445 réponses à ce sujet

[Red Panda]

Well, the Reapers were the good guys. This thread makes sense.

[KENNY4753]

@Auld Wulf

1. save them at what cost. Controlling them likes slaves just as they enslaved the Geth. Legion tells use the Geth want the destruction of the Old Machines.

2. Ruthlessly Slaughter them? First we dont even know if the Catalyst is honest with us saying the Crucible will not discriminate. If it doesnt discriminate Control should make the Geth our slaves as well.

[Alienboy411676]

Auintus wrote...

So the width of the forced choice surpasses its depth? To clarify: The number of individuals affected by a decision is more important than the degree to which those individuals are affected?

That depends on the numbers.  When the numbers are 1,000's to 1,000,000,000,000's (thousands to trillions) then yes, the number of individuals affected is more important than the degree to which they are affected.  

In addition, I have already expressed that I believe Synthesis would cause deaths also.  

Auintus wrote...

I think you overestimate the degree of panic that would be experienced. Those hit by the wave don't even flinch.
I don't see how you think that it would result in that degree of chaos.

I'm not talking about the wave itself, I'm talking about the effects of Synthesis.  Imagine if earth right now were subjected to the Synthesis wave: First, a giant, inexplicable green wave from outer space slams into our planet.  Then humans find themselves glowing green with technological implants.  ...I believe there would be some serious chaos to follow.  Firstly, the panic it would cause.  Second, humanity as it is now, would not be mentally ready to handle the effects of Synthesis.  It would take a great deal of time for humans to cope with it within their society.  A lot of major changes would have to be made, which would take time.  Third, who is to know how mentally disturbed people would deal with Synthesis? Or criminals?  The results of Synthesis would be extremely dangerous for the humans of today, as it probably would be for most, if not all, non-space-faring civilizations.  

Hence, why I believe Synthesis is an irresponsible, dangerous choice, and yes, would very likely result in a large number of deaths.  

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

@Auintus the Geth were willing to die given no other alternative if it meant destroying the Reapers. Every race is. Otherwise they wouldnt have joined us in the first place.

I'm pretty sure if one geth remained and you told them that you could have saved them, but you chose to ruthlessly slaughter them all, they'd be fairly ticked off.

. If there was just one geth unit left it'd be busy acting like a worm.

[KENNY4753]

Also @Auld Wulf

I love how you added "given no othe alternative" to my post. So way to put words in my mouth

[Applepie_Svk]

KENNY4753 wrote...

Also @Auld Wulf

I love how you added "given no othe alternative" to my post. So way to put words in my mouth

He was learning from the minister of propaganda in Germany back in 1939...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 28 mars 2013 - 09:23 .

[Auld Wulf]

KENNY4753 wrote...

@Auld Wulf

1. save them at what cost. Controlling them likes slaves just as they enslaved the Geth. Legion tells use the Geth want the destruction of the Old Machines.

2. Ruthlessly Slaughter them? First we dont even know if the Catalyst is honest with us saying the Crucible will not discriminate. If it doesnt discriminate Control should make the Geth our slaves as well.

Sigh.

1.) They were controlled to control the geth in turn. They didn't choose to control the geth. That's your headcanon which is contradicted by the game. The Reapers are slaves, a slave isn't able to make any choices by the merits of being a slave.

2.) It is ruthless. And it is slaughter. What's not to understand? You're playing with semantics for the sake of semantics. And why would Control make the geth slaves? Where did you get that from? What? By the end of ME3, the geth are either free willed or dead, either way they're not bound to Reaper will. How could you miss that?

I dunno... sometimes I do wonder if you people are being serious, because honestly? I mean, please... take the time to read my reply, then read it again. At least try to understand. I'm getting to the point where I'm having trouble taking this seriously.

[Bill Casey]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Also @Auld Wulf

I love how you added "given no othe alternative" to my post. So way to put words in my mouth

He was learning from the minister of propaganda back in Germany back in 1939...

Is Auld Wulf German?
I know Iedra is German...

[KENNY4753]

take your own advice and read my post then read it again and try to understand.

2. I never said it does control the Geth in the Control ending. Again take your own advice and read my post. I said it should control them due to the Catalyst dialogue. It said that the Crucible will not discriminate and effect all synthetics so if it destroys all synthetic logically it should control all synthetics too. And before you play the "well the catalyst only controls the Reapers so the Geth dont apply" card let me say this. The Geth have Reaper tech in them and there are still Reaper controlled Geth out there so the Catalyst does technically control (some) Geth. So why wouldnt Shepard?

[Bill Casey]

KENNY4753 wrote...

there are still Reaper controlled Geth out there so the Catalyst does technically control (some) Geth. So why wouldnt Shepard?

That's a good point...
Like I needed more things to bother me about the ending...

[KENNY4753]

Bill Casey, there are too many reasons to count that bother people about the endings. Im sure 1 more wont make it worse

[Vortex13]

Vortex13 wrote...

Megaton_Hope wrote...

The people whose bodies were harvested to create the Reapers are dead, because when you're rendered down into a slurry, that's it for your brain activity, which is the place where consciousness resides.

The Reapers may still want to exist, but that's a separate entity from the people whose lives were extinguished to create them.

^ This.

The Reapers are NOT the civilizations that were rendered down and processesed into a Reaper, they are a completely seperate entity. What the race was before being harvested is dead and gone. Sure the Reaper might have access to knowledge of said society, but that's just it, knowledge, facts, an encyclopedia in the form of a giant robot cuttlefish. Sovreign (Nazara) is a new existance from what he was before.

