164 réponses à ce sujet

[Getorex]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

They should have just had Shepard be in a coma for two years; it would have been a lot more believable.

Much like with DA2 there's no real point to the time skip to begin with. The whole working with Cerberus and breaking up the squad could have happened without it.

True. And now that you mention it, I don't even see what the point of breaking up the squad in the first place was; considering how badly handled the whole "VS doesn't trust you" plotline was, and that Liara becoming the Shadow Broker went basically nowhere, leaving them out of ME2 didn't exactly add anything.

It added new, "colorful" characters (in Jack's case, literally).  Full stop.  It wasn't necessary but neither was Red, Blue, or Green death endings.

[RainbowDazed]

I didn't read the whole thread. Just wanted to say that the beginning of ME2 was AWESOME. Awesome.

I think the disbelief and the following lack of trust from former allies (and from players) was an important part of the story and what made it great. Only thing I wish is that they would've more strongly undermined the fact that reaper-tech was an integral part of bringing Shepard back. That should've been a continuous strong theme in ME2 and ME3.

Modifié par RainbowDazed, 26 mars 2013 - 01:55 .

[Dieb]

Yes, it would have worked in a novel only. Because it neglets the reason for Shepard's reconstruction, Mass Effect 2 being the first game availible on all systems. As every game writer emphasizes in every interview ever given on the matter, you have to put gameplay first and writing second.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 26 mars 2013 - 01:56 .

[Getorex]

RainbowDazed wrote...

I didn't read the whole thread. Just wanted to say that the beginning of ME2 was AWESOME. Awesome.

I think the disbelief and the following lack of trust from former allies (and from players) was an important part of the story and what made it great. Only thing I wish is that they would've more strongly undermined the fact that reaper-tech was an integral part of bringing Shepard back. That should've been a continuous strong theme in ME2 and ME3.

I saw no evidence in ME2 that Shepard's resurrection had ANYTHING to do with Reaper tech at all.  It was all just high-tech biomedicine/biomechanics.  No magic reaper juice anywhere.

[baudrahn]

Cerberus I didn't mind but they did for a pro-human organization seem to have an extraordinarily high kill of humans.

It was also a littile inexplicable how the organization became so powerful but you know, whatever.

Now Shepard's resurrection I didn't like not because of "space magic" but it changed the mythos of the character from, imo, an ordinary albeit extradordinary individual to a demigod, a figure of myth and I was much happier with the extraordinary individual whether it is Liara, or Wrex, or Jack et al or Shepard.

[Getorex]

baudrahn wrote...

Cerberus I didn't mind but they did for a pro-human organization seem to have an extraordinarily high kill of humans.

It was also a littile inexplicable how the organization became so powerful but you know, whatever.

Now Shepard's resurrection I didn't like not because of "space magic" but it changed the mythos of the character from, imo, an ordinary albeit extradordinary individual to a demigod, a figure of myth and I was much happier with the extraordinary individual whether it is Liara, or Wrex, or Jack et al or Shepard.

Yeah.  They are like SPECTRE in old James Bond movies.  Inexplicably big, well financed, and powerful.  Cerberus, a mere terrorist/merc organization, a rogue special op from the Alliance, becomes so large that they literally compare in might and resources, so it seems, to the Alliance itself. 

[Dieb]

Getorex wrote...

Yeah.  They are like SPECTRE in old James Bond movies.  Inexplicably big, well financed, and powerful.  Cerberus, a mere terrorist/merc organization, a rogue special op from the Alliance, becomes so large that they literally compare in might and resources, so it seems, to the Alliance itself. 

But that's ME3. In the second game, I think they do very well come across as this shadowy organization that is more than well funded, but still has to rely on secret operations due to a lack of pure strength in numbers.

Even the obduction of civillians and "volunteers" to be turned into Reaper-tech-enhanced footmen makes sense in a way... it's the short timespan in which it is done that's just weird.

[andy6915]

Cerberus' recent economical and resource boost probably came from Henry Lawson. After Miranda left, he probably made the partnership then. And considering that guy is one of the richest people in the galaxy... A councilor financially supporting them probably helped too.

[Dean_the_Young]

Baelrahn wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Yeah.  They are like SPECTRE in old James Bond movies.  Inexplicably big, well financed, and powerful.  Cerberus, a mere terrorist/merc organization, a rogue special op from the Alliance, becomes so large that they literally compare in might and resources, so it seems, to the Alliance itself. 

But that's ME3. In the second game, I think they do very well come across as this shadowy organization that is more than well funded, but still has to rely on secret operations due to a lack of pure strength in numbers.

Even the obduction of civillians and "volunteers" to be turned into Reaper-tech-enhanced footmen makes sense in a way... it's the short timespan in which it is done that's just weird.

