52 réponses à ce sujet

[Cmpunker13]

Could all those issues with the infiltrator be caused by consoles controls? With the mouse (*) is easy to capitalize each Mantis headshot, and rank 2 Incinerate is good enough until the Widow is acquired. Also you can use companion powers to integrate your arsenal.
To be honest, I had more trouble starting a new game with the engineer and the adept. Still, it's true that a new game with the infiltrator can be hard.

Infiltrator is king in NG+, however.

(*) it's even possibile to play with a claymore without the ammo upgrade.

Modifié par Cmpunker13, 27 mars 2013 - 07:00 .

[Abraham_uk]

Infiltrator is the best overall class.
Simply put, there isn't a single game where the infiltrator is weak.

Vanguard get's second place.

My favorite in all three games is still the adept. I love biotics, and I love being a biotic specialist.
In ME 1, the adept was very powerful.
In ME 2, the adept was greatly weakened.
In ME 3, despite being one of the weaker classes, the adept was still hugely overpowered.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 27 mars 2013 - 07:47 .

[BeauRoger]

capn233 wrote...

BeauRoger wrote...

Can you refer me to the post where you discuss the infiltrator in me2 please?

Infiltrator is the Worst class

Read at your own peril.

Also the title of worst may or may not be appropriate.  The point was that it really wasn't as strong as people tended to make it out as (eg the best class for Insanity).  A large part of this isn't exactly the design of the character, but the weapons you are forced to use.

Personally I think he is the character that needs a bonus the most in ME2.  Or you can try to rely more heavily on Incinerate (which is ok at Rank 1 fortunately, but much better at 4).  Cloak spam does not work nearly as well in that game as in ME3 due to different mechanis and the limitations of the early weapons.

Once you either get a bonus weapon or switch the Mantis for the Widow, it is fine.  That is 2/3 of the way through the game though.  Some argue the Locust is the answer, but really the trademark is SR's and the Predator / Shuriken combo isn't actually too bad if you utilize CC powers well.

'

thanks! Very interesting thread. I agree with you on the infiltrator in ME2. Its a decent class, but it is too specialized on damage with very few other strenghts. I have found that doing "enough" damage as other classes is far easier than for the infiltrator to take on any other role decently. I feel that i lose much control over the battlefield since infiltrators cant tank well or crowd control well.. they are inflexible. Most other classes have at least 2 of those 3 boxes checked to a satisfying level. With infiltrator in me2 i expose my squadmates to much more punishment and my downtime is much longer with sniper reloading and ammo changing, and even with time dialtion, i feel like the other classes consistantly provide better control over the battlefield (with tanking and cc) AS WELL as doing more than enough damage.

Whats your opinion on engineers im ME2 and ME3? I found them to be among the safest classes to play, and with incinerate doing good damage and bending around corners, you outlast anything that can attack you, and can stop approach fairly easy. I always take the warp ammo bonus power which punches through basically everything since i dont need more cc than the engineer already has. I make sure that my companions get that power at 50% effectiveness so that i can focus squaddies on other powers rather than ammo ones, at least for early game. Im not sure if this is the ideal solution if one crunch all stat/power numbers, but in practicality it has worked well for me.

Modifié par BeauRoger, 27 mars 2013 - 08:15 .

[Cmpunker13]

BeauRoger wrote...
 I feel that i lose much control over the battlefield since infiltrators cant tank well or crowd control well.. they are inflexible. Most other classes have at least 2 of those 3 boxes checked to a satisfying level. With infiltrator in me2 i expose my squadmates to much more punishment and my downtime is much longer with sniper reloading and ammo changing, and even with time dialtion, i feel like the other classes consistantly provide better control over the battlefield (with tanking and cc) AS WELL as doing more than enough damage.

I guess it's up to tastes, but with a widow you don't need cc, as one shot is one kill, so you can perfectly run an infiltrator without companions (like this one). If you want to cc a Scimitar/Viper infiltrator with cryo ammo is better than an engineer, imo [even this shuriken/carnifex infiltrator looks good ].

Modifié par Cmpunker13, 27 mars 2013 - 09:04 .

