Made Nightwing wrote...
@Adoramei Except...the military draws precisely that type of person. Family oriented, eager to serve, proud of their culture/civilization, a little cynical, sometimes religious. If that personality type offends you, then I, my battle buddy, brick, section, platoon, company, battalion, regiment, brigade, division and corps all personally offend you...and that's a strange thing to have in the twenty first century. A little while ago I sat down and reviewed all the things that I found offensive. After logically considering it, I realised that I didn't really find anything offensive...just mildly irritating. Hell, I don't even consider a punch to the face an offensive statement anymore...as long as I'm allowed to rebutt.
Likewise, you insinuate that I like her despite or because her being racist. Nah, I like Wrex, Javik and Garrus despite/because racism. Ash is a loyalist. Learn the difference.
And yes, I think that you like her despite her being racist, but you don't see her as racist, do you?
If you don't think it's racism, you're not liking her because or, as far as you know, despite her racism. I do not decree your experience. Personally, I see her as a big xenophobe. (Which is RIDICULOUS that this is being brought up AGAIN. And that's coming from the person who doesn't like the character.) But I have different experiences and a different world view. She offends me on several levels. Unless you're saying you're an exact clone of her, there's no use getting defensive about it. You are an actual human being- a multi-faceted and complicated sentient entity. She is a video game character that will never be any more than she is programmed to be on the surface.
While I don't mind religiousness, I thought that it was a bit contrived to have her say, "something something god.. Oh, wait.. It's okay that I believe in god, right?" If it's not a big deal, why make a big deal out of it and point it out? Seriously. They were trying too hard with that. Had they just left it at that, I'd have been fine. And on one of my playthroughs, I do remember her telling my character, despite my character telling her to ease off, that they survived because of the will of her diety. Which I do find offensive because I had already asked her to stop. It's like when I got sent to a religious summer camp and despite me telling the kids that I was an atheist and to respect my beliefs, they gave me a bible at the end. I was absolutely furious while they were so pleased that they had brought faith to an unbeliever. Within the scope of the game, she might not realise that it's offensive. Hell, she might think she's doing something great for Shepard. But it doesn't help that I, as the player, feel that had this been me, I would have felt like regardless of any good intentions she may have had, she still was acting like her beliefs overrode mine.
Ethnocentrism is one thing. In fact, I often have to find the line with ethnocentrism myself, being of a strong cultural background.
But to make fun of others for their appearance because they were born a different species is a bit much. Comparing "aliens" to "animals" is a bit much. If we weren't even talking about aliens and we replaced the "aliens" with a human ethnicity, it would be racist. Being loyal can also mean fostering a relationship with allies. Being nationalist could mean that you just want to look out for the best in your country/home. It has nothing to do with telling Liara, "You're not even our species!" during the conflict in ME1, which is an outburst of character. No matter how mad you are, you don't shout something unless you were thinking it.
We've both heard one anothers' arguments on the racism/nationalism issue, and we're going to have to agree to disagree because it gets us nowhere. I have a different experience. I come from a background where I CAN be an idealist and still believe that it's reasonable to treat everyone the same way, regardless of origin. Actually.. one of my best friends is Navy. (His daughters are both my god-daughters, in fact.) Serves on the USS Reagan. He comes from a military family, which I actually didn't even know until he enlisted. He feels a lot like I do. We have had the same discussion about Ashley but coming from very similar mindsets. There are some comments that go too far. What the military "tends to attract" has nothing to do with an individual's choices or beliefs. I do not think it right to say that because I don't like a character that happens to be a military type and dislike facets of her limited personality that this means that I think that being "military" equates to overall offensive.
I do not like parts of her personality. She does not represent military as a whole.
I don't really care about her suspicions of the crew. That doesn't really matter to me since Shepard's in charge anyhow and she's free to be as cautious as she wants to so long as it doesn't actually affect anyone else. I mean, I don't like her attitude about it, but that's hard to differentiate between xenophobia and protectiveness. However, to be honest, most of my Shepards see her as just as much of a stranger to the ship than any of the other crew-mates. So they do, for the most part, just tell her to respect the chain of command.
And when it comes to the poetry, I'm sorry, but I think they were trying too hard again here to make a character that stands out a bit much. Unfortunately, any development with this pretty much stopped and was left hanging, which made it look even worse. They might have been able to develop this in to something more in ME3 had they not copped out and changed her personality to be more "likeable" for everyone. Something I absolutely don't agree with. It's like censorship and completely unfair to her fans, who obviously liked her for who she was. I mean, if they were going to change her for players that didn't like her, it's a bit late for that. Most of us leave her on Virmire. That's why they give you the choice of two different characters.. except in 3, where they pretty much made them carbon copies of one another for quite a few conversations until the coup.
No matter how much you argue with my point of view, it will always be my point of view. I defend my point of view and I won't try to tell you to believe mine because I respect it as your own. If I have done so in the past, then I was wrong, and I am sorry about that. What I see in her is xenophobia/racism. The writers did make an effort to tone it down, but what came out will always be offensive to me. Which is fine. That is what makes her an effective character. Eliciting an emotional response is exactly what you want in a character. I don't hate her, and I wouldn't even hate her if she was a real person. But from where I stand, there is no excuse for judging someone based on their background, birth, or appearance.
That is how I was raised, and that won't change with an online argument. Am I free of that? Absolutely not. I'm only human. But I make the effort to be. I catch myself and try to be "better". I have never fought a war, nor will I ever. I respect the military personnel, but it is not the life for me. But being military is neither here nor there, as I have met many who share my idealism. My dad was, in fact, drafted into the Vietnam war. He was treated with distain by his own platoon because he was Chinese, not even close to being Vietnamese. People still ask him to this day when he says that he was drafted into the war: "Which side?" Despite his perfect English and no confirmation of his being from Vietnam. It's disgusting.
They don't think it's racism, but for someone who actually has to experience it, it is. Yes, it absolutely is. I know the difference. I am touched by it every day. My father, a US Veteran, experiences it on a regular basis. Every single one of my cousins, college attendees or graduates- at least one of us will experience it each day, no matter how "Westernised". Even if people don't think that they are being racist, that doesn't make it any less racist.
But I digress.
This is not something I will change my mind on.
Modifié par Adoramei, 09 avril 2013 - 05:03 .
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