199 réponses à ce sujet

[JJDrakken]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Eh. If someone feels EA takes advantage or has some other motivation for feeling EA games should not be purchased, I encourage them to stick to their guns and stand up for what they believe in.

I have, I've yet to purchase Mass Effect 3, do to my major hatred for Origin.(Again, I never mentioned Steam or I love Steam or anything about Steam, yet everytime I say I dislike Origin, everyone runs out claiming Steam this or that, or I love Steam, etc..)


JJ

Modifié par JJDrakken, 31 mars 2013 - 07:54 .

[Solmanian]

Because when you says origins we assume you mean DA:O... EA client is origin, singular.

[DragonMage95]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Forum Ronin wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I hope I am wrong in the end, but honestly, I would bet money that there will be a large minority of people out there who will hate on BioWare because "EA", or "Mass Effect 3" or "Dragon Age II", a sort of reason that will have little to do with Inquisition or its quality. And thats a shame in the end, but also somewhat expected when a cultural touchstone is created. 

Do you really think theres no difference between the Star Wars prequels and the originals, and that people just hate the prequels for no reason?  Or that there's no difference between DAO/ME1 and newer Bioware games?  Even the developers have admitted their games continue to progress in a different direction from older games.  I think the people who are unhappy with that genuinely dislike that direction.  You and I are free to agree or disagree with them, but its a matter of different tastes, and I think its a dangerous mindset to writing off, villainize, and dehumanize people as just "magically hating things for no reason".

I dont think you'd find the argument of "You just love anything Bioware makes." as your reason for liking their games to be a valid argument, so I don't see why its a valid argument when turned around.

Since you added this quick reply...

To the latter part, I didn't say that so don't put words in my mouth. 

Regarding Star Wars, it was an example of a divide in fanbases over something they love. There is a difference of course, but frankly, some of the hate is unwarranted, much like what I see around here sometimes. I am just going to outright say it, Phantom Menace was a good movie, and the best of the three prequel movies by far, because it was the closest in tone to the previous Star Wars movies overall. 

Does it matter that I think this? No. As a fan I can have such an opinion. Am I wrong, sure. Enough crap in the movie can justify the opposite opinion.  But it won't stop me from being a fan in the end either if I think something sucks, and that is the part that I don't understand, the way some fans turn their allegiances on a dime for whatever reason it may be, and never look back because they felt burned. That to me boggles my mind. 

It boggles my mind as well. Fans of the Star Wars prequels get crap because the other fans think they sucked, I personally love all the Star Wars movies and Revenge of the Sith was one of my favorite movies from the prequels.The same happens on BSN. I hate how if someone liked MA3 or DA2 they get crap and are looked at as dumb fans. I remember once someone said I was a mindless drone because I didn't hate DA2 and I said I wasn't worried about DA3. 

[Avalon The Elf]

I will to get a copy on release day honestly

[DragonMage95]

Avalon The Elf wrote...

I will to get a copy on release day honestly

I'll probably do the same if pre-ordering doesn't come with anything interesting. 

[Twisted Path]

Willowhugger wrote...

NOBODY does games like Bioware does but Bioware.

From the OP. For me the thing is that Bioware doesn't seem to make those games anymore. I've been playing their games since Baldur's Gate, loved and enjoyed every single one of them (with the exception of the origional campagne for Neverwinter Nights, but hey, I've probably spent more time playing the good NWN mods than I have playing other Bioware games,) until Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3.

I really disliked both of those games. Thought they were a huge deviation from the tried and true style of RPG I had been enjoying all these years. Dragon Age 2 was just terrible, Mass Effect 3 was mediocre and dumbed down. I'm not angry or outraged or anything, it just seems like Bioware has probably stopped making the sorts of games that I enjoy playing.

[unbentbuzzkill]

^^ I sadly agree.

[bclagge]

Twisted Path wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

NOBODY does games like Bioware does but Bioware.

From the OP. For me the thing is that Bioware doesn't seem to make those games anymore. I've been playing their games since Baldur's Gate, loved and enjoyed every single one of them (with the exception of the origional campagne for Neverwinter Nights, but hey, I've probably spent more time playing the good NWN mods than I have playing other Bioware games,) until Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3.

I really disliked both of those games. Thought they were a huge deviation from the tried and true style of RPG I had been enjoying all these years. Dragon Age 2 was just terrible, Mass Effect 3 was mediocre and dumbed down. I'm not angry or outraged or anything, it just seems like Bioware has probably stopped making the sorts of games that I enjoy playing.

http://eternity.obsidian.net/

https://torment.inxi...ertainment.com/

[PaulSX]

Sadly, I probably will pre-order DAI for the same reason. BioWare seems to be the only company who is still doing AAA-budget party-based rpgs right now.

