164 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

 
[/quote]

I'm wondering about clones and finger prints tho.. I haven't researched it..but I have... doubts.

uh oh

http://www.scafo.org...ary/130501.html[/quote]

Fingerprints are NOT encoded in your DNA, not the SPECIFIC fingerprints you have.  Your DNA merely says: thou shalt have fingerprints.  Their specific form is stochastic.  Bioware got that right.

Identical twins (monozygotic twins) are actually clones of each other.  They are TRUE clones that are much more alike than any lab clone is - down to the mitochondrial DNA.  Identical.  They do not have identical fingerprints.

Also, DNA methylation and other epigenetic modifications are entirely unique and not clonable in their entirety.  So there will ALWAYS be real differences.
[/quote]

but. clones are NOT twins.. no matter if even close comparison,it's not etched in stone..like our assumed finger prints are sole depiction of our identities.

If cloned 'exactly' (for the sake of purism;) they'd be identical. If not, then its not a clone at all.

Of course, ah hem, nobody anywhere has actually cloned a human..so it's a moot point..but still, there is room for doubt about clones and finger prints. pe se. Enough for beyond a reasonable doubt type scenario. lol[/quote]

The term "clone" has a specific and clear scientific meaning.  Clones are NOT perfect copies the way identical twins are.  Human pure clones, down to the last molecule, are called "identical twins".  Literally.  They are identical in DNA including, as I said, mitochondrial DNA (unlike ANY lab-produced clone of ANY species).  They also developed in identical uteran environments, getting hit with male and female hormone pulses at the same time.  That being said, if you really analyzed even identical twin DNA you would find that as time passes the DNA modifications diverge such that though the DNA SEQUENCE will be identical, the modifications to it will NOT be identical and thus the expression of the DNA will not be identical. 

A clone isn't some bit of magic, it is exactly what has been done in labs with many MANY animals so far (and one day someone WILL clone a human).  The cloned human will be less like the template human than an identical twin of that person would be.
[/quote]

From that I'd have to assume the ideal behind actually cloning would be representative of twinning? Thus cloning is really not an aspect at all, as there is not actually any such thing. We've merely copied nature in effectively twinning another, not cloning them. Sheps "clone" would be really an evil twin, so to speak.

I seem to remember a thing/story about humans actually being left and right side twins. As each hemisphere is different from the other. Ever look'it BWS as an interesting dipole of twinning in relation to altered states of DNA?

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 25 mars 2013 - 03:02 .

[Patchwork]

Sticking Shepard in a coma for two years and handwaving the CC as reconstructive surgery would have been so much simpler than Project Lazarus.

Say the Alliance gave up and pulled the plug but Cerberus knew cmdr Shepard could be saved so they stole the body.

[Wayning_Star]

Ser Bard wrote...

Sticking Shepard in a coma for two years and handwaving the CC as reconstructive surgery would have been so much simpler than Project Lazarus.

Say the Alliance gave up and pulled the plug but Cerberus knew cmdr Shepard could be saved so they stole the body.

Bioware writer flight of ideas? Got me to thinking Shepard after wasn't actually Shepard prior.. Then Cerberus tinkering with the hero made me worry even more. Shepard is really vulnerable there as a character. Too many variables with little/no lore.

Then we have the Citadel DLC with an apparently evile twin and his wicked girlbuddy..sheesh.

lol

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 25 mars 2013 - 02:47 .

[Dieb]

That's very interesting to know, Getorex, I've really been using the term "clone" wrong all the time. But how does it go together with the probability of what Cerberus did in Shepard's specific case?


P.S.: *wannabe forum sheriff nagging* Trimming down the mayan quote-temple would make for a lot more comfortable read

[JasonShepard]

Regarding the resurrection of Shepard - I don't believe that it is explicitly stated anywhere in the games or expanded media that Shepard actually underwent re-entry. It's implied - notably by Shepard heading towards the planet at the end of the opening sequence - but he could easily have ended up in orbit instead.
(Shepard also flickers at the end of that sequence, akin to the heated atmosphere that you see when something undergoes re-entry - however, since we can see the curvature of the planet at that range, there is no way he is touching the atmosphere yet.)

Anyway, here's a way they could have done it using exclusively in-universe tech:

TIM tells Miranda to "See to it that we don't lose him." In other words, before Shepard even dies, Miranda is to put contingencies into place to preserve Shepard's life if possible. The most vital part of Shepard is his brain - in a worst case scenario the rest can be rebuilt. If the brain suffers information death (ie, destruction of memories) then that can not be repaired. It's like trying to read a book after you've burnt it to ashes.

