korusus wrote...

Calling the golden heart icon dumbed down is an insult?  Alright, I admit it...I'm insulting the icon.

I do agree with Scarlet Rabbi's point, why even have the paraphrase?  Especially if the paraphrase itself is misleading half the time.

(BioWare actually did win with me in DA:O, very much so...I never had a problem with ninjamancing in the same way I have no problem with ninjamancing in real life, it's quite flattering).

No, I didn't mean you were insulting an icon. You can dislike the icon all you like. I understand that people were and are disappointed in the icons and paraphasing. I thought you were continuing in the same writing vein as Scarlet Rabbi who basically called the people who enjoyed the game or those aspects of it dumb or not at his/her level.

I agree the paraphasing in DA2 was a bit off but for some reason it never bothered me like it does for everyone else. I do like the heart icon idea, even if they ditch the other ones, because it helps to clarify you are starting a romance which is nice seeing as falling into one with a game character is not my cup of tea. 

I apologize for misreading the intent in your post. You can dislike on DA2 all you like, I just want people to be fair and understanding to those who both like and dislike the game. It isn't like one group of people is right or wrong. 

Have you been ninjamanced in real life? lol

Sorry no, I didn't mean to imply that I agreed with the tone of the message, just the hyperbole (ironic considering our current topic).

What I love about Dragon Age: Origins lack of icons is the fact that just because you say something (much as in real life) you cannot predict someone's response to that (much as in real life).  And (as in real life) you can't always gauge what is going to make someone attracted to you.  Sometimes you don't necessarily have to be trying.  Dragon Age: Origins "ninjamancing" always felt more like that to me.  And yes, it does sometimes happen that you have that awkwardness of "Oh, I'm not really attracted to you...sorry."

With Dragon Age 2, all of that goes out the window.  The golden heart is a metagame solution.  It solves a problem that doesn't necessarily need to be solved.  I hate it.  Not only do I hate it, but I don't understand why even have the paraphrase if the meaning is conveyed in the icon.

I hate all of the icons.  I want to know what I'm going to say and I don't want to be able to predict how the NPC is going to respond.  The icons remove all doubt.  Metagaming. 

Modifié par Korusus, 25 mars 2013 - 11:59 .

[Korusus]

Filament wrote...

But the icons don't say anything about how the other character is going to respond. It strictly tells you the tone of your character's delivery. If they were so predictive then there would have been an Aveline romance, because she had heart icons too. You just know how NPCs are going to respond because you have more information about what your own character is going to say, together with a general idea of the other character and how they respond to things.

It seems like you've displaced your anger toward the NPCs being possibly too 'receptive' onto the icons which don't have anything to do with it.

Both are a problem really.  You can't have one without the other.  Knowing that you can never fail at the romance if you have the golden heart icon there certainly doesn't help.  That's blasphemy to someone like me who cut his teeth on the romances in Baldur's Gate 2.

I see what you're saying about Aveline in the sense that she shoots you down, but I think that's the exception that proves the rule.  If it's a romanceable NPC and you have a golden heart, as long as you hit the golden heart it's like hitting an "I Win" button.

Modifié par Korusus, 26 mars 2013 - 12:09 .

[Firky]

I've been ninjamanced in real life.

I don't know about icons. There were definitely times in TW2 that I was totally shocked by what Geralt said. I found that less in DA2.

But, at the same time, I thought the hearts, in particular, were too blatant. But, right with the Aveline thing, they're signifying player intent, so blatancy shouldn't be an issue, should it? (It still felt too obvious, to me, somehow.)

More importantly, is "blatancy" a word?

(Edit: Oh phew, yes it is.)

Modifié par Firky, 26 mars 2013 - 12:14 .

[robertthebard]

Plaintiff wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

I don't understand ninjamancers. The game gives you a pretty clear idea you're heading into a romance.

Not always. Leliana for instance thinks you're committing to her when you ask her about her relation to Marjolaine.and say you're sorry it ended the way it did, or that she didn't deserve Leliana. I must be hitting on friends all the time if those are common come-ons =)

Telling Morrigan that she's beautiful is another one that I think is odd.

Not being into women myself, I wouldn't know, so I'm forced to ask: is there some unwritten rule that says only girlfriends are allowed to be beautiful and every other woman in the world is a lumpy bag of garbage with a fish head?

Only if you ask your current GF...   

In Morrigan's case, I can kind of understand what's going on, though, since she's really socially awkward anyway, and isn't used to a lot of kind words being thrown at her w/out some kind of motivation.  I did get ninjamanced by Leliana once, but I can point at the exact moment that I said the exact wrong thing that did it.  I was just a little too supportive in one chain of dialog, and bam, I'm in.  The funny thing, with Morrigan, "Get a thicker blanket" was apparently a major turn on...

[Allan Schumacher]

Both are a problem really. You can't have one without the other.

Yes you can, as evidenced by Aveline (as pointed out earlier).

I see what you're saying about Aveline in the sense that she shoots you down, but I think that's the exception that proves the rule. If it's a romanceable NPC and you have a golden heart, as long as you hit the golden heart it's like hitting an "I Win" button.

That phrase gets misused so much that it's quickly becoming one of my larger pet peeves on the Internet.

http://en.wikipedia....proves_the_rule

"The exception [that] proves the rule" is a frequently misused English phrase. The original meaning of this phrase is that the presence of an exception applying to a specific case establishes ("proves") that a general rule exists. For example, a sign that says "parking prohibited on Sundays" (the exception) "proves" that parking is allowed on the other six days of the week (the rule).

Aveline is the exception that undermines your argument entirely. The issue you have is how we use the icons. Icons exist purely to provide extra insight into how the line will be delivered. That you're diplomatic does not mean that you will be well received. That you are aggressive does not mean that it will lead to a fight (nevermind we're reevaluating how we go forward with this).

If you find that the icons can only exist as metaknowledge for how the game reacts to your choices, that's an issue for how we've created our content (that is, we don't deviate how the NPC reacts). This has nothing to do with the presence of an icon.

[Iakus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...


Aveline is the exception that undermines your argument entirely. The issue you have is how we use the icons. Icons exist purely to provide extra insight into how the line will be delivered. That you're diplomatic does not mean that you will be well received. That you are aggressive does not mean that it will lead to a fight (nevermind we're reevaluating how we go forward with this).

If you find that the icons can only exist as metaknowledge for how the game reacts to your choices, that's an issue for how we've created our content (that is, we don't deviate how the NPC reacts). This has nothing to do with the presence of an icon.

I think the problem here was that Aveline was one of the few exceptions where a heart icon was available to a non-LI.  She's also the most prominent since you had a lot oopportunities throughout her Act 2 personal quest.    I know there were a couple of others Hawke could flirt with, but for the most part, seeing that particular icon pop up indicated "potential LI here!"

I suppose this could be remedied by allowing for players to be more flirtatious to NPCs, proving flirt (or "heart") responses more often.  Maybe.  ::shrug::