445 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

Read the description for the Awakened Collector. All the Leviathans did is break their control from Harbinger.

"Took the consciousness from the Reaper and put it into the Collector"? What the f**k kind of nonsense is this?

[Auld Wulf]

Khelish wrote...

My point?

You use headcanon yourself, then when others use it, they are somehow in the "wrong" for doing so...

No, I don't. I speak clearly based upon things I saw happening within the game. The consensus showed me a civilian at war with the military. There were barriers involved, and he was sniping. This was all being done to protect a geth.

You want me to ignore that, but I can't.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 29 mars 2013 - 04:12 .

[Auld Wulf]

o Ventus wrote...

Read the description for the Awakened Collector. All the Leviathans did is break their control from Harbinger.

"Took the consciousness from the Reaper and put it into the Collector"? What the f**k kind of nonsense is this?

I said I was giving you speculation. All I can fall back on then is what HYR 2.0 said about how much multiplayer contradicts singleplayer in general.

[essarr71]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@essarr71

More monkey see, monkey do and implications without justification or explanation? I did expect better. At least I'm explaining myself, honestly.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you.  I know better.

Explaining yourself is just dandy, but you can't back up any of your points with ingame proof.  It works out great in your head.. and that's fine.  I don't knock anyone's head canon.  I do have issue with people making grand statements and calling people out for being stupid, when their entire fortress of intelligence is based on supposition.

So yeah..monkey see, monkey just make whatever you want up to make your point.  No one takes you seriously.

[Auld Wulf]

@essarr71

More implications. What have I said is canon that I haven't I backed up with proof?

Give me evidence and I'll fix it or apologise. (I've apologised for missteps in the past.)

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 29 mars 2013 - 04:14 .

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
You fail again to understand the difference between mind control and indoctrination.

Mind control is when someone is forced to do something out of charcater.  Indoctrination makes that action part of their character.  And I see no evidence to suggest the Reapers are mind-controlled rather than indoctrinated

Brain harder. The Reapers are mostly synthetic beings, they have no 'brain' to be indoctrinated. What they do have is programs and runtimes which can dictate control. As such, disabling those returns them to their original state (free will). There's plenty of evidence of this in the ending.

Really, play the ending again and choose Synthesis. The Catalyst talks about control over the Reapers, and in Synthesis the Reapers choose benevolent acts. This is because the runtimes forcing them to obey the Catalyst are removed from their consciousness. The old machines are no longer enslaved.

. The Reapers are organic/synthetic hybrids.  They have numerous organic traits as well as synthetic. They have been constructed to carry out the Catalyst's will.  That isn't mind control, that's being told what to do and doing it.

The Reapers also have no original, free will, state.  They are machines and as machines they were constructed with a goal in mind.  That goal is to carry out the Catalyst's will.  There is no evidence of mind-control anywhere.  

[Auld Wulf]

@Steelcan

Explain Sovereign resisting the Catalyst's control. Even slightly.

What Sovereign wants is different to the Catalyst and the rest of the Reapers, he wants a version of Synthesis rather than the continued harvest. He even tries to countermand the Catalyst by trying to seize and hack the Citadel.

How is this possible if they have no form of free will?

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 29 mars 2013 - 04:16 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

o Ventus wrote...

Read the description for the Awakened Collector. All the Leviathans did is break their control from Harbinger.

"Took the consciousness from the Reaper and put it into the Collector"? What the f**k kind of nonsense is this?

If that's a response to me, it's just re-affirming my point.

Here's another one: all krogan should have had health-regen, given what we know to be true of them in ME and ME2.

MP is all about "gameplay" ... at the expense of lore from time to time.

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Wulf, I am referring to your headcanon on the Morning War. I could bring the post up where you insulted me for using "headcanon", then going on for a whole page using it yourself. 

Everything I said about that was based upon the geth consensus. Your point?

. Have you played wi the geth VI?  He is a representation of the geth without Legion.  And he is determined to slaughter every last man woman and child Quarian.  He doesn't even acknowledge the quarians who helped the geth.