So - let's get Shepard a new helmet. It's Cerberus - they can probably arrange for something like that. This new helmet includes two secret modules, designed to activate if Shepard's life-signs start failing. The first is a stasis module - an experimental, tech version of the stasis effect that biotics can conjure (should be possible with the right circuitry and eezo). If Shepard is dying, this module freezes his brain in time, protecting it against bio-degradation.
The second module is advanced MRI scanner, which takes a 3D photograph of Shepard's brain. If any damage does occur to the brain (possibly due to the stasis unit running low on power), this scan could be used to repair the damage. It's no substitute for keeping the brain intact, but it's better than nothing.
(Cronos Station specifies Shepard as being brain dead - presumably the stasis unit was very low on power by the time that he had been recovered, so his brain had - slowly - crossed over to being clinically brain dead. This does not mean that all memories and personality have been destroyed - just that the brain is in no fit state to continue without repair.)

During the Lazarus project, Shepard's brain is kept in a stasis field while his body is repaired, and then, once his body is once again able to support it, re-constructive brain surgery is performed to repair the damage compared to the MRI photograph. This process can be used to explain any in-game shifts in character between ME1 and ME2.

Shepard's fingerprints were likely destroyed either by the vacuum of space or re-entry (fi you believe it happened) - however, the Alliance would have them on record, so Cerberus could reconstruct them.

If you want to insist that Shepard hit the planet, then N7 suits are quite advanced - I'm sure they come with space parachutes (N7s having notably been trained in space drops according to the codex.)
Yes, this is all headcanon. But to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't contradict any official information. The only reason I put this together is because ME2's opening did initially break my willing suspension of disbelief - until I worked out how it could have been done.

As for Shepard's helmet that you find on Nonuel - that was just a spare that went down with the Normandy...


Regarding the question of whether Shepard is still Shepard - I'd argue that there is a continuity of personality, so yes. However, it does come down to the philosophical question of whether an axe that has, on separate occasions, had its shaft, blade and bindings replaced, is still the same axe...

Modifié par JasonShepard, 25 mars 2013 - 03:01 .

[Auld Wulf]

Cerberus

Shepard is a soldier and has a mind that's more practical than most. Even the most naive soldier would take a ship from a terrorist organisation if they knew that people were dying out there. It was more about Shepard using Cerberus than the other way around. It also provides opportunities to get in on the inside of Cerberus and stick it to TIM that way, since you know he's not in a position to argue with you. Project Overlord is a lovely example of that.

Shepard understood that this would get her on the inside, and she could use that knowledge to do a lot of good (and she did). She was quite the thorn in Cerberus' side, even in ME2. So this was Shepard being prudent and using her foe to her advantage.

Project Lazarus

I always felt that it was fairly obvious that they were using Reaper tech, somehow. This is how Shepard is very resistant to indoctrination. And the Reapers have tech that goes far beyond anything humanity or any race can do in the present day of Mass Effect. And as the saying goes, any technology which is distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. What people see as "space magic" is objectively future technology.

The funny thing is that if you were to show a person from 5 centuries ago an iPhone, they'd see it as magic and the work of the devil, too.

[Steelcan]

Im just pissed I couldn't stick with Cerberus.

[Wayning_Star]

JasonShepard wrote...

Regarding the resurrection of Shepard - I don't believe that it is explicitly stated anywhere in the games or expanded media that Shepard actually underwent re-entry. It's implied - notably by Shepard heading towards the planet at the end of the opening sequence - but he could easily have ended up in orbit instead.
(Shepard also flickers at the end of that sequence, akin to the heated atmosphere that you see when something undergoes re-entry - however, since we can see the curvature of the planet at that range, there is no way he is touching the atmosphere yet.)

Anyway, here's a way they could have done it using exclusively in-universe tech:

TIM tells Miranda to "See to it that we don't lose him." In other words, before Shepard even dies, Miranda is to put contingencies into place to preserve Shepard's life if possible. The most vital part of Shepard is his brain - in a worst case scenario the rest can be rebuilt. If the brain suffers information death (ie, destruction of memories) then that can not be repaired. It's like trying to read a book after you've burnt it to ashes.

