Exile Isan wrote...
I used James a lot. James and Garrus and my Vanguard what an awesome team.
Also, just to move away from logic into the ******-up parallel realm: what the Council did the Krogan is very similar to what the Reapers are doing to life in each cycle. They're both trying to keep a population in check which trying to preserve what they feel is valuable about that life.SimonTheFrog wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
Bullsh*t. If you roleplay, you decide according to in-world logic, and that tells you curing the genophage carries a high risk. There is precedence after all.SimonTheFrog wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
With Wreav in charge (the high percentage of that scenario triggered my comment), yes it was. Even with Wrex in charge, it's a high-risk gamble. Can you really trust the krogan to keep their population in check?George Costanza wrote...
Curing the Genophage was against all common sense?
Lol, you can't apply real-world estimations to the Krogans.
The Krogans will multiply as fast as BioWare wants them to.
The player has to decide what feels best with-in the context of a BioWare game, not with-in the context of real-world ethics.
Applying the Krogan dilemma to real-world ethics doesn't work, because they are a product of imagination. There is no way to know "what they gonna do in the future".
If you decide on the reasoning "This is a Bioware game, and that means whatever I feel best about will likely have a good outcome" you're missing the point. Also, yes, Bioware tends to write things that way, but the plain fact that things most emphatically don't work that way in any kind of human-appropriate decision-making environment makes such a reasoning meaningless. Plainly, the feel-good morality presented by Bioware in their stories is pandering to a delusion. The only odd thing is that they chose the ending to change that stance.
I agree to the "in-world logic". But the future behavior of the Krogan race doesn't depend on logic, even with-in the ME universe. They have a psyche and emotional scars but they also have a brain (several in fact). Whether ratio or emotio will get the better of them can't be predicted by "logic".
It's an unknown.
So, yeah, risk-management.
But like i said in a later post, our current ethical approach to crimes that are not yet done is to not punish them in advance. Hence, the genophage is an unethical persecution of a crime that has not yet been commited.
That's why it feels correct to heal the Krogans.
In this case, as in most other cases too, BioWare is aligning to most western moral systems. Which is the easy thing to do as it won't alienate the players.
But also, many situations and dialogs in ME are extremely simple, dull and gamey. But I think this is a different problem completely
Ieldra2 wrote...
With Wreav in charge (the high percentage of that scenario triggered my comment), yes it was. Even with Wrex in charge, it's a high-risk gamble. Can you really trust the krogan to keep their population in check?George Costanza wrote...
Curing the Genophage was against all common sense?
llandwynwyn wrote...
I read a bit of this thread and it seems people forgot that Wrex died 60% on ME1. So it's possible even some ME1 players didn't meet him in 3.
Modifié par animedreamer, 26 mars 2013 - 04:17 .
llandwynwyn wrote...
I read a bit of this thread and it seems people forgot that Wrex died 60% on ME1. So it's possible even some ME1 players didn't meet him in 3.
Bleachrude wrote...
But in such a scenario (didn't import, blow off most scanning and sidemissions), wouldn't the default be Control though?AlanC9 wrote...
That threw me at first, but I can see Liara's rate being real. A player who didn't import and blew off all scanning missions would need to do a bit under half of all sidequests to avoid squadmates getting vaporized. That's playing a perfect game, and I'd bet that such a player probably wouldn't play a perfect game. (Maybe just do enough scans for the achievement, though, so it might balance out)
So maybe a very large percentage of players played a low-EMS game. I can see Liara being overrepresented on what's billed as the final mission -- popular/LI/Crucible expert. So she'd die a lot.
I thought the "fresh, no import" game had you SAVE the collector base which automatically meant that in a low EMS run, you would only have the option for Control.
Barquiel wrote...
I always thought that all characters die if you have a low enough EMS that your two squaddies die during the beam run. At least you don't get a memorial scene...implying everyone on the Normandy is dead. The other characters just die off-screen, I suppose. I think it's some gameplay statistic, that's the only explanation imo.
FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Wait a second...Liara can only die if you have low EMS and take her on the final run for the beam. If her survival rate is 54%, does that mean 46% of all players did both (i.e. take Liara and have low EMS)? That seems bizarre.
animedreamer wrote...
llandwynwyn wrote...
I read a bit of this thread and it seems people forgot that Wrex died 60% on ME1. So it's possible even some ME1 players didn't meet him in 3.
i believe what that statistic is showing is that 64% of the players either didn't play ME2 Genesis and chose to save wrex on Virmire, or that a large amount of people just started the trilogy at ME3 and never bothered playing 1 or 2.