It's the fleet that gets me, honestly. Fabricators can explain small arms and armor, and shuttles are a relative dime a dozen, but the fleet?

I'm biased, but this would have explained their presence better...

[nos_astra]

Getorex wrote...
I disagree BUT believe it would only properly work in a novel rather than in the game.  

That sounds like video games are essentially doomed to have craptastic storytelling.

I'd like to believe that video games can be more than gameplay with inferior storytelling to justify killing more people.

[Auld Wulf]

They had indoctrination devices, no? All they'd have to do is indoctrinate a few shipyards, Alliance and alien.

Edit: I'm basically suggesting that they could pull Leviathan-like shenanigans by leaving indoctrination boosters at relevant locations. This could have allowed them to capture shipyards. In one of the Cerberus bases, there are logs of a person who's going through 'initiation' and after that initiation they are clearly being mind-controlled. So I always felt that that was the source of their newfound armies and resources.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 26 mars 2013 - 03:35 .

[Mr.House]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

They should have just had Shepard be in a coma for two years; it would have been a lot more believable.

Much like with DA2 there's no real point to the time skip to begin with. The whole working with Cerberus and breaking up the squad could have happened without it.

True. And now that you mention it, I don't even see what the point of breaking up the squad in the first place was; considering how badly handled the whole "VS doesn't trust you" plotline was, and that Liara becoming the Shadow Broker went basically nowhere, leaving them out of ME2 didn't exactly add anything.

Very simple. They where making ME2 for the PS3 version and they kne without ME the new players would be either confused or not care about old characters. Thus they made 10 new characters that could die(why would they do this?) then shoved Garrus and Tali in there for fan service and so they could say they did not forget about the old fans. ME2 reeks of being a newbie game, right down to it's design.

[Getorex]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Baelrahn wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Yeah.  They are like SPECTRE in old James Bond movies.  Inexplicably big, well financed, and powerful.  Cerberus, a mere terrorist/merc organization, a rogue special op from the Alliance, becomes so large that they literally compare in might and resources, so it seems, to the Alliance itself. 

But that's ME3. In the second game, I think they do very well come across as this shadowy organization that is more than well funded, but still has to rely on secret operations due to a lack of pure strength in numbers.

Even the obduction of civillians and "volunteers" to be turned into Reaper-tech-enhanced footmen makes sense in a way... it's the short timespan in which it is done that's just weird.

It's the fleet that gets me, honestly. Fabricators can explain small arms and armor, and shuttles are a relative dime a dozen, but the fleet?

I'm biased, but this would have explained their presence better...

OK, that was a lot of effort to get through (though less effort than it took to create that) but I have to say I like your setup more than just about any other I've read.  Well done.  Too bad it is all for naught.  Maybe some future reboot of ME (1 to 4 or 5).

[Getorex]

klarabella wrote...

Getorex wrote...
I disagree BUT believe it would only properly work in a novel rather than in the game.  

That sounds like video games are essentially doomed to have craptastic storytelling.

I'd like to believe that video games can be more than gameplay with inferior storytelling to justify killing more people.

Video games are MUCH more expensive to produce than novels.  A single writer in his or her own time writes a novel.  A boatload of coders, writers, execs, etc, are involved in game production.  They will do the cheapest thing they can while still putting forth the core of what they want.  Thus, I believe that most gaming IS doomed to be fairly craptastic in story-telling and play.  They aim low: at short-attention-span shooter fans, at easy-to-entertain ******-and-ass fans, at commodity players with consoles and just an hour or two to play before they want to move on to the next shooter fest, etc.

[Seboist]

Mr.House wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

They should have just had Shepard be in a coma for two years; it would have been a lot more believable.

Much like with DA2 there's no real point to the time skip to begin with. The whole working with Cerberus and breaking up the squad could have happened without it.

True. And now that you mention it, I don't even see what the point of breaking up the squad in the first place was; considering how badly handled the whole "VS doesn't trust you" plotline was, and that Liara becoming the Shadow Broker went basically nowhere, leaving them out of ME2 didn't exactly add anything.

Very simple. They where making ME2 for the PS3 version and they kne without ME the new players would be either confused or not care about old characters. Thus they made 10 new characters that could die(why would they do this?) then shoved Garrus and Tali in there for fan service and so they could say they did not forget about the old fans. ME2 reeks of being a newbie game, right down to it's design.

ME2 is just a writers' playground with little regard for anything else. Just with Thane you could tell the rationale behind a lot of things was "if it sounds cool add it!".

ME2 is even pointless in the context of itself. There's no point in recruiting some of these characters to begin with(why do I need an assassin?) and the daddy issue loyalty missions don't advance the collector plot one iota.

[Getorex]

Seboist wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

They should have just had Shepard be in a coma for two years; it would have been a lot more believable.