[goose2989]

Pre-orders give very little real value to consumers; you get a few in-game items that, realistically, have no impact on your gaming experience. Sure, you might get a cool robe, or unique set of armor. But when it's all said and done, you have the same game that most consumers get from buying it over the counter.

I have no desire to "blacklist" BioWare because of past mistakes, but because of those mistakes I'll be a more cautious consumer, and I won't buy the game on day-one. Even if it's reviewed well from media outlets I trust, I still plan on waiting a few days to see what fans say about it.

[Ravensword]

Any sort of cool armor or weapons that you get from pre-orders will be made available later on via DLC.

[goose2989]

suntzuxi wrote...

Sadly, I probably will pre-order DAI for the same reason. BioWare seems to be the only company who is still doing AAA-budget party-based rpgs right now.

It won't be long before a different company comes along and provides a similar product that BioWare makes. While I'm still relatively young (24) and am unfamiliar with the gaming world before recently, I'm sure people were saying the same thing about X developer that is now just another brand name. I can imagine someone like Square Enix had the same type of fanbase, say 10 years ago. 

I can already see CD Projekt Red becoming a developer similar to BioWare within the next five years. Or any other small RPG developer that is still up-and-coming. 

Despite all this, I don't imagine, nor hope, BioWare collapses and fades into video game history. 

[goose2989]

Ravensword wrote...

Any sort of cool armor or weapons that you get from pre-orders will be made available later on via DLC.

That's another reason I hate pre-orders, especially from BioWare. All of the extra in-game content I was "rewarded" with by buying ME3's Collector Edition was practically given away less than a year after release. This is because BioWare was too cheap and lazy to create new content for players that bought DLC like Omega. 

Pre-order content should remain unique to those who pledged their money in advance. Bungie did this right; when I bought the Legendary Edition of Reach, I got unique armor and armor effects that only buyers of the Legendary Edition got, without exception. It wasn't sold to normal customers six months later. 

[Twisted Path]

bclagge wrote...

Twisted Path wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

NOBODY does games like Bioware does but Bioware.

From the OP. For me the thing is that Bioware doesn't seem to make those games anymore. I've been playing their games since Baldur's Gate, loved and enjoyed every single one of them (with the exception of the origional campagne for Neverwinter Nights, but hey, I've probably spent more time playing the good NWN mods than I have playing other Bioware games,) until Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3.

I really disliked both of those games. Thought they were a huge deviation from the tried and true style of RPG I had been enjoying all these years. Dragon Age 2 was just terrible, Mass Effect 3 was mediocre and dumbed down. I'm not angry or outraged or anything, it just seems like Bioware has probably stopped making the sorts of games that I enjoy playing.

http://eternity.obsidian.net/

https://torment.inxi...ertainment.com/

Yeah, I actually gave a bunch of money to Project Eternity and am looking forward to the game. I'm a little more dubious about the "spiritual sucessor" to Torment they've been pushing because it seems like a marketing gimick but if it turns out to be a good game I'll certainly buy it when it comes out.

Bioware stopped making the sort of games that appeal to me and maybe these indie studios started making them instead. And if any great games come out of it I'll be happy to throw my money at those indie studios.

[PaulSX]

goose2989 wrote...

suntzuxi wrote...

Sadly, I probably will pre-order DAI for the same reason. BioWare seems to be the only company who is still doing AAA-budget party-based rpgs right now.

It won't be long before a different company comes along and provides a similar product that BioWare makes. While I'm still relatively young (24) and am unfamiliar with the gaming world before recently, I'm sure people were saying the same thing about X developer that is now just another brand name. I can imagine someone like Square Enix had the same type of fanbase, say 10 years ago. 

I can already see CD Projekt Red becoming a developer similar to BioWare within the next five years. Or any other small RPG developer that is still up-and-coming. 

Despite all this, I don't imagine, nor hope, BioWare collapses and fades into video game history. 

I do not see how CDP is similar to BioWare although fellows on BSN seems to like comparing them.  As a fan of the genre, Dragon Age is still a special franchise for now. 

[FoxShadowblade]

JJDrakken wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Eh. If someone feels EA takes advantage or has some other motivation for feeling EA games should not be purchased, I encourage them to stick to their guns and stand up for what they believe in.

I have, I've yet to purchase Mass Effect 3, do to my major hatred for Origin.(Again, I never mentioned Steam or I love Steam or anything about Steam, yet everytime I say I dislike Origin, everyone runs out claiming Steam this or that, or I love Steam, etc..)