So - let's get Shepard a new helmet. It's Cerberus - they can probably arrange for something like that. This new helmet includes two secret modules, designed to activate if Shepard's life-signs start failing. The first is a stasis module - an experimental, tech version of the stasis effect that biotics can conjure (should be possible with the right circuitry and eezo). If Shepard is dying, this module freezes his brain in time, protecting it against bio-degradation.
The second module is advanced MRI scanner, which takes a 3D photograph of Shepard's brain. If any damage does occur to the brain (possibly due to the stasis unit running low on power), this scan could be used to repair the damage. It's no substitute for keeping the brain intact, but it's better than nothing.
(Cronos Station specifies Shepard as being brain dead - presumably the stasis unit was very low on power by the time that he had been recovered, so his brain had - slowly - crossed over to being clinically brain dead. This does not mean that all memories and personality have been destroyed - just that the brain is in no fit state to continue without repair.)

During the Lazarus project, Shepard's brain is kept in a stasis field while his body is repaired, and then, once his body is once again able to support it, re-constructive brain surgery is performed to repair the damage compared to the MRI photograph. This process can be used to explain any in-game shifts in character between ME1 and ME2.

Shepard's fingerprints were likely destroyed either by the vacuum of space or re-entry (fi you believe it happened) - however, the Alliance would have them on record, so Cerberus could reconstruct them.

If you want to insist that Shepard hit the planet, then N7 suits are quite advanced - I'm sure they come with space parachutes (N7s having notably been trained in space drops according to the codex.)
Yes, this is all headcanon. But to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't contradict any official information. The only reason I put this together is because ME2's opening did initially break my willing suspension of disbelief - until I worked out how it could have been done.

As for Shepard's helmet that you find on Nonuel - that was just a spare that went down with the Normandy...


Regarding the question of whether Shepard is still Shepard - I'd argue that there is a continuity of personality, so yes. However, it does come down to the philosophical question of whether an axe that has, on separate occasions, had its shaft, blade and bindings replaced, is still the same axe...

I've wondered about that too, as if Shepard blinks, but that could be a reflection? Maybe just a graphics thing, for drama.. Didn't someone give Shep back a helment? The one he/she had on during reentry?

We could probably safely assume that the future space suits would have a reentry clause built in, just in case. I'd suspect that many, over the millions of years of alien space travel and mining operations that precautions were reasonably taken for those 'lost in space'. Most of those sci fi books about it I've read had unique suit functions during battles that would insure safe planet landing, even IF incapacitated. I think forever war was the most interesting story about such stuff.

[Wayning_Star]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Cerberus

Shepard is a soldier and has a mind that's more practical than most. Even the most naive soldier would take a ship from a terrorist organisation if they knew that people were dying out there. It was more about Shepard using Cerberus than the other way around. It also provides opportunities to get in on the inside of Cerberus and stick it to TIM that way, since you know he's not in a position to argue with you. Project Overlord is a lovely example of that.

Shepard understood that this would get her on the inside, and she could use that knowledge to do a lot of good (and she did). She was quite the thorn in Cerberus' side, even in ME2. So this was Shepard being prudent and using her foe to her advantage.

Project Lazarus

I always felt that it was fairly obvious that they were using Reaper tech, somehow. This is how Shepard is very resistant to indoctrination. And the Reapers have tech that goes far beyond anything humanity or any race can do in the present day of Mass Effect. And as the saying goes, any technology which is distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. What people see as "space magic" is objectively future technology.

The funny thing is that if you were to show a person from 5 centuries ago an iPhone, they'd see it as magic and the work of the devil, too.

that's funny Wulf, I currently think Iphones are work of a devil..

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 25 mars 2013 - 03:12 .

[Wayning_Star]

Steelcan wrote...

Im just pissed I couldn't stick with Cerberus.

rofl

[George Costanza]

The Lazarus Project is one of those things in Mass Effect that I just use my imagination on. I hate it. Hate it hate it hate it. Hate it. I have to just imagine that they found Shepards body frozen or something and spent untold millions reviving him, rather than the Fifth Element type deal that appears to be going down in ME2.

[Wayning_Star]

George Costanza wrote...

The Lazarus Project is one of those things in Mass Effect that I just use my imagination on. I hate it. Hate it hate it hate it. Hate it. I have to just imagine that they found Shepards body frozen or something and spent untold millions reviving him, rather than the Fifth Element type deal that appears to be going down in ME2.