Much like with DA2 there's no real point to the time skip to begin with. The whole working with Cerberus and breaking up the squad could have happened without it.

True. And now that you mention it, I don't even see what the point of breaking up the squad in the first place was; considering how badly handled the whole "VS doesn't trust you" plotline was, and that Liara becoming the Shadow Broker went basically nowhere, leaving them out of ME2 didn't exactly add anything.

Very simple. They where making ME2 for the PS3 version and they kne without ME the new players would be either confused or not care about old characters. Thus they made 10 new characters that could die(why would they do this?) then shoved Garrus and Tali in there for fan service and so they could say they did not forget about the old fans. ME2 reeks of being a newbie game, right down to it's design.

ME2 is just a writers' playground with little regard for anything else. Just with Thane you could tell the rationale behind a lot of things was "if it sounds cool add it!".

ME2 is even pointless in the context of itself. There's no point in recruiting some of these characters to begin with(why do I need an assassin?) and the daddy issue loyalty missions don't advance the collector plot one iota.

They give you something to do!  The Garrus mission also shows you how little a "friend" he is (he is put forth as a truly good friend in ME3) since you don't have his loyalty even after ME1 such that you have to win it for him by helping him assassinate some guy. 

ME2 was fun to play so long as thought wasn't put into any of they who, what, where, and why of the game.

[Kenshen]

Getorex wrote...

They give you something to do!  The Garrus mission also shows you how little a "friend" he is (he is put forth as a truly good friend in ME3) since you don't have his loyalty even after ME1 such that you have to win it for him by helping him assassinate some guy. 

ME2 was fun to play so long as thought wasn't put into any of they who, what, where, and why of the game.

The way I look at Garrus's loyalty mission just shows how much of a friend Shep is not the other way around.  Garrus is feeling the pressure of a ton of guilt over losing his squad.  Then I finds the one who betrayed the team and asks his friend for help in dealing with it.  It doesn't surprise me at all if Shep refuses that Garrus would not be at his best during the SM.  He already is questioning his ability to lead before that mission and what kind of friend would you be if you didn't help out a buddy.  The last thing I would want from a friend and team mate when facing a mission like the SM is for him to start second guessing himself because his confidence is shot.

[Ravensword]

Mr.House wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

They should have just had Shepard be in a coma for two years; it would have been a lot more believable.

Much like with DA2 there's no real point to the time skip to begin with. The whole working with Cerberus and breaking up the squad could have happened without it.

True. And now that you mention it, I don't even see what the point of breaking up the squad in the first place was; considering how badly handled the whole "VS doesn't trust you" plotline was, and that Liara becoming the Shadow Broker went basically nowhere, leaving them out of ME2 didn't exactly add anything.

Very simple. They where making ME2 for the PS3 version and they kne without ME the new players would be either confused or not care about old characters. Thus they made 10 new characters that could die(why would they do this?) then shoved Garrus and Tali in there for fan service and so they could say they did not forget about the old fans. ME2 reeks of being a newbie game, right down to it's design.

ME2 would've worked best as more of a standalone game than as an actual sequel when you consider all the multitude new characters introduced into the game, and b/c of ME2's plot has little to do w/ stopping the Reapers.

[David7204]

Boy, are there some moronic posts in this thread.

[David7204]

Tell me, what exactly are your complaints with Lazarus?

[SpamBot2000]

Seboist wrote...

ME2 is even pointless in the context of itself. There's no point in recruiting some of these characters to begin with(why do I need an assassin?) and the daddy issue loyalty missions don't advance the collector plot one iota.

You keep making these disparaging remarks about "daddy issues", but those are some pretty common and profound issues.

[The Heretic of Time]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

ME2 is even pointless in the context of itself. There's no point in recruiting some of these characters to begin with(why do I need an assassin?) and the daddy issue loyalty missions don't advance the collector plot one iota.

You keep making these disparaging remarks about "daddy issues", but those are some pretty common and profound issues.

Common? Yes? Profound? Perhaps. More important than stopping an insectoid species from harvesting human colonies to create a human reaper? LOL NO.

[David7204]

I'm curious. Do you think that posting on the BSN is 'more important' than...whatever else you could be doing?

[SpamBot2000]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

ME2 is even pointless in the context of itself. There's no point in recruiting some of these characters to begin with(why do I need an assassin?) and the daddy issue loyalty missions don't advance the collector plot one iota.

You keep making these disparaging remarks about "daddy issues", but those are some pretty common and profound issues.

Common? Yes? Profound? Perhaps. More important than stopping an insectoid species from harvesting human colonies to create a human reaper? LOL NO.

But it's not like you choose to either tackle some daddy issues or stop the Collectors. You get to do both.