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Steelcan

Explain Sovereign resisting the Catalyst's control. Even slightly.

. What are you talking about?  Sovereign doesn't resist the Catalyst.

[Auld Wulf]

@Steelcan

I fail to see what that has to do with my point. The VI and Legion aren't being controlled. Sovereign is, yet Sovereign displays acts of free will.

[Khelish]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Khelish wrote...

My point?

You use headcanon yourself, then when others use it, they are somehow in the "wrong" for doing so...

No, I don't. I speak clearly based upon things I saw happening within the game. The consensus showed me a civilian at wara with the military. There were barriers involved, and he was sniping. This was all being done to protect a geth.

You want me to ignore that, but I can't.

I'm responding one more time, so that this thread does not go off topic.

The consensus showed vids out of context. It is absolutely based on your personal headcanon and interpretation.

[Auld Wulf]

@Steelcan

Then why doesn't Sovereign simply take part in the harvest? Like a good, obedient Reaper?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Speaking of Collectors, MP introduced "possessed" Praetorians, Scions, Abominations, even 'Swarms.

Swarms do not paralyze anymore, either.

I think we can all agree MP is not an accurate reflection of the story.

[Auld Wulf]

@Khelish

The videos show a civilian fighting military forces to save a geth. The context is contained within. What you want to deny is irrelevant, the evidence is there to be found within the consensus. Also the military abusing and imprisoning a civilian for defending a geth.

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Steelcan

Then why doesn't Sovereign simply take part in the harvest? Like a good, obedient Reaper?

. Because he is dead?

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Steelcan

I fail to see what that has to do with my point. The VI and Legion aren't being controlled. Sovereign is, yet Sovereign displays acts of free will.

. Because he is programmed to act that way.  I can program a machine to say anything.

[Auld Wulf]

@Steelcan

I don't understand your point. Sovereign was created to obey the Catalyst like all other Reapers, yet it's shown that the Reapers can have a tiny bit of wiggle room to put into motion their own plans if they try to resist the Catalyst. This implies that there is a mind capable of free will operating underneath.

[Khelish]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Speaking of Collectors, MP introduced "possessed" Praetorians, Scions, Abominations, even 'Swarms.

Swarms do not paralyze anymore, either.

I think we can all agree MP is not an accurate reflection of the story.

Pumpkin objectives.

Yes, MP has very loose ties with canon.

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Khelish

The videos show a civilian fighting military forces to save a geth. The context is contained within. What you want to deny is irrelevant, the evidence is there to be found within the consensus. Also the military abusing and imprisoning a civilian for defending a geth.

. The geth left out the part where they slaughtered every man woman and child they could get their hands on.

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Steelcan

I don't understand your point. Sovereign was created to obey the Catalyst like all other Reapers, yet it's shown that the Reapers can have a tiny bit of wiggle room to put into motion their own plans if they try to resist the Catalyst. This implies that there is a mind capable of free will operating underneath.

. When does he resist the Catalyst?

[essarr71]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Steelcan

I don't understand your point. Sovereign was created to obey the Catalyst like all other Reapers, yet it's shown that the Reapers can have a tiny bit of wiggle room to put into motion their own plans if they try to resist the Catalyst. This implies that there is a mind capable of free will operating underneath.

Amazing.

[Auld Wulf]

@Steelcan

Sovereign: I don't have an answer to that question without speculating.

Geth: Why would the civilians be defending the geth if they did that?

[spirosz]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Khelish wrote...

My point?

You use headcanon yourself, then when others use it, they are somehow in the "wrong" for doing so...

I saw happening within the game. 

That's it right there, you saw and percieve in a different way, but when one see's the same thing and expresses it a different way, they're "wrong". 

[Auld Wulf]

@essarr71

You may think you're being clever, but all I'm doing is pointing out objective contradictions.

ME3 - The Catalyst: The Reapers are created under his control.
ME1 - Sovereign: A Reaper who doesn't obey the cycle.