236 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

I explained it as the First Enchanters have the right to complain and that's about it.

[BlueMagitek]

LobselVith8 wrote...

karushna5 wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

The Chantry doesn't consider magic or magic users inherently evil.

No, but it sure as hell treats it like it is. I wish there wasn an option to express the belief the chantry only allows magic users to exist because they're useful against the Chantry's foes.

Actually, if you look into it, the First Enchanter decides to go to war, they are not made to do it by the Templars. The Chantry isn't kind to the mages, but it IS the mages who decide who to fight and when, not the Templars.

The fact that Greagor only permitted seven mages to fight at Ostagar would suggest it's a little more complicated than that.

Considering what happened there, I'd say that this could be seen as a wise decision.

[karushna5]

Willowhugger wrote...

I explained it as the First Enchanters have the right to complain and that's about it.

They decide stuff for the cicle as long as it doesn't go against the You shall not leave rule, or Blood magic rule, they have some wide abilities. I think it can be seen with Gregoir and Irving who bicker and disagree where to take it forward, but are often equals within those walls. It is complicated, not saying the Chantry are good people but they don't kill a mage if they don't shine their boots.

Most things are a bit more Grey than we like to show it, sadly DA2 did not show the true Grey area of mages and made both sides very Black instead.

[Willowhugger]

FYI - Andraste as a dragon isn't actually that unbelievable if you go with the idea she's a mage. Presumably she just did what Flemeth did with a dragon.

[hazarkazra]

Willowhugger wrote...

FYI - Andraste as a dragon isn't actually that unbelievable if you go with the idea she's a mage. Presumably she just did what Flemeth did with a dragon.

Wait, so when Andraste asked Flemeth she did got to be dragon. This is not fair 

Modifié par hazarkazra, 28 mars 2013 - 12:42 .

[lil yonce]

Willowhugger wrote...

FYI - Andraste as a dragon isn't actually that unbelievable if you go with the idea she's a mage. Presumably she just did what Flemeth did with a dragon.

Or if you ponder the Haven cult worshiping a dragon and claiming it to be Andraste.

[lil yonce]

hazarkazra wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

FYI - Andraste as a dragon isn't actually that unbelievable if you go with the idea she's a mage. Presumably she just did what Flemeth did with a dragon.

Wait, so when Andraste asked Flemeth she did got to be dragon. This is not fair 

Maybe Andraste is Flemeth! 

[Nightdragon8]

Willowhugger wrote...

FYI - Andraste as a dragon isn't actually that unbelievable if you go with the idea she's a mage. Presumably she just did what Flemeth did with a dragon.

or Flemeth is Andraste and the Chantry just made up alot of stuff, wouldn't be the first time that has happened in history.

And she is just trying to undo what the Old gods did to themselves.

[Willowhugger]

Or if you ponder the Haven cult worshiping a dragon and claiming it to be Andraste.

Let's not get crazy here.

[lil yonce]

Willowhugger wrote...

Or if you ponder the Haven cult worshiping a dragon and claiming it to be Andraste.

Let's not get crazy here.

They may have been nuts, but their beliefs may not have been far off the mark. Andraste could be a shapeshifter.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 28 mars 2013 - 01:18 .

[Ridwan]

My inquisitor will be hardcore religious to make up for you atheist lot.

[Willowhugger]

My Mage Hawke-Warden was a believer in the Maker. He also had a dire loathing of the Chantry.

[LobselVith8]

M25105 wrote...

My inquisitor will be hardcore religious to make up for you atheist lot.

There's an entire continent of people who are religiously Andrastian. I don't think a protagonist who is atheist in Andrastian society is going to tip the celestial balance. My Surana Warden thinking that the belief in the Maker was a "ridiculous superstition" certainly didn't change the fact that his companions Alistair, Leliana, and Wynne were religiously Andrastian.

[10K]

I don't really have a strong opinion on the Chantry, it's seems like an okay thing for the most part. But I dislike they feel they have the right to lock up an individual against their will just because of magic. I understand blood mages and mages who seek power can be dangerous, but that's not all mages. Mages should be allowed to live freely just like any other individual. So if they continue thinking they have the power to dictate others should live, I will continue rolling with by bro Anders and blowing up every single Chantry.

[MisterJB]

Terrorism until demands are granted IS a strong opinion.

[10K]

MisterJB wrote...

Terrorism until demands are granted IS a strong opinion.