[capn233]

You don't get the Widow until Disabled Collector Cruiser, which is around 2/3 of the way through the game (dependent on order and total missions you plan to complete)... alternatively you could get the Viper the next mission after Horizon if you do The Assassin right away. But Soldier can get either of those weapons at the same point despite having a better arsenal to begin with, and he has much better synergy with the Viper using Adrenaline Rush and Inferno ammo.

For decent organic CC you need Incineration Blast. If you have any rank below 4 you are probably only hitting one target. Good against armor, but not great per cooldown as far as CC goes. That is remedied with 1 pt Neural Shock with its 3s base cooldown, which is half of Incinerates. If you go that route, you can run around hitting targets with NS then getting in close and using the Shuriken (it has good DPS up close where recoil / accuracy are not a big deal). If you have Kasumi you can conceivably go Locust early and use that as your go to weapon until DCC. It won't be quite as good up close or against shields and barriers, but it is better at range and against armor. I don't feel like those advantages make too much sense on an Infiltrator since you have Predator or Carnifex, the Mantis, and Incinerate for range and armor already.

This was my Shocker Infiltrator going through Arrival.  There is a decent amount of NS and Shuriken even though this is the last mission with the character.

Modifié par capn233, 27 mars 2013 - 09:17 .

[BeauRoger]

Cmpunker13 wrote...

BeauRoger wrote...
 I feel that i lose much control over the battlefield since infiltrators cant tank well or crowd control well.. they are inflexible. Most other classes have at least 2 of those 3 boxes checked to a satisfying level. With infiltrator in me2 i expose my squadmates to much more punishment and my downtime is much longer with sniper reloading and ammo changing, and even with time dialtion, i feel like the other classes consistantly provide better control over the battlefield (with tanking and cc) AS WELL as doing more than enough damage.

I guess it's up to tastes, but with a widow you don't need cc, as one shot is one kill, so you can perfectly run an infiltrator without companions (like this one). If you want to cc a Scimitar/Viper infiltrator with cryo ammo is better than an engineer, imo [even this shuriken/carnifex infiltrator looks good ].

Personally i dislike cryo ammo since it only becomes effective ones all the enemy protection is down, and by that time they are so easy to pick off anyway that i feel it becomes inefficient compared to other ammo options, especially when it comes to harder difficulties. I much prefer warp for the reason that it is effective against everything except tech shields. Im not saying that infiltrator is bad, much less unplayable, so a vid somebody soloing on insanity doesnt at all suprise me, i think thats probably possible with every class.

[Cmpunker13]

capn233 wrote...

This was my Shocker Infiltrator going through Arrival.  There is a decent amount of NS and Shuriken even though this is the last mission with the character.

Nice vids! Didn't know that Neural Shock could stagger protected enemies... guess I've always underestimated that power.

Object Rho was very well executed, I could have used it to prove the infiltrator overpowerness

Modifié par Cmpunker13, 27 mars 2013 - 09:43 .

[BeauRoger]

capn233 wrote...

You don't get the Widow until Disabled
Collector Cruiser, which is around 2/3 of the way through the game
(dependent on order and total missions you plan to complete)...
alternatively you could get the Viper the next mission after Horizon if
you do The Assassin right away. But Soldier can get either of those
weapons at the same point despite having a better arsenal to begin with,
and he has much better synergy with the Viper using Adrenaline Rush and
Inferno ammo.

For decent organic CC you need Incineration Blast.
If you have any rank below 4 you are probably only hitting one target.
Good against armor, but not great per cooldown as far as CC goes.
That is remedied with 1 pt Neural Shock with its 3s base cooldown, which
is half of Incinerates. If you go that route, you can run around
hitting targets with NS then getting in close and using the Shuriken (it
has good DPS up close where recoil / accuracy are not a big deal). If
you have Kasumi you can conceivably go Locust early and use that as your
go to weapon until DCC. It won't be quite as good up close or against
shields and barriers, but it is better at range and against armor. I
don't feel like those advantages make too much sense on an Infiltrator
since you have Predator or Carnifex, the Mantis, and Incinerate for
range and armor already.

