340 réponses à ce sujet

[Getorex]

sammysoso wrote...

I don't know about all the "nail in the coffin" business, but Ash was definitely a weaker character in ME3.

The out of character "sexy" redesign really bothered me. She's a shadow of her former self, a shame because I really love the character.

I liked her look in ME3 though I think they should have split  the difference: professional and functional bun hair when on duty/in armor but down and relaxed when off duty.  Kinda like real people.  As for weaker character, I saw her as growing older and wiser.  In ME1 she was young and less at ease with herself, though still a strong character.  In ME3 she appeared more mature and sure of herself.  More adult.  Definitely liked the getting rid of silly WHITE combat armor.  What was that?  Star Wars storm troooper?  A cry to be shot first in battle?  "Hey, can you see my bright white combat armor?  Can you see me from 300 meters away real nice?  That's what I'm aiming for. Wanna shoot me first?"  The blue/darker clothes and armor works better.

As for her being falling down drunk in ONE scene in ME3...I was in the military for 20 years.  A LOT of very good professional soldiers could get crazy off-duty and get plastered every once in a while.  They were STILL professional and good soldiers.  End of story.  So long as it isn't a habit it is just blowing off steam while being young.  Big deal.  Some read WAY too much into light GAME scenes when there's actually nothing to read into it at all. It's a GAME with a light-hearted MOMENT. 

My only beef wrt Ash in ME3 is how long it takes to get her back on the crew.  You get her right at the beginning (yay!) but then she's gone until you can trigger the coup attempt late in the game (boo!).  Liara is right there at the beginning to the very end.  Same with Garrus AND EVEN CHOCKWAS but Ash?  She doesn't make her reappearance until late in the game.  I LIKE having her on my squad.  She's great to look at AND she's solid as a rock (I don't like Vega but he's equally solid too as far as survivability).  Later in the game she RARELY needs to be revived with Medigel while other squadmates are falling like flies.  THAT'S a real woman

[Getorex]

Bill Casey wrote...

I disagree...
Shepard just rounded up a bunch of aliens at a bus stop and had them roam free on a classified military vessel...
Ashley was right about the Council looking out for its own interests first, she was right not to trust Cerberus, and she was right that Shepard could be a fake, because there was a clone shepard...

Not really.  Since the SR1 was a JOINT human and turian project, it is beyond ridiculous to complain that, at the very least, a TURIAN is on the crew.  There's nothing to hide from the turians as they were there at the initial design meetings!  THAT is the point I wanted to bring up to the ****** officer clown in the one scene in ME1 where he wanted to inspect the "waste of resources" that was the Normandy with his complaints about aliens on board:  "Hey asswipe, SIR, this ship wouldn't exist if not for the TURIANS."

Liara had a key role and was needed too: she knew the protheans but, more importantly, her own mother was involved with the enemy target.  I liked Wrex and all but HE didn't really have a place on the crew as far as aliens go.  Still, I'm glad he was there as I like the character.

[Getorex]

JasonShepard wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...

Ash was perfect for Cerberus. She was a terrible racist and anti-alien.

Ashley Williams hated Cerberus and Terra Firma in ME1...

You do realise that wasn't my quote? It was Gulaman's? I feel badly misrepresented here :-)
I was actually arguing against Ash being racist, anti-alien or perfect for Cerberus - see here for my actual post...

EDIT:

Steelcan wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...

I'll save you time in your life and my life. I've done 15+ playthroughs each game. I've seen her advocate the saving of the Council in the end, the preservation of the Rachnii Queen, and the friendly comments she makes to the squadmates once she got out of her Alliance bubble in ME1. 

. Once again, this is due to who you bring on the mission.  Bring Wrex and Ashley and she will advocate saving the council.  Bring Ashley and Liara and guess what.  She favors leaving them to die.

Wrong. You can get Ashley to be the one vouching for Council survival even over Liara if you passed a charm conversation with Ashley halfway through the game. The same charm check makes her more trusting of aliens and more aware of the fact that it was the Alliance  that blacklisted her family. The charm check is easily missed, however, and does not get imported.

Huh.  I've never managed that charm input then.  Now I'm going to have to do another ME1, 2, and 3 playthrough (thanks be to MEHEM) and try and get that conversation right.

[Getorex]

Argolas wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If anything, she is anti-synthetic, but that's it.

