236 réponses à ce sujet

[ChaosMorning]

Since the (not so) new information that we'll be able to play a fine atheistic or agnostic character in DA: Inquisition was released I have been thinking about a few things in relation to the Andrastian faith and magic...                                   

• There have been theories made, and Anders himself mentioned in the Legacy DLC that he believes the Chantry's version of the darkspawn creation is propoganda against mages and that the darkspawn were not created by any supposed corruption of a 'Golden City'
  
• This point  can of course be disputed when we see that Corypheus, one of the original magisters, had entered the Golden City.  He said something about the City, that it was either already Black or that it was corrupted as soon as the magisters entered.
  
• The Black City can supposedly be seen in the Fade. I don't know what to say for this one.
  
• Andraste herself. There was some speculation in game (by way of a book/gift for Wynne) that had stated Andraste was actually a mage, not the Maker's beloved.   
  
• The Urn of Sacred Ashes: the Urn isn't proof itself, Oghren states that the Urn could have gotten its powers from lyrium exposure as opposed to being blessed.

None of this is really 'new' but I am wondering what people are hoping will be mentioned about the Andrastian faith in Inquisition.

Personally I like the vagueness of it all, but I hope some of these themes are revisited, in particular the idea that Andraste was a mage and that her Ashes were lyrium addled as opposed to being blessed.

Modifié par ChaosMorning, 25 mars 2013 - 11:34 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

I've never found the religion in Dragon Age compelling enough to make feel one way or the other. It's like a twisted version of Christianity and I don't find myseld caring at all about the Chantry or the Maker or Andraste.

[Willowhugger]

I'm inclined to think that the Maker should remain nebulous. It's the Dragon Age version of God so finding out it's some sort of gigantic Fade spirit would kill the illusion. What I would like is to find out the Maker/God has nothing to do with the Black City at all and this is all the Chantry co-opting real-life stuff.

If God exists in the DA universe, it's not in the Fade.

[Trolldrool]

I'm perfectly fine with what Bioware have done so far. Leave a lot of clues that can imply an atheist solution to many of the Maker's supposed miracles, but never completely confirm or deny it.

[KiwiQuiche]

Well, if DAI pulls a Dark Souls where you can kill the gods themselves then I'm game for the Maker revealing himself.

[Willowhugger]

EntropicAngel wrote...

These always go well.

I think the Dragon Age universe is kind of a cool way to discuss real-life religious stuff in a fantasy environment without offending people.

[Iakus]

 I'm hoping it will be noticed that an awful lot of dieties seem to have gone dormant or missing:  The Maker, the elven Creators and Forgotten Ones, the Old Gods.

In addition, I wonder if the exact meaning fo the phrase "magic exists to serve man, never rule over him" will be debated

[Willowhugger]

Isn't that why it's a good thing to discuss religion via Dragon Age?

But yes, I always give my characters strong religious feelings.

Cousland Warden HATED the chantry and worshiped the Old Gods.

Mage Warden was a Deist.

My Hawke was a Chantry believer.

[Eternal Phoenix]

To expand on the OP...

• Corypheus, one of the original magisters, had entered the Golden City.  He said something about the City, that it was either already Black or that it was corrupted as soon as the magisters entered. This confirms The Chant of Light being accurate in the regards that the Black City was corrupted when mages entered it.
• The Urn of Sacred Ashes aside and we have that immortal guardian there who knows of your past (as well as the past of your companions) and can read your thoughts. Can that be explained by lyrium? Oghren's comment is simple speculation. We don't even see lyrium in the dungeon. Considering none of the mages in your party make the same comment I think it's fair to say that Oghren is wrong.
• The Urn of Sacred Ashes cures The Arl Demon. Magic failed before so the theory of the ashes healing The Arl Demon because of the supposed lyrium in them is garbage.

In conclusion I think The Chantry is right. The only "evidences" supporting the contrary is a comment from a demon (which are known to lie) to p*** off a handsome awesome uber religious templar knight (who the ugly mages are jealous off) who instantly saw through its lies. Oh and then there's a propaganda book written by some random ugly mage that was so crap that the mage himself partially burnt it afterwards before taking his own life.

We even discover that the Archdemons reside in caverns underground (very deep in the Deep Roads) once again confirming the Chantry's account. Meanwhile Corypheus is a darkspawn so clearly The Chant of Light saying that mages were turned into darkspawn is correct. Likely the rest is correct too.

I think it's better without seeing The Maker.

