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[Han Shot First]

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

A point worth noting is that there is only one squad member who approves of Terra Firma's platform in ME1, and it isn't Ashley. It's Wrex.

. Ashley is a pro human who doesn't like pro-human groups.  Logic?

Terra Firma and Cerberus are pro human in the same way that the N-zi party was 'pro German.'

They are bigots. Ashley isn't.

. TIM isn't a bigot either.  He never even considered denying the alien squadmates acces to the Normandy. Ashley did.  So she's more bigoted than the Cerberus leader.......

TIM is willing to work with aliens if it furthers his own ends. That doesn't necessarily mean he views them as equals. Considering that TIM is the leader of Cerberus, and that Cerberus is both closely aligned with the Terra Firma party (which has a racist anti-alien platform) and heavily populated with racists, it seems to indicate that TIM at least shares some of their views. If he didn't he wouldn't be politically aligned with a racist political party and would seek to clean up the racist elements in his own organization. That he doesn't is a good indicator of what his actual views are.

TIM is also a manipulator. He wants Shepard to buy into Cerberus' bullsh-t, so he populates the Normandy with familiar faces, Cerberus personnel who aren't racist and who haven't taken part in unethical experiments or operations, and alien agents. The crew of the Normandy SR2 wasn't really representative of Cerberus as a whole, it was crew structured to put the best possible face of Cerberus forward in an attempt to manipulate Shepard into viewing Cerberus as merely misunderstood.

[kalasaurus]

mtmercydave09 wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

I just find the cerberus mistrust out of place considering how much Shepard bends over backwards for the alliance between 2 and 3 especially if you destroyed the collector base. The VS is the ONLY companion to mention from 1 to have that level of distrust and to have it carry over into 3 after saving the galaxy twice in one game is just dumb.

I agree, I think it's out of place and shouldn't have been part of the story in ME3.  I mean even with Ash once you finally get her back and go on the date with her, she tells you about her family which is pretty much similar to what she says in ME1.  It's like they had to reintroduce the VS's to us.

It should have been over with on Mars when the VS sees you shooting Cerberus soldiers.  The Coup was just a crappy way to extend the trust issue longer than it should have been.

Agreed.  They resolved their trust issues in the hospital (at least if Shepard's nice and visits), but then it just drags on into the Coup.  Extra points if Shepard's standing there with Garrus and Liara during the armed standoff <_<

Modifié par GlassElephant, 09 avril 2013 - 06:11 .

[Han Shot First]

mtmercydave09 wrote...


Ponytail would have been good during combat scenes, her hair down outside of it.

I never quite understood the complaints about Ashley's hair.

I always have her wear the heavier armor on missions, and it comes equipped wih a helmet. If you have Ashley wear the helmet, her hair isn't an issue.

[AresKeith]

mtmercydave09 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

I'm not sure the redesign of Ash in ME3 into being more "sexy" is really out of character for her. It's pretty well established that she has a girly side, so I can see her letting her hair down. It could also be a sign of her being more relaxed of where she is in her career, since she's not stuck as Gunnery Chief anymore and knows Shep is alive. Shep really is the one that keeps Ash going especially if you romance her.

I would have preferred a ponytail instead and they could have done better with her outfit too

Good point, her default blue suit wasn't terribly great in terms of armor, but once you get her back you can change her suit into more armor.

Ponytail would have been good during combat scenes, her hair down outside of it.

But her Alt appearances annoyed me in ME3, like seriously Bioware

[mtmercydave09]

Han Shot First wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...


Ponytail would have been good during combat scenes, her hair down outside of it.

I never quite understood the complaints about Ashley's hair.

I always have her wear the heavier armor on missions, and it comes equipped wih a helmet. If you have Ashley wear the helmet, her hair isn't an issue.

True, I guess I have it in my settings to have the squadmates not wear helmets so I could see Ash's face :innocent:.

I don't mind the hair down.  I wonder if in the next ME if they'll allow you to customize the squadmates hairstyles.  That would be pretty cool.

[mtmercydave09]

AresKeith wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

I'm not sure the redesign of Ash in ME3 into being more "sexy" is really out of character for her. It's pretty well established that she has a girly side, so I can see her letting her hair down. It could also be a sign of her being more relaxed of where she is in her career, since she's not stuck as Gunnery Chief anymore and knows Shep is alive. Shep really is the one that keeps Ash going especially if you romance her.

I would have preferred a ponytail instead and they could have done better with her outfit too

Good point, her default blue suit wasn't terribly great in terms of armor, but once you get her back you can change her suit into more armor.

Ponytail would have been good during combat scenes, her hair down outside of it.