JJ

Comment removed by Moderator as inappropriate

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 01 avril 2013 - 12:19 .

[Patchwork]

goose2989 wrote...

I can already see CD Projekt Red becoming a developer similar to BioWare within the next five years. Or any other small RPG developer that is still up-and-coming. 

I have the same feeling. CD Projekt Red haven't yet released a game that appeals to me but I think it's just a matter of time before they make something that I will love as much as DA or KOTOR.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 01 avril 2013 - 02:18 .

[Mathias]

Willowhugger wrote...

You know what bugs me about fandom? They threw an EPIC fit over Mass Effect 3's ending (perhaps with good reason) and Dragon Age 2 (underwhelming) but all this talk about "being burned" it makes me wonder what exactly they think the alternatives are going to be when/if Bioware doesn't suceed.

Skyrim?
Kingdom of Alamaur? (Oh wait, they don't exist anumore)

NOBODY does games like Bioware does but Bioware.

The characters, the romance, the politics, and everything is awesome.

I'd probably stop playing video games altogether if I couldn't play in their space opera or fantasy worlds.

So I'm pre-ordering Dragon Age: Inquisition because even if it's not as good as DA:O, it'll still be better than 90% of what's out on the market.

Not everyone is a narrow minded slave to Bioware like you, and i don't mean that as an insult. But you need to broaden your gaming horizon here. I agree other companies don't make games the same way Bioware does, but at the same time Bioware's games have dropped in quality over the past couple of years. Fans are upset over DA2 and ME3 not because we're entitled brats, but because Bioware made a lot of mistakes and are doing things a lot of their core fanbase are upset with. The publisher, developers and drones may call it "gamer entitlement", but you know what i call it? I call it not being a follower, and having willpower over your spending habits.

Are we to say no matter how bad their games get, we have to keep buying them because nobody makes games in the same style as Bioware?

The Witcher 2 was a better rpg than DA2 in almost every way possible, and now we've got the 3rd game on the way. Not to mention Cyberpunk 2077, Shadowrun Returns, Planescape Torment 2, Project Eternity, etc etc. There are plenty of alternatives to Biowares RPGs on the way.

I'm not preordering DA3 or ME4 because I know better. If you put a monkey in a cage and place a big red button that shocks him every time he pushes it. Then guess what? After 1-2 pushes, that monkey is gonna learn not to push the goddamn button. It's called adapting. Many of Bioware's fans and former fans have adapted after getting burned by their past 3 games, and are now either cautious about pre-ordering, or have decided not to all together. Of course there are fans who will pre-order no matter what, but if they're gonna enjoy something no matter how good or bad it is, then whatever more power to em.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 01 avril 2013 - 04:03 .

[duckley]

I don't think I have ever pre-ordered a game.... but if DA:I comes with some interesting stuff, I would.
 
I will buy the game first day though.

[ABCoLD]

Willowhugger wrote...

You know what bugs me about fandom? They threw an EPIC fit over Mass Effect 3's ending (perhaps with good reason) and Dragon Age 2 (underwhelming) but all this talk about "being burned" it makes me wonder what exactly they think the alternatives are going to be when/if Bioware doesn't suceed.

Skyrim?
Kingdom of Alamaur? (Oh wait, they don't exist anumore)

NOBODY does games like Bioware does but Bioware.

The characters, the romance, the politics, and everything is awesome.

I'd probably stop playing video games altogether if I couldn't play in their space opera or fantasy worlds.

So I'm pre-ordering Dragon Age: Inquisition because even if it's not as good as DA:O, it'll still be better than 90% of what's out on the market.

This is why I kicked Project Eternity, Torment: Tides of Numenara, Wasteland 2, etc. etc.  The fact that I thought that a third person shooter RPG was OK (Me1 and 2) was a freaking miracle, frankly.

[LinksOcarina]

bclagge wrote...

Twisted Path wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

NOBODY does games like Bioware does but Bioware.

From the OP. For me the thing is that Bioware doesn't seem to make those games anymore. I've been playing their games since Baldur's Gate, loved and enjoyed every single one of them (with the exception of the origional campagne for Neverwinter Nights, but hey, I've probably spent more time playing the good NWN mods than I have playing other Bioware games,) until Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3.

I really disliked both of those games. Thought they were a huge deviation from the tried and true style of RPG I had been enjoying all these years. Dragon Age 2 was just terrible, Mass Effect 3 was mediocre and dumbed down. I'm not angry or outraged or anything, it just seems like Bioware has probably stopped making the sorts of games that I enjoy playing.

http://eternity.obsidian.net/

https://torment.inxi...ertainment.com/

I already backed Eternity, and I am worried beyond belief for it because of what they have included. To put it frankly, with the myriad of updates they keep doing, I am getting less and less impressed by Obsidians work, which is not exactly a good thing since i shelled out $100 for a collectors edition.