I'm talking about the Chantry as a whole, It's not a bad thing. They do good work. But when it comes to the treatment of mages that when my opinion changes, it's not the chantry who to blame for this. Because the majority of the fault goes to the Templars.

And I agree what anders did was terrorism, but it needed to be done.  It showed how corrupted the templars are. One mage did the act of violence but they blamed them all, calling forth the right of annulment.

[Xilizhra]

Filament wrote...

That's not terrorism, that's just taking the fight to the oppressors.

The oppressors, of course, will call it terrorism. Who's right has yet to be revealed.

[MisterJB]

mosesarose wrote...
I'm talking about the Chantry as a whole, It's not a bad thing. They do good work. But when it comes to the treatment of mages that when my opinion changes, it's not the chantry who to blame for this. Because the majority of the fault goes to the Templars.

And I agree what anders did was terrorism, but it needed to be done.  It showed how corrupted the templars are. One mage did the act of violence but they blamed them all, calling forth the right of annulment.

If you believe that certain areas of the Chantry; namely, the Circle System; must absolutely change and are willing to commit acts of terrorism to see it happen, then you have a strong opinion regarding the Chantry even if you don't care in the sligthest about who keeps the Eternal Fire blazing.

As for Meredith's RoA, that's for another thread. Suffice it to say, I don't believe it's as simple as you make it out to be. If you want me to elaborate, just PM me so we don't hijack this thread.

[Maria Caliban]

Xilizhra wrote...

Filament wrote...

That's not terrorism, that's just taking the fight to the oppressors.

The oppressors, of course, will call it terrorism. Who's right has yet to be revealed.

As someone who doesn't live in the game world, I'd say that 'I'm going to blow up every, single chantry until my demands are met' does fit the concept of terrorism. After all, if you want to kill Templars, the majority of them are at the Circle. It's deliberately targeting non-combatants in order to intimidate the Chantry and the governments of Thedas.

If the threat was to target chantries with high ranking Chantry members or that held a large number of Templars, I'd think differently.

[TheJediSaint]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Filament wrote...

That's not terrorism, that's just taking the fight to the oppressors.

The oppressors, of course, will call it terrorism. Who's right has yet to be revealed.

As someone who doesn't live in the game world, I'd say that 'I'm going to blow up every, single chantry until my demands are met' does fit the concept of terrorism. After all, if you want to kill Templars, the majority of them are at the Circle. It's deliberately targeting non-combatants in order to intimidate the Chantry and the governments of Thedas.

If the threat was to target chantries with high ranking Chantry members or that held a large number of Templars, I'd think differently.

At least in fiction, the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is that a terrorist is will delibaratly target civilians.

[Trolldrool]

In the eyes of every terrorist, they are freedom fighters, fighting to liberate the subjugated masses, to which they believe they belong, from an oppressive and corrupt authority. They believe that peaceful efforts will inevitably be brushed aside and ignored as the only language their oppressors understand is violence. So they blow things up.

And for that matter, most of the clergy men and women in the chantry are civilians. Regular people who have absolutely no influence on the templars' doctrine or treatment of mages. They live seeking deeper spiritual understanding of their faith and do their part to provide for the city's impoverished, homeless and disabled. The Chantry as an organization might be prone to corruption and extremism, but that doesn't make every initiate a legitimate target.

[Xilizhra]

And for that matter, most of the clergy men and women in the chantry are civilians. Regular people who have absolutely no influence on the templars' doctrine or treatment of mages. They live seeking deeper spiritual understanding of their faith and do their part to provide for the city's impoverished, homeless and disabled. The Chantry as an organization might be prone to corruption and extremism, but that doesn't make every initiate a legitimate target.

Actually, the only people in the Chantry when it was blown up were Elthina, Meredith's commander, and a bunch of templars. So we saw in the cutscene, at any rate.

[MisterJB]

Filament wrote...

I thought the difference was that terrorists employ terror. Whereas mage freedom does not predicate that its enemies feel terror... only death.

If Anders was interested in killing those who "opress" the mages so the mages can be free, he should have struck the Gallows, not the Chantry. What he wanted was to scare non-mages across the continent into acting against the mages who would, in turn, fight the non-mages thus leading to a war that, for better or worse, would change the current system.
He is using fear to strike against what he perceives to be an unnaceptable system so it will change much like the Resolutionists were already doing. It's textbook terrorism.