223 réponses à ce sujet

[TheProtheans]

Control is better with kinect

[TheProtheans]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Destroy is the Disney ending, and can people please stop spamming this thread. I'm actually serious.

@David, just because I don't trust them, doesn't mean they don't deserve a chance to live.

Which Disney ending has genocide of an entire race?

Mulan has her wipe out almost the entire Hun army in an avalanche; that's pretty similar.

I don't recall killing soldiers in a war a genocide. 

Well all Geth and Reapers are combative so I guess it is not genocide either.
Even EDI is part of the war.

****es please, destroy is not genocide at all.

[Zkyire]

The only good Reaper is a dead Reaper.

[3DandBeyond]

aryon69 wrote...

The one and only time I did control it gave me a bad vibe. Even the most paragon Shep has a pretty good sized body count and now all of that just became a AI that can mind control. Make sure your tribute is worthy or the cult of shepherd will have a whole new meaning.

Meet the new boss.  Same as the old boss.

In Control what was Shepard no longer exists and the idea that the kid is being honest about Shepard controlling things is a bridge too far for me.  The ominous vibe of it all as well as the "I'm not myself and not alone" voice of Shepard is enough to indicate things will not go well in reaperville.

Of course, I've stated before that it's something I don't think a rational Shepard would do because it forces people to live with people sucking monsters as a part of their reality.  There are many examples of people NOT wanting to do this very thing when it only involves humans and/or other known animals.  A shark eats a person and it's killed-you can debate the right or wrong of its death-it only did what it was meant to do-but it's all about point of view.  From the view of the victim (there's a whole galaxy in this case), the murderer must pay.  If he's eaten people or just chopped them up, it sets up an even more horrified view of the murderer.  The violation of the body adds insult to injury-it's just how people think and feel.  The liquefying of organics makes their deaths even more horrific and their killers even more irredeemable.  The thought is that a lion that tastes human blood will always want it.  Right or wrong-it's a gut level reaction and it forms strong feelings.  If the lion is the size of skyscrapers, it then is the stuff of nightmares.  Rogue elephants are put down.

It's also the case that the Shepard I played would never want that kind of power-she just argued with TIM regarding the wrongheadedness of just such a thing.  No one should have that kind of power.  If I want to go all symbolic here I can think that there's a reasonable corollary between control in ME3 and nukes.  Should one person have at his control the ability to annihilate the Earth?  I don't think so, but the only thing in defense of it at all is that the person with a finger on the nuke button does have some "rules" to go by and can't just set them off for fun and relaxation.  Control Shepard is on her own or more accurately shares authority with some unknown entities that exist along side her in the Catalyst House.

I see Control as fundamentally a way to destroy (for lack of a better term to encompass all organics in the galaxy) the "human" spirit. 

First off, the regular visits by repairman Bob the Reaper-I don't want to see him, he destroyed most of my world, killed my neighbors, ate my family.  I die a little each time I see him and even if I don't see him, I know he exists and my children do not.  My children have become a part of a new reaper-its core or its shell, they were liquefied and their minds taken from their bodies.  In my realm of understanding they were killed and eaten by reapers.  When I'm out cleaning up debris and dead bodies, I sometimes get "help" from husks.  They smell and look terrible and don't talk much and one of them looks a lot like my ex-husband.  Is he in pain?  Does he think or feel?  Is he alive or dead or in some sort of limbo and will not ever be at peace?  I'd never want this for myself and it hurts more than you know for me to see him like this.  I wonder if my parents are husks too?  And each day I cry myself to sleep, constantly reminded of the horrors that came before because every day when I get up I am confronted by the fact that SOB Shepard did not destroy those reapers and let us live our lives without them.  It's killing me. 

Most of my neighbors hide a lot whenever the reapers come by and a few of them have taken to shooting husks on sight, but they back off when any reaper warnings go off.  We aren't really living now because we're afraid all the time.  We don't know why the reapers are acting this way, apparently trying to help us but then flying by when any trouble starts up-we're afraid they'll start attacking.  I used to be a scientist, creating and researching new tech.  I have no interest in that now since I've seen the horror that tech could be.  And I fear that I'll make something that the reapers don't like.  Then what will happen?  As it is, the reapers seem to hold all the tech cards-rumor has it they're fixing the relays and everything else they helped to destroy, but we don't know why?  Are they preparing for more reapers to come here or just making it easier for themselves to travel between systems? 

Some of us are forming into gangs.  One big gang, headed by someone, a Prothean of all things, that was with Shepard in the last push to destroy the reapers is bent on ending them.  I can't see any good coming of that and know they'll just make the reapers mad if they're unable to find a way to destroy them. 

Another rumor has it that some Cerberus types still exist and think they can seize power and take control of the reapers-seems I heard tell their previous leader, TIM, wanted to do that but the reapers had messed him up with their indoctrination.  But these Cerberus people have put out word they're looking for others to help build another crucible.

The Salarians and Krogan are fighting.  Minor skirmishes so far and an old Salarian friend of mine says reports he's gotten say the reapers showed up during one such fight and caused everyone to scatter.  The reaper seemed intent on stopping the fighting but did kill a number of people in trying to do so.  As I understand it, one of Shepard's old friends had also shown up and tried to stop the conflict but then the reapers came along, started shooting, and killed the guy.  Wrex, I think his name was.