IMO, the money/credits thing in the MEU is crazy. What with all those resources just floating about, mega credits would be second nature, unless they suffer from rampant inflation. That doesn't seem possible given the rate of technology to produce 'stuff' in the MEU. Another skimp on the comparison to old Earth and future reality. Money is no object in that future. Heck the scrap value of one reapership would be astronomical..lol

I figured the lazarus thing was a non issue when figuring rationality of resuscitation of one mere human. But still, to have all faculties intact? Another strange story there.( Shep returns a blank slate/zero sum configuration)

[Dieb]

I don't mean to be offensive, but so far no one really explained their resentment towards PL, or opposing the "modern technology was considered magic 200 years ago" argument.

I'm perfectly fine with your opinion, but as it is already established to be the popular one around here, the whole purpose of this thread was to find out why. Given everything else happening in the ME universe, why is this the point that's beyond imagination/reason?

Modifié par Baelrahn, 25 mars 2013 - 03:30 .

[F4H bandicoot]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

If you told people 150 years ago about some of the treatments we have today, I'm sure they'd claim magic aswell, but it's not, just advancement of technology and ideas.

Yet to see an answer to this...

[Iakus]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

If you told people 150 years ago about some of the treatments we have today, I'm sure they'd claim magic aswell, but it's not, just advancement of technology and ideas.

150 years ago?  How about 2 years ago?

Even Shepard's contemporaries have a hard time believing this can be pulled off.  And the leader of an Earth nation could only pull off a crude facimile of it.

[Iakus]

Baelrahn wrote...

iakus wrote...

Baelrahn wrote...

Because Cerberus?

Amounts to the same thing.

If you'd please take the time to read my entire OP, you'd see that as far as I'm concerned, it really does not. And go on opposing from there.

And as far as I'm concerned, it is.

"It's science fiction" is not carte blanche to just make stuff up out of whole cloth.  Down that path lies green space magic and Starchildren.  Stuff needs to happen for a reason, even a silly one like "element zero nodules in the nervous system"  "It's only a matter of resources" simply doesn't cut it.  It's literally throwing money at a problem to make it go away

Modifié par iakus, 25 mars 2013 - 03:48 .

[nos_astra]

iakus wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

If you told people 150 years ago about some of the treatments we have today, I'm sure they'd claim magic aswell, but it's not, just advancement of technology and ideas.

150 years ago?  How about 2 years ago?

Even Shepard's contemporaries have a hard time believing this can be pulled off.  And the leader of an Earth nation could only pull off a crude facimile of it.

Even Liara considered success for the project to be very unlikely. 

I disliked it for the lack of explanation (we did it with lots of money) and for the way it only served to reset your skills and (pretty weak) reason to work with Cerberus (well, the writing only begins to take a nose dive with PL, the subsequent parts for the most part aren't really better in quality).

Lots of money is not an explanation. Neither is "science fiction". As it stands PL is fiction but the science part is missing. There is not even made-up science that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. They didn't even bother.

Modifié par klarabella, 25 mars 2013 - 03:51 .

[iamthedave3]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

If you told people 150 years ago about some of the treatments we have today, I'm sure they'd claim magic aswell, but it's not, just advancement of technology and ideas.

Yet to see an answer to this...

What is there to 'answer'? Your statement has no bearing on the actual question.

Shepherd is - as far as we can tell - a human being, and as far as the ME canon establishes, humans are still human. Humans that hit the ground at terminal velocity get turned into jelly. Humans who get spaced, exposed to hard vacuum and then go through re-entry... well... let's just say not much would be left behind.

The idea that Shepherd's HELMET would prevent his/her brain from being irreperably damaged is ridiculous. The impact alone would bounce Shepherd's brain against the inside of his/her skull so hard that it would suffer irreperable damage (understatement mode activated).

Furthmore, this isn't 'technology'. It's a plot device. If it was technology it would actually have a bearing on events elsewhere in the universe. But it isn't, it's a one-time plot device used to bring Shepherd back from the dead which is then quietly shuffled off-screen and which has no contemporary anywhere else in the game world.

What makes it magical is not that it's impossible, it's that it has no technological precedent within the game world. Let alone the many questions, many of them religious and cultural, that this technology should logically raise which are barely even given a nod to let alone explored.

It isn't technology. It's magic in technological form.