But her Alt appearances annoyed me in ME3, like seriously Bioware

Yeah, there's so many ways Bioware screwed up Ash ever since ME1, it kind of sucks for Ash fans that stuck with her.

[AresKeith]

Han Shot First wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...


Ponytail would have been good during combat scenes, her hair down outside of it.

I never quite understood the complaints about Ashley's hair.

I always have her wear the heavier armor on missions, and it comes equipped wih a helmet. If you have Ashley wear the helmet, her hair isn't an issue.

I think in the military women if they have long hair needs to tie it up so it doesn't get in the way in combat

And Ashley is pretty much a hardcore military chick so it feels out of character when your on missions

[Iakus]

mtmercydave09 wrote...

I'm not sure the redesign of Ash in ME3 into being more "sexy" is really out of character for her. It's pretty well established that she has a girly side, so I can see her letting her hair down. It could also be a sign of her being more relaxed of where she is in her career, since she's not stuck as Gunnery Chief anymore and knows Shep is alive. Shep really is the one that keeps Ash going especially if you romance her.

The artbook explicitly says the redesign was to give her more "sex appeal"

I seriously facepalmed when I read it.

[Iakus]

Han Shot First wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...


Ponytail would have been good during combat scenes, her hair down outside of it.

I never quite understood the complaints about Ashley's hair.

I always have her wear the heavier armor on missions, and it comes equipped wih a helmet. If you have Ashley wear the helmet, her hair isn't an issue.

 Doesn't matter.  It'll still be there... waiting.

But seriously, no.  I don't consider putting a bucket on her head so I can't see her face an acceptable alternative.

WHich is why I downloaded a mod that gave her the old bun back.

Now I just need one for the uniform.

[AresKeith]

@mtmercydave09 I actually quite like her character next to Liara, Tali, and Miranda

but your right about Bioware screwing up with her which is causing what's happening now with people calling her racist

[Steelcan]

mtmercydave09 wrote...

It makes you a bigot to be concerned about giving anyone other than a human access to the mostly highly advanced ship in the Alliance?  I think not.  It just makes you cautious.

. No she's a bigot because she doesn't view aliens on the same level as humans.  Equating the aliens to animals, mistrusting Garrus purely because of his species.  Nah, surely no racism there.

[mtmercydave09]

Steelcan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

It makes you a bigot to be concerned about giving anyone other than a human access to the mostly highly advanced ship in the Alliance?  I think not.  It just makes you cautious.

. No she's a bigot because she doesn't view aliens on the same level as humans.  Equating the aliens to animals, mistrusting Garrus purely because of his species.  Nah, surely no racism there.

It really doesn't matter since whatever bigotry there was or wasn't was gone pretty quickly anyways once she actually worked with aliens.

I don't blame her for putting her trust first in humans.  It's not like the Council's actions proved her wrong.

Modifié par mtmercydave09, 09 avril 2013 - 06:39 .

[Iakus]

Steelcan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

It makes you a bigot to be concerned about giving anyone other than a human access to the mostly highly advanced ship in the Alliance?  I think not.  It just makes you cautious.

. No she's a bigot because she doesn't view aliens on the same level as humans.  Equating the aliens to animals, mistrusting Garrus purely because of his species.  Nah, surely no racism there.

Actually, she does equate aliens on the same level of humans.  What she thinks of aliens, she thinks of humans too.  She even calls it "human" nature.  Ash is a cynic.  Full stop.

And she doesn't distrust Garrus due to his species, she (initially) distrusts Garrus because he answered to the Council and the Turian Heirarchy rather than the Alliance

[Getorex]

Steelcan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

It makes you a bigot to be concerned about giving anyone other than a human access to the mostly highly advanced ship in the Alliance?  I think not.  It just makes you cautious.

. No she's a bigot because she doesn't view aliens on the same level as humans.  Equating the aliens to animals, mistrusting Garrus purely because of his species.  Nah, surely no racism there.

Again...history.  Her family HISTORY.  Her father FOUGHT THE TURIANS in the First Contact War and had to surrender.  That issue has been a thorn in the side of her career.  Of course she is a little iffy on the alien thing, particularly turians. 

She was not the only one concerned about letting aliens have access to the most advanced ship in the Alliance fleet.  This wasn't HER, it was the sillyness of the writers because this concern MADE NO SENSE AT ALL in the context of the story.  The Normandy was a joint human-turian project.  ALIENS WERE INVOLVED AT THE GET-GO.  So the problem isn't Ashley (or others who voice concern about that issue) it was the writers who didn't pay attention to their own backstory.  There is no room for ANYONE to be concerned about a turian on board a ship that was half-designed, half-built by the turians!  Direct your complaint at the writers.

