209 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
I think it would be great if people didn't pre-order games at all, honestly. These aren't consoles, where only a limited amount are manufactuee and are going to be shipped in. Not many game store these days are going to not have a new game in stock. So all you are buying is the hype, or some promotional piece of DLC. 
Of which if anyone buys said bits of shameless marketing hooks, don't blame anyone but yourself for being reeled in like a fish. 
So no pre-order from me as well, regardless of how awesome-sauce a game looks. Then again, I'm not starting threads to declare this off the mountain tops either, so... there is that.

Might it not depend what benefits pre-ordering provides?  Or is there no possible benefit that would say you?
For instance, we know that pre-orders often come bundled with extra DLC.  People who don't pre-order don't get that DLC.  Now, if that DLC is purchasable separately, then refusing to pre-order simply carries a monetary cost, and that cost only exists if you ultimately do want that DLC.  But what if the etra pre-order content was pre-oder exclusive?  What if you couldn't buy it separately?  That changes the balance of costs considerably?
Or are you simply not considering this possibility because you don't expect publichers would do it?  And yet, we've seen this already with retailer-specific exclusives.

I certainly would expect publishers/developers to include pre-order only content in the form of DLC.

I would call such behavior extremely tacky... and that's putting it nicely.

But I would say that is never worth it. Because no matter what the content is, the behavior itself encourages poor developer/publisher actions. The game should be judged on its stand-alone merits alone. Anything extra should be considered not part of the product at all. Like the novels. Or like the anime. Completely ancillary to the experience.

Developers who do things otherwise are behaving in a way that is not at all in my view of practices that should be given money or further incentive.

I was under the impression that the "bonuses" are just items that are taken out of the game and used as incentives for pre-orders.

[MerinTB]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
I rarely preorder (even before digital). The only ones I preorder are the ones I want to play asap (last game for that was Alpha Protocol I think).

I used to pre-order all my games on Amazon before I went digital.  Now there's really zero incentive for me to pre-order, unless (like BioShock Infinite) that it means I also get a free digital short story and three other games for free.

So I did technically pre-order Alpha Protocol.  And while I was interested and eager for the game, considering how much I love it and played it way too much, I didn't anticipate it nearly enough!

DA:I will likely be an Amazon or Steam sale for me.

[Allan Schumacher]

I...I am really glad you played Alpha Protocol and liked it. Any insights about it?

It's
gameplay was definetely hit and miss, but once you basically bear with
it, or in my case abuse the OP abilites, you can get to the story
(hello, pistol chain shot) then it's story can be very satisfying. The
independence ending is really great. The only thing that ever made me
feel the same self empowerment was the Fallout New Vegas NO gods NO
masters ending.

IMO it's the best conversation system I have seen in an RPG in terms of feeling natural.  I think they did a great job with the reactivity as well (especially a lot of the more subtle stuff).

Mechanics wise it struggled in places.  There were some issues such as lockpicking speeds being determined by game performance (lower frame rates made it more challenging because the tumblers actually moved slower) and things like that which are bad.  The PC controls made hacking problematic.  Balance issues with the combat do exist, but I think it's overstated (If I specialized in any combat style, I never had any real problems).  Jerk Mike is also amazing.  And Steven Heck.  Steven Heck.

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
The only "Oh damn" part of preordering Alpha Protocol was the lack of sleep I had to endure the following day

Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I thought you didn't and that's why you stopped pre-ordering. As for me, I have a Target right down the street that never seems to run out of copies of the games I want. Are the pre-order bonuses actually designed using the game's budget or do you have a small team dedicated to that stuff?

Nah, it's more a statement that I rarely preorder.  Alpha Protocol is one of my favourite games.

I don't know the full cost of doing things like pre-order bonuses.  Doing the item packs and the like are done because of an arrangement made with Gamestop (the impression I get is they give us money to make preorder exclusives for their store).  I'd say the level of work needed to be done for those item packs is not very expensive compared to other aspects of development.  It does mean more work for more than just the artists though (i.e. QA will have to test with permutations of item packs and whatnot to make sure they are working).  If there's any tie in to the main budget, my guess would be that it's factored in from the start (i.e. when working up the budget, someone can say "Based on previous arrangements we've been able to get X dollars from retailers for preorder incentives, so we have that money available to us")

Something like cross promotion offers is probably more budgeted on the benefits of getting money sooner.  Not sure exactly how it works or how it motivates it.  Could also be money coming from the other studio (despite being under the EA umbrella, each studio still has its own budgets and whatnot, just because it helps spot out inefficiencies and the like.  So EA Madrid will charge BioWare Edmonton for localization at a set rate.  In the end it's money moving around internally for EA so the cost to them isn't particularly high, but I think it's better in that it helps examine how time and money is being spent.  If we could consider VO and Localization "free" then it'd be easy for us to say "All languages for everyone! It costs us nothing!" while Madrid cries.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 25 mars 2013 - 10:51 .

[grumpymooselion]

It's always nice to see people give Obsidian a nod, in regard to the portions they do well.

-

Pre-orders should never be compulsory. They should be earned, but through quality and surety of the product, not through bribing players by holding content hostage behind an, 'only if you pre-order' wall.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Nah, it's more a statement that I rarely preorder.  Alpha Protocol is one of my favourite games.