If Lazarus was genuine tech, it would either cause a revolution in medical science (let us not forget the Salarians are the most advanced scientific minds in the universe; they'd do wonders with this stuff), or it would be a logical development from existing technologies. That's how technology works. For the most part development follows a traceable pattern, broken by geniuses who (usually) make significant breakthroughs. And in all but a handful of cases, those breakthroughs lead to a significant number of attendant technological developments.

None of this occurs with Project Lazarus, making it a plot device and nothing more.

Modifié par iamthedave3, 25 mars 2013 - 04:04 .

[Seboist]

Project Lazderp was also a contrivance to fast forward two years and break up the squad.

[iamthedave3]

That too.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seboist wrote...

Project Lazderp was also a contrivance to fast forward two years and break up the squad.

Ding ding ding, come here and collect your winnings, sir. 

Exactly. Project Lazarus had no other purpose than one dictated by the by the narrative. Kill Shepard, indenture her to Cerberus, break up the squad, set a darker tone for the game, and reset the state of the galaxy in relation to the Reapers. 

It was never supposed to make sense and no effort was ever going to be made to incorporate it into the story, either logically, or as part of any character development.

[Big I]

I didn't like Project Lazarus but I went with it because that was the game. I would have much prefered it not be in there or be explained as Reaper tech, but ah well.


The thing that really annoyed me was there were only two or three minor opportunities for calling out how terrible Cerberus was. Shepard can't bring up Kahoku with anyone, and more egregiously Sole Survivor Shepard can't bring up the time Cerberus tried to get thresher maws to eat him and killed all but one member of his squad. That for me was frustrating.

[Getorex]

JasonShepard wrote...

Regarding the resurrection of Shepard - I don't believe that it is explicitly stated anywhere in the games or expanded media that Shepard actually underwent re-entry. It's implied - notably by Shepard heading towards the planet at the end of the opening sequence - but he could easily have ended up in orbit instead.
(Shepard also flickers at the end of that sequence, akin to the heated atmosphere that you see when something undergoes re-entry - however, since we can see the curvature of the planet at that range, there is no way he is touching the atmosphere yet.)

Anyway, here's a way they could have done it using exclusively in-universe tech:

TIM tells Miranda to "See to it that we don't lose him." In other words, before Shepard even dies, Miranda is to put contingencies into place to preserve Shepard's life if possible. The most vital part of Shepard is his brain - in a worst case scenario the rest can be rebuilt. If the brain suffers information death (ie, destruction of memories) then that can not be repaired. It's like trying to read a book after you've burnt it to ashes.

So - let's get Shepard a new helmet. It's Cerberus - they can probably arrange for something like that. This new helmet includes two secret modules, designed to activate if Shepard's life-signs start failing. The first is a stasis module - an experimental, tech version of the stasis effect that biotics can conjure (should be possible with the right circuitry and eezo). If Shepard is dying, this module freezes his brain in time, protecting it against bio-degradation.
The second module is advanced MRI scanner, which takes a 3D photograph of Shepard's brain. If any damage does occur to the brain (possibly due to the stasis unit running low on power), this scan could be used to repair the damage. It's no substitute for keeping the brain intact, but it's better than nothing.
(Cronos Station specifies Shepard as being brain dead - presumably the stasis unit was very low on power by the time that he had been recovered, so his brain had - slowly - crossed over to being clinically brain dead. This does not mean that all memories and personality have been destroyed - just that the brain is in no fit state to continue without repair.)

During the Lazarus project, Shepard's brain is kept in a stasis field while his body is repaired, and then, once his body is once again able to support it, re-constructive brain surgery is performed to repair the damage compared to the MRI photograph. This process can be used to explain any in-game shifts in character between ME1 and ME2.

Shepard's fingerprints were likely destroyed either by the vacuum of space or re-entry (fi you believe it happened) - however, the Alliance would have them on record, so Cerberus could reconstruct them.

If you want to insist that Shepard hit the planet, then N7 suits are quite advanced - I'm sure they come with space parachutes (N7s having notably been trained in space drops according to the codex.)
Yes, this is all headcanon. But to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't contradict any official information. The only reason I put this together is because ME2's opening did initially break my willing suspension of disbelief - until I worked out how it could have been done.

As for Shepard's helmet that you find on Nonuel - that was just a spare that went down with the Normandy...


Regarding the question of whether Shepard is still Shepard - I'd argue that there is a continuity of personality, so yes. However, it does come down to the philosophical question of whether an axe that has, on separate occasions, had its shaft, blade and bindings replaced, is still the same axe...