Modifié par Getorex, 09 avril 2013 - 06:46 .

[Iakus]

Getorex wrote...

She was not the only one concerned about letting aliens have access to the most advanced ship in the Alliance fleet.  This wasn't HER, it was the sillyness of the writers because this concern MADE NO SENSE AT ALL in the context of the story.  The Normandy was a joint human-turian project.  ALIENS WERE INVOLVED AT THE GET-GO.  So the problem isn't Ashley (or others who voice concern about that issue) it was the writers who didn't pay attention to their own backstory.  There is no room for ANYONE to be concerned about a turian on board a ship that was half-designed, half-built by the turians!  Direct your complaint at the writers.

But to be fair, while the ship was a joint human-turian project, some of the systems, including the Tantalus drive, were human only, that the turians had no access to.

It wasn't until the STG "acquired" the plans for the salarians and the quarians "mysteriously" obtained similar technology that we saw such stealth drives elsewhere.

[Ultrabobo]

Steelcan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

It makes you a bigot to be concerned about giving anyone other than a human access to the mostly highly advanced ship in the Alliance?  I think not.  It just makes you cautious.

. No she's a bigot because she doesn't view aliens on the same level as humans.  Equating the aliens to animals, mistrusting Garrus purely because of his species.  Nah, surely no racism there.

If there's any of that bigotry and racism (if) is at the beginning of the first ME. Shepard can quickly eliminate all the mistrust with a few dialogues, and Ash is more than happy to have Garrus et al on board.

Hell i will never undertsand why no one moans like this about Pressly, which was more vocal and had stronger opinions about aliens on the Normandy. The datapad on ME2 DLC was enough to shut it?
Smells like double standards

[robertthebard]

Getorex wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

It makes you a bigot to be concerned about giving anyone other than a human access to the mostly highly advanced ship in the Alliance?  I think not.  It just makes you cautious.

. No she's a bigot because she doesn't view aliens on the same level as humans.  Equating the aliens to animals, mistrusting Garrus purely because of his species.  Nah, surely no racism there.

Again...history.  Her family HISTORY.  Her father FOUGHT THE TURIANS in the First Contact War and had to surrender.  That issue has been a thorn in the side of her career.  Of course she is a little iffy on the alien thing, particularly turians. 

She was not the only one concerned about letting aliens have access to the most advanced ship in the Alliance fleet.  This wasn't HER, it was the sillyness of the writers because this concern MADE NO SENSE AT ALL in the context of the story.  The Normandy was a joint human-turian project.  ALIENS WERE INVOLVED AT THE GET-GO.  So the problem isn't Ashley (or others who voice concern about that issue) it was the writers who didn't pay attention to their own backstory.  There is no room for ANYONE to be concerned about a turian on board a ship that was half-designed, half-built by the turians!  Direct your complaint at the writers.

The other vocal person about aliens on board was Pressly, that I recall, that wasn't directly aimed at Nhilus anyway, and that was Spectre more than Turian, and we can see Pressly's growth on the subject, albeit a bit late, on his datapad at the Normandy Crash Site.

Edit:  'd...

Modifié par robertthebard, 09 avril 2013 - 06:49 .

[Iakus]

Ultrabobo wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

It makes you a bigot to be concerned about giving anyone other than a human access to the mostly highly advanced ship in the Alliance?  I think not.  It just makes you cautious.

. No she's a bigot because she doesn't view aliens on the same level as humans.  Equating the aliens to animals, mistrusting Garrus purely because of his species.  Nah, surely no racism there.

If there's any of that bigotry and racism (if) is at the beginning of the first ME. Shepard can quickly eliminate all the mistrust with a few dialogues, and Ash is more than happy to have Garrus et al on board.

Hell i will never undertsand why no one moans like this about Pressly, which was more vocal and had stronger opinions about aliens on the Normandy. The datapad on ME2 DLC was enough to shut it?
Smells like double standards

Makes you wonder why Javik is so popular.

[mtmercydave09]

Ultrabobo wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

It makes you a bigot to be concerned about giving anyone other than a human access to the mostly highly advanced ship in the Alliance?  I think not.  It just makes you cautious.

. No she's a bigot because she doesn't view aliens on the same level as humans.  Equating the aliens to animals, mistrusting Garrus purely because of his species.  Nah, surely no racism there.

If there's any of that bigotry and racism (if) is at the beginning of the first ME. Shepard can quickly eliminate all the mistrust with a few dialogues, and Ash is more than happy to have Garrus et al on board.

Hell i will never undertsand why no one moans like this about Pressly, which was more vocal and had stronger opinions about aliens on the Normandy. The datapad on ME2 DLC was enough to shut it?
Smells like double standards

Agreed, Pressly was much more vocal about it than Ash ever was.  