On another note I'm not that big on The Chantry but The Templars are awesome so STFU mages coz you're all going to get burned in DA3:I. Gaider himself told me that there are no mages in DA4 because they die out in DA3. Don't believe me? You just wait and see.

Mages suck very hard. Never forget.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 26 mars 2013 - 12:40 .

[Willowhugger]

The thing is, the Chantry is also objectively wrong according to Corphyeus.

He says they DIDN'T corrupt the city.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Corphyeus blurts out random parts of dialogue. The fact that he was a mage, now a darkspawn and mentions going to The Golden City with his friends proves The Chant of Light is accurate in the regards of the origins of the darkspawn.

[BlueMagitek]

The Urn, or Guardian at least, is a bit curious, given that he can actually sense Shale's soul.

[MisterJB]

Willowhugger wrote...

The thing is, the Chantry is also objectively wrong according to Corphyeus.

He says they DIDN'T corrupt the city.

Corypheus said that the City was corrupted. Now, the most simple conclusion is that the City had been corrupted long before.
However, he also says that they sought the "Light". Unless the phenomenon of the City being visible from the Fade is a new one, it stands to reason that the Magisters would have been able to see it before Dumat provided them with instructions on how to invade it and that, at that time, it would have been luminous rather than the darkness that it is in the Dragon Age. Thus, it is possible, even probrable, that the City was instantaneously and entirely corrupted the milisecond the Magisters entered.

Modifié par MisterJB, 26 mars 2013 - 01:40 .

[Trolldrool]

We never really have proof that the City was ever golden. For all we know, the mages of Tevinter just believed so strongly that it was golden that it always appeared that way to them in the distance when they entered the Fade.

I'm more interested in what Dumat hoped to gain from giving them the information needed to enter the City, if in fact it was an ancient sentient dragon that directed them. That if anything to me implies there was something in the City that the Old Gods needed, but for some reason couldn't reach themselves.

[MisterJB]

Trolldrool wrote...
I'm more interested in what Dumat hoped to gain from giving them the information needed to enter the City, if in fact it was an ancient sentient dragon that directed them. That if anything to me implies there was something in the City that the Old Gods needed, but for some reason couldn't reach themselves.

My guess is: The Taint.
Dumat must have known what would happen if the Magisters entered; regardless if the Taint already existed or not; and he also knew that releasing the Taint into Thedas would lead to his freedom.

Modifié par MisterJB, 26 mars 2013 - 01:43 .

[dragondreamer]

My elf mage Warden is Andrastian partly because he can go into the Fade, look up, and SEE the Black City for himself. He's not the really religious sort, but he feels like he's seen too much to handwave it. He believes in the Maker, but he's iffy about the Chantry itself.

I think there's half-truths among the different beliefs in Thedas. The real picture may be something none of them know anymore, if they ever did. I doubt we'll get a complete explanation, but I hope we learn more, I love a mystery.

[AshenShug4r]

I'm playing a Taoist Inquisitor.

[RepHope]

MisterJB wrote...

Trolldrool wrote...
I'm more interested in what Dumat hoped to gain from giving them the information needed to enter the City, if in fact it was an ancient sentient dragon that directed them. That if anything to me implies there was something in the City that the Old Gods needed, but for some reason couldn't reach themselves.

My guess is: The Taint.
Dumat must have known what would happen if the Magisters entered; regardless if the Taint already existed or not; and he also knew that releasing the Taint into Thedas would lead to his freedom.

That is a possibility.  He could have thought that if he had his servants seize the Makers power he could force them to free him. Or it could have been his way of giving the Maker the finger for imprisioning him, by having his servants corrupt the Makers home. I don't think Dumat wanted to be TAINTED exactly but he did probably want freedom

[Willowhugger]

I'd be cool if the Old Gods were explained as nothing more than Pride Demon/Dragon Abominations.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

Trolldrool wrote...
I'm more interested in what Dumat hoped to gain from giving them the information needed to enter the City, if in fact it was an ancient sentient dragon that directed them. That if anything to me implies there was something in the City that the Old Gods needed, but for some reason couldn't reach themselves.

My guess is: The Taint.
Dumat must have known what would happen if the Magisters entered; regardless if the Taint already existed or not; and he also knew that releasing the Taint into Thedas would lead to his freedom.

But it didn't lead to his freedom at all, but insanity, corruption and death. It's possible that Dumat could have wrongly guessed; it's possible, too, that even Dumat thought that the city was supposed to be golden, but that the whole thing was some kind of trap... or a remnant of a previous world, far older than the Thedas we know of.

[Xilizhra]

Personally, I'd be happy with the Old Gods being bona fide gods.