It's more than implied.  Look at that sequence.  He starts entering the atmosphere and producing a tail.  You see a glowing tail developing around him (OK, for those who do femshep...or her) and this clearly suggests re-entry.  If they'd left him drifting but with no suggestion at all that he was entering the atmosphere, OK, you could think he's stuck in some orbit but they didn't.  It also seems that the debris they depicted for project Lazarus being rejuvinated was a bunch of burnt, dried debris on the ground.  Even if the atmosphere on that planet wasn't thick and he didn't crisp on the fall he still would have impacted at terminal velocity.  POW!  And that AFTER he's been vacuum dried. 

On the philosophical question (that is suggested in ME3 when at Cronos station) I would argue that it doesn't actually matter.  If Shepard standing there has the memories and experience of, say, an original Shepard that is no more, then it doesn't matter that the original is gone.  The one standing there IS the real Shepard because he has ALL the memories, experiences, and traits of the original.  The fact that his then-current BODY didn't necessarily experience any of what he remembers is irrelevant and a mere technicality.  EVERYTHING else about him is as real as the original would be had he been standing there.  The clone Shepard lacked all that and ONLY had the body/appearance of Shepard.  Without the memories and experience encoded in his brain, he's NOT Shepard and can never be. 

If I get a new hard drive (I'm considering getting a solid state HD in fact...near instant bootup and app startup!) and copy all my files/programs over to the new drive (ghosting the drive/duplicating it rather than reinstalling everything) then the programs and their "experience" is unchanged, merely the platform carrying those "experiences" has changed...without any clue to the programs themselves. 

In any case, the game suggests that Shepard we play is THE Shepard, simply "resurrected" via another form of space magic. 

[Getorex]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

I didn't like Project Lazarus but I went with it because that was the game. I would have much prefered it not be in there or be explained as Reaper tech, but ah well.


The thing that really annoyed me was there were only two or three minor opportunities for calling out how terrible Cerberus was. Shepard can't bring up Kahoku with anyone, and more egregiously Sole Survivor Shepard can't bring up the time Cerberus tried to get thresher maws to eat him and killed all but one member of his squad. That for me was frustrating.

Yeah, I felt that too.  In ME1 EVERY single time you encountered Cerberus it was in a fight because EVERY SINGLE TIME they were doing something evil/nasty to humans OR aliens.  Every time.  Then you are supposed to buddy up to them in ME2.  So, my "real" Shepard runs in ME2 always had my Shepard suspicious or outright disagreeing with Cerberus/TIM whenever possible, and only had him working WITH them because the game gave us no choice.  Hell, I'd have prefered to drop Cerberus at Horizon and grab up Ashley and Garrus and Jack and go off independent of Cerberus. 

The writers simply tried to partially rehabilitate Cerberus in ME2 by trying to turn EVERY SINGLE ONE of the outrageous and unacceptable operations of Cerberus run into in ME1 into a slew of "rogue factions".  Heh.  An organization that is made up of nothing but rogue factions is itself a rogue faction.  If they are incapable of (or unwilling to/unabl to) control their operations such that a huge portion of them end up going rogue...well, then the entire organization is itself as guilty as their many MANY rogue groups at least, or outrageously incompetent at best. 

Modifié par Getorex, 25 mars 2013 - 04:19 .

[Auld Wulf]

Wayning_Star wrote...

that's funny Wulf, I currently think Iphones are work of a devil..

That's interesting. It's interesting because the modern cellphone has saved more lives than any individual ever will. It's been well documented if you want to look into it. That's what the progression of science does -- it increases the quality of life of the many, and increases the length of life.

Still, that technology would be seen as magic and devilry by those who find the concept unimaginable. There's the divide -- do you find a concept unimaginable? It's easy to think of something as being magic or devilry if you're incapable of imagining a point where technology could do such a thing. That's when it becomes witchcraft, or in the modern vernacular, that's when it becomes "space magic."

Millennia from now there will be things that we consider impossible, things that some people believe would require a miracle from some deity or other, that those future people would consider a minor hurdle. There are things we die of today that will be solved by the ingestion of a simple pill, tomorrow. There are things that, centuries ago, we considered impossible. Those things we now do with ease. There is no magic involved, simply ingenuity and progression. And ingenuity and progression can go as far as one can imagine.

How far can you imagine?

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 25 mars 2013 - 04:33 .