[Spartas Husky]

iakus wrote...

Makes you wonder why Javik is so popular.

cuz he kicks ass

[mtmercydave09]

iakus wrote...

Ultrabobo wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

It makes you a bigot to be concerned about giving anyone other than a human access to the mostly highly advanced ship in the Alliance?  I think not.  It just makes you cautious.

. No she's a bigot because she doesn't view aliens on the same level as humans.  Equating the aliens to animals, mistrusting Garrus purely because of his species.  Nah, surely no racism there.

If there's any of that bigotry and racism (if) is at the beginning of the first ME. Shepard can quickly eliminate all the mistrust with a few dialogues, and Ash is more than happy to have Garrus et al on board.

Hell i will never undertsand why no one moans like this about Pressly, which was more vocal and had stronger opinions about aliens on the Normandy. The datapad on ME2 DLC was enough to shut it?
Smells like double standards

Makes you wonder why Javik is so popular.

Probably because he pisses Liara off, and a lot of people like that because they see Liara as being Bioware's favorite.

Along with kicking ass of course.

Modifié par mtmercydave09, 09 avril 2013 - 06:52 .

[Ultrabobo]

To be fair about the Normandy joint project, Ash wasn't part of the crew until after Eden Prime.
Didn't actually build the ship, or stationed on board for months, is all fresh for her.
And let's not forget that according to Anderson, the Whole thing wasn't exactly Sunshine and rainbows anyway. Something about people in shackles and a brawl at Chora's Den if i remember well.

[mtmercydave09]

Ultrabobo wrote...

To be fair about the Normandy joint project, Ash wasn't part of the crew until after Eden Prime.
Didn't actually build the ship, or stationed on board for months, is all fresh for her.
And let's not forget that according to Anderson, the Whole thing wasn't exactly Sunshine and rainbows anyway. Something about people in shackles and a brawl at Chora's Den if i remember well.

Which probably also feeds into her distrust of any race other than humans, having just seen the entire 212 except for her get wiped out by another race other than her own.  I really can't blame Ash for feeling the way she did, and Shepard put a quick stop to it anyways.

Modifié par mtmercydave09, 09 avril 2013 - 06:56 .

[Getorex]

robertthebard wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

It makes you a bigot to be concerned about giving anyone other than a human access to the mostly highly advanced ship in the Alliance?  I think not.  It just makes you cautious.

. No she's a bigot because she doesn't view aliens on the same level as humans.  Equating the aliens to animals, mistrusting Garrus purely because of his species.  Nah, surely no racism there.

Again...history.  Her family HISTORY.  Her father FOUGHT THE TURIANS in the First Contact War and had to surrender.  That issue has been a thorn in the side of her career.  Of course she is a little iffy on the alien thing, particularly turians. 

She was not the only one concerned about letting aliens have access to the most advanced ship in the Alliance fleet.  This wasn't HER, it was the sillyness of the writers because this concern MADE NO SENSE AT ALL in the context of the story.  The Normandy was a joint human-turian project.  ALIENS WERE INVOLVED AT THE GET-GO.  So the problem isn't Ashley (or others who voice concern about that issue) it was the writers who didn't pay attention to their own backstory.  There is no room for ANYONE to be concerned about a turian on board a ship that was half-designed, half-built by the turians!  Direct your complaint at the writers.

The other vocal person about aliens on board was Pressly, that I recall, that wasn't directly aimed at Nhilus anyway, and that was Spectre more than Turian, and we can see Pressly's growth on the subject, albeit a bit late, on his datapad at the Normandy Crash Site.

Edit:  'd...

There's also the dick admiral guy who is waiting for Shepard at the Citadel docks and dresses down Shepard because the ship cost so much, blah blah, has aliens on it, blah blah.  I wanted a dialog choice so my Shepard could tell him that the ship wouldn't exist at all if not for the turians so any concern in that direction is crap.

[robertthebard]

Getorex wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

The other vocal person about aliens on board was Pressly, that I recall, that wasn't directly aimed at Nhilus anyway, and that was Spectre more than Turian, and we can see Pressly's growth on the subject, albeit a bit late, on his datapad at the Normandy Crash Site.

Edit:  'd...

There's also the dick admiral guy who is waiting for Shepard at the Citadel docks and dresses down Shepard because the ship cost so much, blah blah, has aliens on it, blah blah.  I wanted a dialog choice so my Shepard could tell him that the ship wouldn't exist at all if not for the turians so any concern in that direction is crap.

My last Renegade Shep didn't even let him board.  That was fun.