This was my Shocker Infiltrator going through Arrival.  There is a decent amount of NS and Shuriken even though this is the last mission with the character.

you ignored my post:(

Modifié par BeauRoger, 27 mars 2013 - 09:52 .

[capn233]

BeauRoger wrote...
you ignored my post:(

I wouldn't say that I ignored it.

I did discuss all of the classes in each game in my first reply in this thread though.  I am not sure what exactly to add.  Engineer is decent in ME2 and ME3.  Drone took a huge step back for ME3, but the combo system helps somewhat.  Then there is Tech Vulnerability debuff.

The issue is that in ME3 the Infiltrator can do basically everything you would want to do with the Engineer except spam full CC Overload to detonate multiple combos.  But he has grenades if he wants to attempt that and much higher weapon damage.  And you get to somewhat bypass the weight mechanic.

In ME2 you had very good CC and a power to strip every defense.  Also decent powers against organic and synthetic health alike.  More fun than the Adept in that game IMO.

Modifié par capn233, 27 mars 2013 - 10:23 .

[capn233]

Cmpunker13 wrote...

Nice vids! Didn't know that Neural Shock could stagger protected enemies... guess I've always underestimated that power.

Object Rho was very well executed, I could have used it to prove the infiltrator overpowerness

You can stagger protecteds with nearly any power in ME2... Pull is another one to use if you have it hotkeyed (squaddies won't use it automatically, so you have to order it manually).

As for Object Rho, the hands down easiest character I played there was Assault Sentinel.  You can practically just take cover in one spot and let them run up to you and break Tech Armor... and kill themselves.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

ME1:
Infiltrator - Snag Hacking as a BP and you have all the core tech powers, armor, immunity and range. True the pistol is the only other weapon but with marginal work, it can compare well to an AR.
Soldier - All but impossible to kill with thickest armor, most choice in guns (though I tended to stick to AR/Sniper) and HP.
Vanguard/Adept - About the same to me, though a Bastion Adapt is totally unmatched in a one-on-few fight, the vanguard can hold out against a larger number of foes.
Engineer/Sentinel - Still have not played these classes in ME1 *shrugs*

ME2
Infiltrator - While not quite the fully self-sufficient class as last time, it can own most fights in short order, as long as there are enough clips.
Solider - Would be top, but I just like the infiltrator more.
Adept - Irritating to need to pull most of the defenses off at higher difficulty, it's still satisfying to make boom in the faces of the targets.
Engineer - A key for (nearly) any lock. Get Reave and there is not defense the engineer can't strip. Killing the target, on the other hand...
Vanguard/Sentinel - Not completed ME2 with these two classes

ME3
Engineer - OMG. My engineer is rolling face on insanity, cryo burst makes all the difference in the world when you see a Brute die in under 10 seconds. Drone and Turret are nice, but (Overload/)Cryo/Incinerate will wipe out things in seconds with the right power choices to balance off of. (Note that fighting /alone/ is a drastically different ballgame. *points to the first phase of the last fight in Omega DLC*)
Infiltrator - Bias showing here most likely, but as my primary character playthrough, I still like and had only slight difficulty with. I will admit to relying a lot more on squadmates then from previous games though.
Soldier - Still going strong, but not too much so.
Adapt/Vanguard/Sentinel - Not played yet, though the Adept is waiting once the Engineer run is done and plans are in place for a ME1-ME3 vanguard run after that.

[BeauRoger]

capn233 wrote...

BeauRoger wrote...
you ignored my post:(

I wouldn't say that I ignored it.

I did discuss all of the classes in each game in my first reply in this thread though.  I am not sure what exactly to add.  Engineer is decent in ME2 and ME3.  Drone took a huge step back for ME3, but the combo system helps somewhat.  Then there is Tech Vulnerability debuff.

The issue is that in ME3 the Infiltrator can do basically everything you would want to do with the Engineer except spam full CC Overload to detonate multiple combos.  But he has grenades if he wants to attempt that and much higher weapon damage.  And you get to somewhat bypass the weight mechanic.

In ME2 you had very good CC and a power to strip every defense.  Also decent powers against organic and synthetic health alike.  More fun than the Adept in that game IMO.

Can you really get the cooldown low enough to match the spamming of powers that engineers are capable of in ME3, or did you imagine going single weapon only?

