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[The Six Path of Pain]

commander root657 wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Atheists don't exist in Thedas according to Gaider.

XD

My Warden would disagree lol

 I think any atheists in Thedas are fools if they do not  believe the chantry to some degree



EDIT: Also even if the old gods and the maker aren't true gods they're probably as close as you can get to one

Why?...And I agree with the Archdemon/Old Gods since they pretty much are the most powerful beings in Thedas.

[The Six Path of Pain]

sarnokh wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Atheists don't exist in Thedas according to Gaider.

XD

My Warden would disagree lol

In essence: atheism is in Thedas impossible per se. Similar as in the European Middle Ages. Not believing in God or Old Gods anything is an impossible figure of thought under such circumstances. Only decaying city civilisations with all their usual degenerative features harbour atheism, like Ancient Rome before the fall, Hellenism before it's fall and the West of present day. Especially under the expected repression, atheism would mean quick death. But even without repression: nobody would come to think atheistic. It simply is not within the psychology of such cultural setting.

OK mister how about this...My canon warden is a cousland who grew up believig in the maker and the chant of light like any other human.But then came that one horrible night where virtually his entire family was slaughtered by a man his father once called a friend.He think why would the maker allow this to happen to his family,what is the reasoning behind it.And on that night my Warden lost his faith in the maker and the chant of light,casting it aside as nothing more then a worthless lie...Is that a good enough reason.

P.S.Ahhh the beauty of roleplaying 

Modifié par The Six Path of Pain, 03 avril 2013 - 02:32 .

[KiwiQuiche]

...lol there were athesists during the Middle Ages. But they were killed/burned for being heathens and whatnot for not believing in the giant invisible hand.

Atheism isn't some 'new fab' despite what some people think.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 03 avril 2013 - 02:56 .

[Jorina Leto]

sarnokh wrote...


I was DM of the German P&P game "The Dark Eye" for 25 years, and we had discussions a few times about atheist characters, and I always said: no. It makes no sense when the work of Gods is evident and not, as in our world, a matter of belief.

Andrastian priests do not perform miracles, the priest of the twelve gods do perform miracles.

In Dere PCs can meet the gods. In Thedas even the sacred ashes are ambiguous. The massice lyrium veins are a possible rational explanation.
What about the archdemons or dhe Old Gods? We haven't seen any prove of their divinity. What did we see? One powerfull dragon.

sarnokh wrote...
That is the difference. Magic, higher realms, Demons, Spirits - they are not speculative in Thedas, they are real.

Why do magic, the fade, demons, spirits (who have no prove of the existence of gods, just ask Justice) prove the existence of gods?

This is a fantasy world. The existence of gods is matter of canon. So unless a DA game prove gods, atheism is a possibility. And even here the prove must be seen by the masses and not just the PC, to make atheists stupid fools.

[Kommunicating]

Hmm.. interesting theories. You know, I actually find the Elven Pantheon, the Creators, more intriguing than the Maker. It's actually speculated that Flemeth is Fen'Harel, the Dread Wolf.

Modifié par Kommunicating, 03 avril 2013 - 04:08 .

[Kidd]

Ferretinabun wrote...

sarnokh -

That seems remarkably extreme, to completely forbid a particular attitude or opinion. Surely a character should be able to hold any opinion or worldview the player wishes? As DM, you can certainly make certain attitudes taboo, heretical or persecuted, but to actually make them off-limits to players is very dictatorial.

"Rules are good! Rules help CONTROL the fun!" - Monica, Friends

I don't see the problem with setting up rules in general. There can be good reasons to limit characters to specific races, classes, alignments or even religions when they're created with a specific campaign in mind. It's hard to tell the story of the avengers of the burning of Tinyville if they do not hail from Tinyville. Similarly, if a classic, heroic quest is in mind, it may be difficult to allow evil characters.  Most things can be limited for the better of the story in the end.

That said, it must be limited for a reason or it will only remove options with no gain. The idea was that limiting atheism to nonexistence was for the benefit of making the setting believable, which is not a gain I do not believe in myself since it's simply not true to me.

Kommunicating wrote...

Hmm.. interesting theories. You know, I actually find the Elven Pantheon, the Creators, more intriguing than the Maker. It's actually speculated that Flemeth is Fen'Harel, the Dread Wolf.

And some think Flemeth is the Maker, or that the Dread Wolf is Flemeth and/or the Maker. Damn this interesting lore, can't wait to learn more...! XD

[esper]

Add me to the chorus pointing out that a deity is absolutely not evident in dragon age.
The Fade is not supernatural in dragon age, it (like magic) is a part of the world's nature, also the Fade is not a 'higer' realm. It is a dream realm there is a difference. (It is also a pretty concrete dream realm at that)

Demon, spirits only have the virtue/sin attributes according to the Andrastian faith, other cultures such as the dalish flat out just call them spirits and see them as beings in the Fade, no more - no less. I have no idea how the dragon praying old Tevinters saw the Fade and its being.(as tools perhaps).

One of the thing I love about dragon age is that religion is a quesiton about faith and not facts.

[Uccio]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Being worshipped as a god doesn't make you a real deity. The Old Gods being worshipped as gods doesn't mean they were actually gods - it simply means some people worshipped them as gods.

But but.. You can offer a sacrifice to Dumat in one of the dlc´s and he answers!

Also, there is a change that those dragons were avatars for the Old Gods. And when they were cut out of this world their avatars went to sleep. Even though they were extremely powerfull awaken, they were still just dragons.

Modifié par Ukki, 03 avril 2013 - 10:12 .

[esper]

Ukki wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Being worshipped as a god doesn't make you a real deity. The Old Gods being worshipped as gods doesn't mean they were actually gods - it simply means some people worshipped them as gods.

But but.. You can offer a sacrifice to Dumat in one of the dlc´s and he answers!

Also, there is a change that those dragons were avatars for the Old Gods. And when they were cut out of this world their avatars went to sleep. Awaken they were still extremely powerful, but still just dragons.

Dumat doensn't answer. You simply get a 'gift', and you have no idea if that is what was originally intented or not with the ritual.

Also there were demons in that Alter if you destroyed it.

Personally I think that the old gods where the dragons version of mages. They certainly seems to have some interest in the Fade.

[Pierce Miller]

 I'm kind of excited about it...the whole athiesm thing Something funny about blaspheming to templars and chantry mothers:devil:

[Noctis Augustus]

Ecreip Rellim wrote...

 I'm kind of excited about it...the whole athiesm thing Something funny about blaspheming to templars and chantry mothers:devil:

You can't according to David Gaider. You can however express doubt. This is a very different game from DAO. You have DAII and sequel DAIII, DAO was a separate game.