If so, that's still pretty damned bad.

I can't fully disagree, but Ashley is not that radical as, for example Javik or Tali before ME3. The thing is that she does say some pretty insulting things about "flashlights". On the other hand, I have gratefully never been in any war, but I don't think marines saying insulting things about their enemies is always racism.

I don't know. I'm just saying that being anti-synthetic is something you can say about Ashley, while I disagree about xenophobic.

It doesn't matter who the enemy is, soldiers always (and even must) refer to the enemy in insulting/degrading terms.  It is part of war, it is part of conflict, it is part of dealing with it all and getting it done.  You have to be willing and able to gun down your enemy.  If you are getting all touchy-feely about them then you are a liability.

I felt sorry for the Republican Guard soldiers I was bombing the living crap out of in Iraq when I'd see the poor bastards on the news in the hours after an attack.  I did not go further than that and was ready and willing the very next day to blow them, as needed, into a red mist all over again.  They were "rag heads" when we were blowing their **** up.  Poor bastards when it was over.  It sucked to be them.  Better that than it sucking to be us. 

I didn't lose a wink of sleep.

[Xilizhra]

It doesn't matter who the enemy is, soldiers always (and even must) refer to the enemy in insulting/degrading terms. It is part of war, it is part of conflict, it is part of dealing with it all and getting it done. You have to be willing and able to gun down your enemy. If you are getting all touchy-feely about them then you are a liability.

Strangely, my Shepard has never seemed to find that a necessity in ME. Nor has anyone else apart from Ashley. This may have something to do with us only fighting people we're fairly sure are bad personally as well as actively trying to kill us.

[Getorex]

Xilizhra wrote...

It doesn't matter who the enemy is, soldiers always (and even must) refer to the enemy in insulting/degrading terms. It is part of war, it is part of conflict, it is part of dealing with it all and getting it done. You have to be willing and able to gun down your enemy. If you are getting all touchy-feely about them then you are a liability.

Strangely, my Shepard has never seemed to find that a necessity in ME. Nor has anyone else apart from Ashley. This may have something to do with us only fighting people we're fairly sure are bad personally as well as actively trying to kill us.

When you are fighting the Geth in ME1 they are merely toasters, blinky flashlights, etc.  Cerberus are thugs, criminals, and damned mercs (I see "Blackwater" scum when I think Cerberus...why NOT kill a Blackwater thug?).  They are dehumanized as needed.  You meet Legion in ME2 close and personal and learn things aren't what you'd always believed (that the Quarians were innocent victims and the Geth evil bots incarnate).  Only then, and ONLY for Shepard, do the toasters become more than tin cans for target practice.  It is VERY understandable why virtually everyone else in the galaxy would still have issues with the blinky flashlights. 

If I had the OPTION of having my Shepard refer to Cerberus mercs as scum (or other terms) then I absolutely would have (I friggin HATE Blackwater, now "Xi" and the people it attracts.  Damned scumbag sociopaths).

[Xilizhra]

When you are fighting the Geth in ME1 they are merely toasters, blinky flashlights, etc. Cerberus are thugs, criminals, and damned mercs (I see "Blackwater" scum when I think Cerberus...why NOT kill a Blackwater thug?). They are dehumanized as needed. You meet Legion in ME2 close and personal and learn things aren't what you'd always believed (that the Quarians were innocent victims and the Geth evil bots incarnate). Only then, and ONLY for Shepard, do the toasters become more than tin cans for target practice. It is VERY understandable why virtually everyone else in the galaxy would still have issues with the blinky flashlights.

My Shepard never says anything of the kind. Nor does Liara, nor Kaidan that I know of.

[Xilizhra]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

When you are fighting the Geth in ME1 they are merely toasters, blinky flashlights, etc. Cerberus are thugs, criminals, and damned mercs (I see "Blackwater" scum when I think Cerberus...why NOT kill a Blackwater thug?). They are dehumanized as needed. You meet Legion in ME2 close and personal and learn things aren't what you'd always believed (that the Quarians were innocent victims and the Geth evil bots incarnate). Only then, and ONLY for Shepard, do the toasters become more than tin cans for target practice. It is VERY understandable why virtually everyone else in the galaxy would still have issues with the blinky flashlights.

My Shepard never says anything of the kind. Nor does Liara, nor Kaidan that I know of.