[capn233]

BeauRoger wrote...

Can you really get the cooldown low enough to match the spamming of powers that engineers are capable of in ME3, or did you imagine going single weapon only?

If you are asking about infiltrator, you can use a power essentially every 4-4.5s regardless of weapon weight by using TacCloak before you cast anything.  You also have higher weight capacity bonus available.  And Tac Cloak increases power damage to boot.

If you go light enough on weapons on an Engineer to seriously undercut the cooldowns you sacrifice a fair amount of weapon damage, unless you have weapon DLC and can run the Punisher or something like that.

[BeauRoger]

capn233 wrote...

BeauRoger wrote...

Can you really get the cooldown low enough to match the spamming of powers that engineers are capable of in ME3, or did you imagine going single weapon only?

If you are asking about infiltrator, you can use a power essentially every 4-4.5s regardless of weapon weight by using TacCloak before you cast anything.  You also have higher weight capacity bonus available.  And Tac Cloak increases power damage to boot.

If you go light enough on weapons on an Engineer to seriously undercut the cooldowns you sacrifice a fair amount of weapon damage, unless you have weapon DLC and can run the Punisher or something like that.

I havent played any of the ME3 dlcs yet, ive been waiting for all of them to release before replaying. Now Im waiting until summer where i have  time off to do a full trilogy replay with all dlc added:) Its going to be glorious. Until now ive only been equipping the scorpion, and to fantastic effect. It works marvelously with the engineer since the drones turn enemies into sitting ducks. I rarely have to stray from cover anyway since most powers are either seeking or automatic hit. The scorpion works great for this kind of gameplay.

[RedCaesar97]

Cmpunker13 wrote...

Could all those issues with the infiltrator be caused by consoles controls? ...

As a console player (and only a part-time PC player), I would have to say no. All issues with the Infiltrator stem from its design choices. In ME1 the Infiltrator simply had the best of both combat and tech (except Adrenaline Burst which was not really missed), and in ME3 Tactical Cloak is simply ridiculous.

The biggest issue with ME2 and ME3 on consoles is the Aim Assist, often--and very incorrectly--called Auto-Aim. Since console controllers lack the finer motor control provided by mouse, many shooters provide aim assist which allows your gun to snap closer or on to the target when aiming, such as when zooming in with a sniper rifle.

Some games like the Halo franchise have a very subtle aim assist. Mass Effect's aim assist is not always subtle. You could have your sniper rifle cross-hairs targeted on a Ravager, only to zoom in and the aim assist change your target to a Swarmer. ME3 does have a much better aim assist than ME2 though so I will give it credit.

Consoles also have fewer buttons so control options are also more limited. Only three of Shepard's powers can be mapped, and each squadmate is limited to either the D-Pad for the PC's Q+E equivalent (squad commands) or 1 mapped power, not both.

And as much as you may hate the "do-everything" button, it is even worse on consoles. Trust me.

[RedCaesar97]

known_hero wrote...

@RedCaesar97

You make a good point: the game literally forces you to select a bp after one completion. However, this is a discussion of the strongest class; not the strongest build.

What's the point of praising the Sentinel's ability to use biotic and tech powers when you can throw energy drain on a Adept or give Flare/Reave/Statis to an Inflitrator/Engineer? Engineer lacking survivability in ME1 becomes a moot point when you can give him Barrier.

The uniqueness and faults of each class get erased when you add BPs into the discussion.

You are correct: This is a discussion of the strongest class, not the strongest build.

However, even ignoring bonus powers, the Infiltrator tends to kick the Engineer's butt in both ME1 and ME3, as well as the Soldier's. In ME1, it simply has the best of both combat and tech powers, and ME3 Tactical Cloak is just ill-designed.

I think the "praise" for the Sentinel is because it is mostly half biotic/half tech. Giving Energy Drain to an Adept makes it an Adept with only a single tech power, not a Sentinel. Granted, Energy Drain will certainly cover its one weakness and make it look like a Sentinel in ME2 and ME3. And giving a biotic power to an Infiltrator will certainly not make it a better biotic than the Adept or Vanguard or Sentinel since it would have only one biotic power. It can do good things with that power but will never be mistaken for a biotic powerhouse.