I don't know the full cost of doing things like pre-order bonuses.  Doing the item packs and the like are done because of an arrangement made with Gamestop (the impression I get is they give us money to make preorder exclusives for their store).  I'd say the level of work needed to be done for those item packs is not very expensive compared to other aspects of development.  It does mean more work for more than just the artists though (i.e. QA will have to test with permutations of item packs and whatnot to make sure they are working).  If there's any tie in to the main budget, my guess would be that it's factored in from the start (i.e. when working up the budget, someone can say "Based on previous arrangements we've been able to get X dollars from retailers for preorder incentives, so we have that money available to us")

Something like cross promotion offers is probably more budgeted on the benefits of getting money sooner.  Not sure exactly how it works or how it motivates it.  Could also be money coming from the other studio (despite being under the EA umbrella, each studio still has its own budgets and whatnot, just because it helps spot out inefficiencies and the like.  So EA Madrid will charge BioWare Edmonton for localization at a set rate.  In the end it's money moving around internally for EA so the cost to them isn't particularly high, but I think it's better in that it helps examine how time and money is being spent.  If we could consider VO and Localization "free" then it'd be easy for us to say "All languages for everyone! It costs us nothing!" while Madrid cries.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

[Fiddzz]

frankf43 wrote...

No he'll probably be playing before release date. lucky devil:)

we play it every day..

[bclagge]

Blair Brown wrote...

frankf43 wrote...

No he'll probably be playing before release date. lucky devil:)

we play it every day..

Oh you...

[Darth Krytie]

Blackrising wrote...

Hilarious. When I first read this, I was like...thanks for the announcement?

[Brockololly]

MerinTB wrote...
I used to pre-order all my games on Amazon before I went digital.  Now there's really zero incentive for me to pre-order, unless (like BioShock Infinite) that it means I also get a free digital short story and three other games for free.

Yup! I rarely preorder games unless they're ones I know I have time to play right away and they're games that I've been anticipating for a long time. BioShock Infinite is just such a game! 

Just in terms of extras you get from preordering, I kind of like what 2K has going with Infinite in just giving away full games along side it. I preordered from GreenMan Gaming and I got Bioshock Infinite, BioShock, XCOM and a choice for a third game, plus the option for $15 cash back or $15 store credit. Thats a pretty great deal, IMO. And offering full games like that is a whole hell of lot more enticing than some random armor/weapon pack or something of that sort.

And it helps that a game like Infinite already has so many reviews out and even normal people playing already giving impressions, while there is still time to preorder.

[Sabariel]

Cue pic of Natalie Portman clapping sarcastically.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Honestly if buying Bioware and to a lesser extent EA games has taught me one thing its to never preorder games.

1. Its a waste of money, last week I got Dead Space 3 for a fiver.

2. If you don't preorder you can actually find out if the game is worth its money, which Biowares last two game were not.

[Mathias]

I trend VERY carefully when it comes to Bioware games nowadays.

[Fast Jimmy]

I always thought a smart thing to do was to offer the DLC for your previous game for free right before release. Maybe even include this as a pre-order incentive.

If you ordered the game, say, six weeks in advance, you'd get the unlock codes for the previous game DLC the day you pre-ordered it. Then you'd have a few weeks of replaying a game and getting to see all the extra content you wouldn't have seen otherwise.

It saves you all the cost of repackaging a game and trying to sell it as an Ultimate Edition (or what have you) while, at the same time, allowing the player to play all of your DLC. This would increase value for your previous game, it would make previous DLC less of a concern to connecting to the story (since there would be no barrier for players to not have played it, therefore your base where mentioning the content that might feel confused by such would be smaller) and, of course, you'd increase fan enjoyment level and loyalty.

Just a thought.

[bclagge]

Yeah, I dunno. I had always heard ME was a good game, so when ME3 was coming out I snatched up 1 and 2 for a song. Little did I know. They made a mint on me from DLC for the first two games.

Modifié par bclagge, 26 mars 2013 - 12:43 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Pre-order cancelled Bioware.

[DPSSOC]

Liamv2 wrote...

I don't see why anyone would pre-order any game ever

Speaking from personal experience I've actually had every retailer in my city sell out of copies of a game on release day.  Every Walmart, every Game Stop, every Best Buy, etc. all of them were sold out.  So I've preordered in the past just to secure a copy at a particular store on release day, so I don't have to go hunting for it.  Also pre-ordering allows me to spread out the cost of the game.  Rather than paying $60+ up front I can pay 10 here, 20 there, etc.

Having said that I won't be pre-ordering DA:I, I just don't see it selling that well on release day that I'm going to have to hunt for it.

[K_Tabris]

I'm glad I took the time to watch that video. The guys over at Clevernoobs make some interesting observations on the gaming industry. One issue the video missed was the whole sticky DRM thing, but the dang video was already 33 min long.

I don't see activism with wallets working too well since dlc and micro-transactions are still such a hit. What I do see as inevitable is the downfall of EA unless they decide to invest time into their games. Quality over quantity is the only hope we have of seeing DA:I miss the terrible fate of ME3. It would be nice to see EA care about delivering a good product rather than trying to stay ahead of an inevitable bankruptcy.

[Angrywolves]

We play it every day . Blair Brown just loving to rub it in the faces of us fans. Thanks a lot ! The question is there going to something spectacular that you can only get from preordering through a certain vendor, Best Buy, Gamestop. Amazon, or whomever and if so when will we be told about it ?

[Allan Schumacher]

As QA, playing it everyday isn't really a fantastic experience....

[Ianamus]

It was a good video, but I have never been and will still never be convinced by the "EA are to blame for Mass Effect 3's ending" argument. Bioware are 100% responsible for the writing in their games, bad or good, and with the rest of the game at such a high quality I can't believe the ending was due to anything other than a bit of shoddy writing.

Modifié par EJ107, 26 mars 2013 - 01:43 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

As QA, playing it everyday isn't really a fantastic experience....

But it has to be better than playing DA2 everyday, right?