If it is a question of a game in its style, that doesn't mean anything until I see the contents of the said game. So far, I am not as impressed as I was when they first announced it.

[LinksOcarina]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

You know what bugs me about fandom? They threw an EPIC fit over Mass Effect 3's ending (perhaps with good reason) and Dragon Age 2 (underwhelming) but all this talk about "being burned" it makes me wonder what exactly they think the alternatives are going to be when/if Bioware doesn't suceed.

Skyrim?
Kingdom of Alamaur? (Oh wait, they don't exist anumore)

NOBODY does games like Bioware does but Bioware.

The characters, the romance, the politics, and everything is awesome.

I'd probably stop playing video games altogether if I couldn't play in their space opera or fantasy worlds.

So I'm pre-ordering Dragon Age: Inquisition because even if it's not as good as DA:O, it'll still be better than 90% of what's out on the market.

The Witcher 2 was a better rpg than DA2 in almost every way possible, and now we've got the 3rd game on the way. Not to mention Cyberpunk 2077, Shadowrun Returns, Planescape Torment 2, Project Eternity, etc etc. There are plenty of alternatives to Biowares RPGs on the way.

I cut out everything else because I had to comment on this, so sorry if i'm singling you out. 

One, the first part is subjective, and if we were to take pros/cons from both they are on par in the end. Cyberpunk we know little about other than multiplayer confirmed and you create your own avatar, the rest are unproven because they aren't released yet, nor will we know if they will be sucessful or well received by fans after release. Its basically a gamble.

Oh, and Planescape Torment 2 doesn't exist. Tides of Numenara is NOT Planescape Torment, and I wish they would drop the ****ing Torment title from it already and be done with their marketing scheme to promote it. 

I agree they can good alternatives, but don't speculate on things until they actually are released to judge them for their own merits. For now its at best speculation, at worst a waste of time. Also, a tad narrow in scope as well, but thats another debate I won't get into. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 01 avril 2013 - 06:02 .

[Mathias]

LinksOcarina wrote...


I cut out everything else because I had to comment on this, so sorry if i'm singling you out. 

I'm sorry that you feel sorry for practicing your 1st Amendment rights.

One, the first part is subjective, and if we were to take pros/cons from both they are on par in the end. Cyberpunk we know little about other than multiplayer confirmed and you create your own avatar, the rest are unproven because they aren't released yet, nor will we know if they will be sucessful or well received by fans after release. Its basically a gamble.

Here's what I do know. CD Projekt Red is a proven company in terms of quality, that cares about the gamers, is willing to take risks, and have obviously demonstrated they're putting a lot of serious thought into this game. Not only that, but the developers are fans of the Cyberpunk universe and have Mike Pondsmith overseeing the project itself.

Here's what I know about Bioware. They're a company that was taken over by the reviled Electronic Arts, and have for the past 2 years, dropped in quality and pissed off their fanbase on numerous occasions. Their games are slowly abandoning the companies RPG roots, in order to attract the casual fanbase that EA wants dearly. Given what the devs have mentioned regarding DA3, (mostly of wanting Skyrim's audience so bad they can taste it, and how proud they are to be LGBT friendly), there hasn't been anything about this game so far that has filled me with intrique.

With that said, i'm still very open towards DA3, so i'm not out to dislike it no matter what. I'm sure we'll see some stuff at E3 or sometime soon, and then i feel like i can judge it better. But at this time, if it's a gamble, then i'm betting the whole pot that Cyberpunk will shape up to be a better RPG than DA3. 

Oh, and Planescape Torment 2 doesn't exist. Tides of Numenara is NOT Planescape Torment, and I wish they would drop the ****ing Torment title from it already and be done with their marketing scheme to promote it. 

Who cares? It's a sequel.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 01 avril 2013 - 07:22 .

[LinksOcarina]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Who cares? It's a sequel.

No, its not a sequel. Saying so wrong.


but i'm not going to derail a thread for that any further. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Final Fantasy 10 is a sequel to Final Fantasy 9. And they are set in different universes, with different characters, have different styles, use different systems and utilize very different plots.

A sequel is a sequel if they market it as such. DA2 was a sequel because it was marketed as such. The Dragon Age Facebook game was not (despite being themeatically and content-wise more similar to DA:O than DA2 was) because the creators said it was.