I liken the Reapers to zombies that way, once an infected person turns they are dead and gone, and what is left is a new creature. A zombie might (depending on the setting) have memories of the person before becoming infected, but as a zombie they are not that person. That is not your wife, that is a recently created zombie, it has its own wants and desires (namely brains) and it will fight to preserve (no pun intended) its existence by eating non-infected.

I agree with the OP in the sense that there is no mercy killing involved in Destroy, because the Reapers are their own seperate species; there is no Leviathan Reaper, or Human Reaper, there is only Reapers. Now if one wants to judge them on the atrocities their species has committed, that's fine, but "putting the harvested cycles out of their misery" doesn't work because there is no harvested cycles to be in misery.

Just my opinion on the matter.

[KonguZya]

"You--whatever species you came from before the Reapers decided to "preserve" them? They're dead. They died thousands of years ago. And now they can rest in peace."

[Auintus]

KENNY4753 wrote...

@Auintus the Geth were willing to die if it meant destroying the Reapers. Every race is. Otherwise they wouldnt have joined us in the first place.

Exclusively? When there are other available options? Note that Legion was willing to attack Shepard, who is well known to be the only real chance of winning the war, to secure the future of the geth.

[Auintus]

Alienboy411676 wrote...

That depends on the numbers.  When the numbers are 1,000's to 1,000,000,000,000's (thousands to trillions) then yes, the number of individuals affected is more important than the degree to which they are affected.  

In addition, I have already expressed that I believe Synthesis would cause deaths also.  

Huh. I disagree, but I suppose that's a matter of opinion.

I'm not talking about the wave itself, I'm talking about the effects of Synthesis.  Imagine if earth right now were subjected to the Synthesis wave: First, a giant, inexplicable green wave from outer space slams into our planet.  Then humans find themselves glowing green with technological implants.  ...I believe there would be some serious chaos to follow.  Firstly, the panic it would cause.  Second, humanity as it is now, would not be mentally ready to handle the effects of Synthesis.  It would take a great deal of time for humans to cope with it within their society.  A lot of major changes would have to be made, which would take time.  Third, who is to know how mentally disturbed people would deal with Synthesis? Or criminals?  The results of Synthesis would be extremely dangerous for the humans of today, as it probably would be for most, if not all, non-space-faring civilizations.  

Hence, why I believe Synthesis is an irresponsible, dangerous choice, and yes, would very likely result in a large number of deaths.  

The breaking point is that everyone is improved. People have no increased advantage over other people. The slides show no significant change in everyday life following Synthesis. And remember the live-action part of the ending? Turian looking at his glowing arms like, "Huh. That's not something you see every day." Noteworthy, but not panic-inducing, and they had basically just as much knowledge of Synthesis as any under-developed race.

Modifié par Auintus, 28 mars 2013 - 04:38 .

[Drewton]

Auld Wulf wrote...

I dunno... sometimes I do wonder if you people are being serious, because honestly?

Troll on!

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Drewton wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

I dunno... sometimes I do wonder if you people are being serious, because honestly?

Troll on!

He's really quite good at it.


Good show old boy!

[teh DRUMPf!!]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Well, the Reapers were the good guys. This thread makes sense.

They weren't "good" guys. They just weren't "bad" guys, either.

For that reason, I disregard the general demeanor previously exhibited by the Reapers.

The same way I disregard whatever "personality" I see of an indoctrinated person, as it's not really them - you know?

[ghost9191]

too be fair. it could be considered a mercy killing. if there was something far worse planned for them


personally i just blow them up because i am so smrt





and lul....  they are the definition of "bad" guys .

Modifié par ghost9191, 28 mars 2013 - 05:21 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

ghost9191 wrote...

and lul....  they are the definition of "bad" guys .

Okay, well, I really have no clue why people continually insist on this claim despite the development at the end of ME3.

Other than backing it with "sounds like"-nonsense.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 28 mars 2013 - 05:25 .

[ghost9191]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

and lul....  they are the definition of "bad" guys .

Okay, well, I really have no clue why people continually insist on this claim despite the development at the end of ME3.

Other than backing it with "sounds like"-nonsense.

well it is . google it or villian. as a story they are the "bad guy"   technically

and well by "our" standards they are kinda lol. what they are doing is wrong. so bad to most... but technically they are

[teh DRUMPf!!]

ghost9191 wrote...

well it is . google it or villian. as a story they are the "bad guy"   technically

and well by "our" standards they are kinda lol. what they are doing is wrong. so bad to most... but technically they are

Well yeah, that's true, I didn't mean it that way.

I just feel like, I don't hold the "bad guy" responsibile if someone/something is controlling him/her.

It would be like if Cerberus rebuilt Shepard with a control-chip and made him a loyalist. Again, diminished responsibility, IMO!

[Dendio1]

Meh, why destroy when you can control...or liberate?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Dendio1 wrote...

Meh, why destroy when you can control...or liberate?

Duh, because killing big things with explosions is awesome.


Also Cuttlefish are horrible creatures, their robotic cohorts even more so.

[Redbelle]

KENNY4753 wrote...

Also @Auld Wulf

I love how you added "given no othe alternative" to my post. So way to put words in my mouth

Taking words of paragraphs out with a *snip* is fine in my view, if you want to focus on one thing that was said, But to add words and by extention, new context to anothers post is bad netiquette.

Bad Wulf. Very bad Wulf!

Modifié par Redbelle, 28 mars 2013 - 08:32 .