Vigilant111 wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
With Wreav in charge (the high percentage of that scenario triggered my comment), yes it was. Even with Wrex in charge, it's a high-risk gamble. Can you really trust the krogan to keep their population in check?George Costanza wrote...
Curing the Genophage was against all common sense?
It is not a thing for you to judge personally
Can we really trust the humans to keep their population in check in our universe? Just think about the consequences when population growth is unchecked given ever-decreasing resources
AlanC9 wrote...
Barquiel wrote...
I always thought that all characters die if you have a low enough EMS that your two squaddies die during the beam run. At least you don't get a memorial scene...implying everyone on the Normandy is dead. The other characters just die off-screen, I suppose. I think it's some gameplay statistic, that's the only explanation imo.
So explain Kaidan's low rate. He's less fragile than Liara but dies more?
Modifié par Barquiel, 26 mars 2013 - 05:14 .
Bleachrude wrote...
Er...where are you getting that statistic from?
If you can reference it, it pretty much explains why only 36% of people meet Wrex.
AlanC9 wrote...
FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Wait a second...Liara can only die if you have low EMS and take her on the final run for the beam. If her survival rate is 54%, does that mean 46% of all players did both (i.e. take Liara and have low EMS)? That seems bizarre.
I agree it's bizarre. But other explanations for those numbers are even more bizarre.
animedreamer wrote...
llandwynwyn wrote...
I read a bit of this thread and it seems people forgot that Wrex died 60% on ME1. So it's possible even some ME1 players didn't meet him in 3.
i believe what that statistic is showing is that 64% of the players either didn't play ME2 Genesis and chose to save wrex on Virmire, or that a large amount of people just started the trilogy at ME3 and never bothered playing 1 or 2.
FlyingSquirrel wrote...
AlanC9 wrote...
FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Wait a second...Liara can only die if you have low EMS and take her on the final run for the beam. If her survival rate is 54%, does that mean 46% of all players did both (i.e. take Liara and have low EMS)? That seems bizarre.
I agree it's bizarre. But other explanations for those numbers are even more bizarre.
Yeah, I guess there's no other way it could happen. It just seems strange for a number of reasons - while I can understand skipping some of the sidequests, others are signposted pretty blatantly, so you'd have to skip a lot of them and/or never play MP to have your EMS low enough to kill the squadmates at the end. Plus, Liara is just one option out of anywhere from 3-7 possible squadmates, so I'm wondering why these low EMS players would be disproportionately picking her for the last mission.
I suppose players new to Mass Effect might tend to pick Liara because she has a little more "default" content than some of the other squadmates and is romanceable, but past that I can't really think of anything. I guess she's a decent choice against hordes of Reapers, combat-wise.
Getorex wrote...
Well, when I did the run for the beam I did choose a couple squadmates that I wouldn't mind having end up dead if I had somehow not managed to get enough EMS built up. I was pretty high and probably safe but just in case...so I took Vega and Javik. Both survived though a bug made Javik invisible. Looked funny having Shepard and then Vega carry an invisible person out of the battle zone...
Well, one could argue that Eve could try to make the situation better. If both Eve and Wrex are dead then of course the right thing to do is to sabotage the genophage.Sarcastic Tasha wrote...
Only 8% of people sabotaged the genophage cure? Why is the world so bloody paragon? I would say its because people don't want to shoot Mordin but considering most people didn't have Wrex and could therefore convince Mordin to go along with the plan that explanation doesn't make much sense.
No wonder there was no Morinth *sigh* the world is not yet renegade enough for such a woman.
FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Wait a second...Liara can only die if you have low EMS and take her on the final run for the beam. If her survival rate is 54%, does that mean 46% of all players did both (i.e. take Liara and have low EMS)? That seems bizarre.
Barquiel wrote...
AlanC9 wrote...
So explain Kaidan's low rate. He's less fragile than Liara but dies more?
I virmired Kaidan so I am not entirely sure how useful he is. But the ranking of the other squadmates makes sense.
James is a tank -> highest survival rate
Tali is really squishy -> lowest survival rate
And look at EDI's survival rate. It should be even lower if the statistic shows story deaths because she definitely dies in low EMS destroy.
Modifié par Hervoyl, 26 mars 2013 - 07:55 .
Hervoyl wrote...
FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Wait a second...Liara can only die if you have low EMS and take her on the final run for the beam. If her survival rate is 54%, does that mean 46% of all players did both (i.e. take Liara and have low EMS)? That seems bizarre.
Don't the majority of people not do sidequests? I know quite a few people who do a rush though these games - I'm fairly certain most of those are low EMS.
Modifié par FlyingSquirrel, 26 mars 2013 - 08:02 .
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