Kaidan: Finally rid of the geth once and for all; those murdering machines.

I'm disappointed in you, Kaidan. Fortunately, I'll never see this outcome in my own game and have to see everyone else's idiot callousness. At least they're properly respectful if the quarians died.

[Chashan]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

My Shepard never says anything of the kind. Nor does Liara, nor Kaidan that I know of.

Kaidan: Finally rid of the geth once and for all; those murdering machines.

Another would be Wrex's referring to Rachni and, by extension, Reap-hurrs as 'giant monsters', with the Krogan conveniently coming to everyone's rescue.

Haven't yet done Citadel, but from what I am hearing here I guess expectations are to be kept low. Hrmph.

[Getorex]

Chashan wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

My Shepard never says anything of the kind. Nor does Liara, nor Kaidan that I know of.

Kaidan: Finally rid of the geth once and for all; those murdering machines.

Another would be Wrex's referring to Rachni and, by extension, Reap-hurrs as 'giant monsters', with the Krogan conveniently coming to everyone's rescue.

Haven't yet done Citadel, but from what I am hearing here I guess expectations are to be kept low. Hrmph.

Don't sweat it.  I LIKED the Citadel DLC.  A lot.  I liked the jokes, I liked the mission regardless of after-the-fact nitnoid picking it apart.  Play it and enjoy it in the spirit it was offered. 

[Loaderini]

I think the reaction to the original endings of the game opened the complaining gates. Since then, all kinds of complains pass through that gate.

[Getorex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

When you are fighting the Geth in ME1 they are merely toasters, blinky flashlights, etc. Cerberus are thugs, criminals, and damned mercs (I see "Blackwater" scum when I think Cerberus...why NOT kill a Blackwater thug?). They are dehumanized as needed. You meet Legion in ME2 close and personal and learn things aren't what you'd always believed (that the Quarians were innocent victims and the Geth evil bots incarnate). Only then, and ONLY for Shepard, do the toasters become more than tin cans for target practice. It is VERY understandable why virtually everyone else in the galaxy would still have issues with the blinky flashlights.

My Shepard never says anything of the kind. Nor does Liara, nor Kaidan that I know of.

Kaidan: Finally rid of the geth once and for all; those murdering machines.

I'm disappointed in you, Kaidan. Fortunately, I'll never see this outcome in my own game and have to see everyone else's idiot callousness. At least they're properly respectful if the quarians died.

I see you are playing as a paragon of paragons, unlike ANYONE in the real world (by which I mean no paragons of paragons in the military in the real world).  I play my Shepard as close to me as I can, given the options.  I play him realistically as possible.  I don't go out of my way to make him a saint (he's a SOLDIER!) I don't go out of my way to make him a dick (there are dick soldiers but MOST I've known are just regular good people who kill for a living and I actually try to NOT be a dick unless the situation truly requires it). A soldier, real world, would be ineffective if they were all emotional and caring about the people they're fighting.  You CANNOT second guess, you CANNOT pause and think about things from THEIR point of view.  You aim, you shoot, you move on to the next "target" (rag head, haji, nip, ******, kraut, etc, depending on the era and the enemy - WHATEVER term is used, they are objectified and dehumanized to make open-ended killing efficient).  AFTER the fighting is over THEN the former enemy becomes human again with real names, with families, with quirks, etc.  They become people you might otherwise be able to be friends with.  Only AFTER.  

You can't go around blowing the head off of people who you think of as  someone's son, daughter, as a funny guy with his friends, as a good writer and good uncle, a great aspiring artist, etc.  They are OBJECTS/things/monsters/scum to be shot.

Modifié par Getorex, 26 mars 2013 - 02:00 .

[Xilizhra]

I see you are playing as a paragon of paragons, unlike ANYONE in the real world (by which I mean no paragons of paragons in the military in the real world).

I kind of have to, in order to ensure my Shepard won't be corrupted by power in Control.

I play him realistically as possible. I don't go out of my way to make him a saint (he's a SOLDIER!) I don't go out of my way to make him a dick (there are dick soldiers but MOST I've known are just regular good people who kill for a living). A soldier, real world, would be ineffective if they were all emotional and caring about the people they're fighting. You CANNOT second guess, you CANNOT pause and think about things from THEIR point of view. You aim, you shoot, you move on to the next "target" (rag head, haji, nip, ******, kraut, etc, depending on the era and the enemy). AFTER the fighting is over THEN the former enemy becomes human again.