As for the Engineer in ME1 with Barrier: I ran that in ME1 (3-playthrough build) and just find that an Operative Infiltrator with AI Hacking is better. Both need really good Medical Exoskeletons to keep their protection power up at all times, but Immunity+Medium Armor is simply better than Barrier+Light Armor. Plus the Infiltrator has two weapons.

[spockjedi]

A Sentinel with an Assault Rifle.
In ME1, choose the Assault Rifle as you bonus talent.
In ME2, pick the Assault Rifle while aboard the Collector ship and mod it with AP or Warp Ammo.
In ME3, equip a level V Particle Rifle or Harrier as your main or sole weapon and replace the tech armor with a Rank 6 "Power Recharge" Defense Matrix.
The result is always the same: an extremely durable combatant that can restore its shields whenever needed, equipped with heavy multi-ranged firepower and a ton of rapid-spamming powers that can hurt any kind of enemy or defense.
Who needs more?

[Valiant Corvus]

I dunno about anyone else, but ME1 Soldier was broken as hell. I can't remember the names of everything at this point, when when you bought those medical amps from the clinic and slot your armor with them, max out AR and immunity, get some heat sinks for the rifle; Congrats, you can now beat the entire game by running at things and holding the trigger.

[JaegerBane]

Valiant Corvus wrote...

I dunno about anyone else, but ME1 Soldier was broken as hell. I can't remember the names of everything at this point, when when you bought those medical amps from the clinic and slot your armor with them, max out AR and immunity, get some heat sinks for the rifle; Congrats, you can now beat the entire game by running at things and holding the trigger.

+1.

I went shock trooper soldier once in ME1, he was like Bruce Willis out of Unbreakable. I actually melee'd a thresher maw to deal at one point.

[capn233]

Soldier is near unkillable leveled up with Colossus armor, but he is pretty weak if you start a new game with him (level 1) on Insanity. Actually the most frustrating of any class early to me.

[Riceicles]

 I would say that it really falls down to personal preference in me2, if your good with biotics than I would say adept is the best, for close range the vanguard is great but needs to be used carefully and the engineer I would say would be the best tech. If you put these 3 together, I don't think any outweigh the other (with the possible exception of overweighing the engineer). When I was and adept I felt like nothing but my powers were necessary (as said in description, best at taking out enemies without firing a bullet) the combos with all my powers were ridiculously op and husks, have a nice fly. As a vanguard I found it a bit more, thought required because using biotic charge could mean life or death when heavy mele or nova weren't invented. As an engineer I found it pretty straight forward.

I would put it as:
1.Adept/Vanguard
2.Engineer
3.infiltrator

In me3 this became a lot more interesting. 
  would say that infiltrator became ridiculously op compared to engineer. Adept became a lot harder to use due to Cerberus always having shields but, was so helpful with reapers and shields. Vanguard became amazingly more powerful and versatile than in me2, with the addition of nova and heavy mele, biotic charge became a lot easier to use because of the charge-nova-nova(if path chosen)-heavy mele combo.

i would put me3 as:
1.Vanguard
2.adept
3.infiltrator

Modifié par Riceicles, 30 mars 2013 - 02:41 .

[agathokakological]

If we're talking about effectiveness, Infiltrator. If we're talking about fun as hell, Vanguard.

Effectiveness:
1. Infiltrator
2. Adept
3. Vanguard
4. Sentinel
5. Engineer
6. Soldier

Fun:
1. Vanguard
2. Adept
3. Infiltrator
4. Sentinel
5. Soldier
6. Engineer

[RA RA XD]

Infiltrator has always been my favourite class. Probably more to do with the nostalgia of it being my first playthrough then anything else.

[JaqueNorris]

Always the Vangod, except for ME 1, because the VG was in the first Part not so Badass, like in the other 2 Games

[Ferretinabun]

+1 for the Soldier.

Indestructible in ME1. And AR in ME2 made sniping fun as well as damned efficient. Plus an ammo for every occasion. Soldiers rule.

Okay it got a little left behind in ME3, but I think that's understandable considering how overpowered it was beforehand.