That wasn't really what I meant. In battle, fine, no second-guessing is performed. I just don't badmouth anyone for species reasons at any point, because that status is irrelevant; all that matters is them trying to kill me/others.

[Applepie_Svk]

Final nail to the coffin for both VS but mainly to Ashley was the release of ME3, while I don´t like them and I don´t mind the chance to shoot them or leave them on the Citadel, but I do feel badly for all their supporters. Still they have at least something unlike the Morinth.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 26 mars 2013 - 04:56 .

[Ice Cold J]

JasonPogo wrote...

So an unromanced Ash will spend the party being flirty and giggly with Vega...  Did anyone who worked on this game even play ME1?  I could buy that Ash would have a one night stand with Vega.  But the whole girly girl act is SO not her.  Everything Bioware did with her character is just an insult to her fans and women in genral.

"Just because I can drill you between the eyes at a hundred meters doesn't mean I can't like sensitive stuff"

- Ashley Williams, ME1

Modifié par Ice Cold J, 06 avril 2013 - 03:48 .

[Iakus]

Ice Cold J wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

So an unromanced Ash will spend the party being flirty and giggly with Vega...  Did anyone who worked on this game even play ME1?  I could buy that Ash would have a one night stand with Vega.  But the whole girly girl act is SO not her.  Everything Bioware did with her character is just an insult to her fans and women in genral.

"Just because I can drill you between the eyes at a hundred meters doesn't mean I can't like sensitive stuff"

- Ashley Williams, ME1

"Just don't spread it around"

-ditto

[Warden24]

Probably already been stated, but the final nail in her coffin was on Virmire for this guy... Kaidan Onasi on the other hand was... refreshing? Different even? Ehh, not bad really.

[Made Nightwing]

My basic training buddy was essentially carrying my Guiness soaked carcass back to barracks after march out celebration night. I, in turn, was desperately holding him back from starting a drunken fight with the MPs after completing SOI a few months later. So no, it's not really that bad what Ash and Vega get up to. It is, after all, Mass Effect, where Shepard can hook up with anything that moves for no consequences.

Getorex, I wouldn't advise arguing with Xilizhra. Her ability to think Mass Effect is real life is astounding.

[Saito404]

JasonPogo wrote...
But the whole girly girl act is SO not her.

REALLY? Have you ever romanced Ash in ME1?

For me, Ash from Citadel DLC was Ash from ME1.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Argolas wrote...

Ashley hate or Liara hate? Which one is stronger?

Seriously, what's the problem? No one needs to fit into any cliché. Ash is a strong and confident woman and a badass soldier, that does not mean she can't be "girly" when she is off duty, especially when alcohol is involved.

Also, Ash is not xenophobic. If anything, she is anti-synthetic, but that's it. She supports neither Cerberus nor Terra Firma, and she serves the Alliance with her whole heart. She is politically cautious against aliens, but she considers them possible allies that should not be denied. She is also capable of deep (that does not mean intimate) relationships with Aliens, for example Tali.

If Ash didn't b**** constantly about not trusting me because of Cerberus while we were being shot at and while I was putting bullets in the skulls of Cerberus troopers in the beginning of the game I'd have been okay with her. But she just kept going and going and going to the point where she never made it past the coup.  

Otherwise I liked her character. Why? Why? did they do this to her?

I do plan one play and film to post with my femShep in Cerberus armor taking her out.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 08 avril 2013 - 02:17 .

[Iakus]

Saito404 wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...
But the whole girly girl act is SO not her.

REALLY? Have you ever romanced Ash in ME1?

For me, Ash from Citadel DLC was Ash from ME1.

Ash from ME1 would not have looked so ridiculous gettingi nto a barroom brawl.

But that's a problem the entirety of ME3 had...

[Han Shot First]

Really?! People are mad because she sleeps with Vega?

[Iakus]

Han Shot First wrote...

Really?! People are mad because she sleeps with Vega?

No she doesn't.

I distinclty remember her waking up next to Shepard 

[Made Nightwing]

@Shotgun, She doesn't bring up anything while you're being shot at. She brings it up during a lull in battle. This is something you do. When the shooting stops, you top up mags, do up your pouches, then make sure your jailbird CO hasn't overheard any Cerberus plans that he's not bringing up at the moment.