[MegaSovereign]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Of course, I've stated before that it's something I don't think a rational Shepard would do because it forces people to live with people sucking monsters as a part of their reality. There are many examples of people NOT wanting to do this very thing when it only involves humans and/or other known animals. A shark eats a person and it's killed-you can debate the right or wrong of its death-it only did what it was meant to do-but it's all about point of view. From the view of the victim (there's a whole galaxy in this case), the murderer must pay. If he's eaten people or just chopped them up, it sets up an even more horrified view of the murderer. The violation of the body adds insult to injury-it's just how people think and feel. The liquefying of organics makes their deaths even more horrific and their killers even more irredeemable. The thought is that a lion that tastes human blood will always want it. Right or wrong-it's a gut level reaction and it forms strong feelings. If the lion is the size of skyscrapers, it then is the stuff of nightmares. Rogue elephants are put down.

The Keepers don't seem to get in the way all that much.

I take the line "Shepard's connection to organic life will be lost" very literally. And after reconstruction I see no reason why the Reapers would still be planted on each world.

[Ieldra]

@3DAndBeyond:
Your scenario is not more valid than any other. If you think *your* Shepard would act like this if you chose Control then of course you won't, but don't tell others how their post-Control scenario degenerates into an oppressive regime. It. Does. Not. Happen. Period. Not in my games anyway.
It's this insistence that "the outcome of a choice I don't agree with is bad" that makes me mad. If you can't imagine a better post-Control scenario that says more about you than about any intrinsic evil Control may or may not have.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 mars 2013 - 02:00 .

[Jadebaby]

Calm down Ieldra2, I think 3D is just a realist. You have to remember to leave realism out of this debate, stick it with logic and thematic consistency and then we can start debating why control is the best! : )

[Applepie_Svk]

Jadebaby wrote...

Calm down Ieldra2, I think 3D is just a realist. You have to remember to leave realism out of this debate, stick it with logic and thematic consistency and then we can start debating why control is the best! : )

I see what you did there 

[Obadiah]

Shep can't solve every problem, but in Control he can stop the war and save all of his allies. Someone else will just have to deal with the Shep AI if it gets out of hand or the Creator/Created war if it happens.

Jadebaby wrote...

Calm down Ieldra2, I think 3D is just a realist. You have to remember to leave realism out of this debate, stick it with logic and thematic consistency and then we can start debating why control is the best! : )

3D's argument is not realist, just stubbornly pessimistic

[Jadebaby]

I'd call it realist. No human is perfect, Shepard is no exception. Thank goodness we don't have to worry about such drab in our wonderful universe!

[redbaron76]

There is no logic in control. Control and Synthesis are wrong. They take away the choice from the rest of galaxy. Rest of Galaxy wants reaper destroyed and gone. So control and synthesys are just plain wrong. Destroy is the only true ending. It is to bad that edi and geth die. The rest of the galaxy survives. it is always best to sacrifice few to save many. And control and Synthesis do not guarantee that cycles will not start again down the road.

[Chala]

Jadebaby wrote...

I'd call it realist. No human is perfect, Shepard is no exception. Thank goodness we don't have to worry about such drab in our wonderful universe!

... For now.

[Applepie_Svk]

AI in destroy are just bargain chip... just sayin

[DecCylonus]

Jadebaby wrote...

Of course I can, why can't he be stupid and right at the same time? You can still be right about a problem and deal with it in a really stupid way. That's what he's doing with his "choices." In which case only 1 out of the 3 do anything for it.

This sounds very contradictory. You call the Catalyst's solution stupid, but Control is almost the same solution. Shepard becomes the Catalyst and has the power of the Reapers at his or her disposal. Shepard effectively becomes galactic overlord. It doesn't matter how benevolent Shepard is, because he / she always has the Reapers. Everyone has to wonder what will happen if they resist Shepard's will.

For the sake of argument, let's say that restarting the harvest is completely off the table. What other options does Shepard have to help things run smoothly in the galaxy? The Reapers are giant fleet of warships that can bring overwhelming firepower to any engagement. They are also good at... building relays maybe? Creating genetic abominations? Mind controlling organics to get their way? There is an old saying that "If your only tool is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail." The Reapers are a hammer. This is not to say that everyone's Shepard would use them to beat everyone else down. It is to say that if one or more races decide to give Shepard the finger and go their own way, he / she only has one tool. Shepard either has to use the Reapers or sit on the sidelines and watch things unfold.

Having such a weapon will also erode trust in Shepard. Shepard might be a fantastic negotiator with a wise point of view, but is also packing a major threat. Nobody will feel completely free to say no to Shepard. That will breed resentment in time. Sooner or later people will begin building weapons to try to counter the Reapers, at which point Shepard has to decide whether to let them do that or not. If Shepard does let them, eventually somebody will try to use those weapons.

Bottom line, Control doesn't really solve the galactic problems. It just changes the nature of them. It's as flawed a solution as any of the other choices.

[Jadebaby]

redbaron76 wrote...

There is no logic in control. Control and Synthesis are wrong. They take away the choice from the rest of galaxy. Rest of Galaxy wants reaper destroyed and gone. So control and synthesys are just plain wrong. Destroy is the only true ending. It is to bad that edi and geth die. The rest of the galaxy survives. it is always best to sacrifice few to save many. And control and Synthesis do not guarantee that cycles will not start again down the road.

That's because the rest of the galaxy don't know what Shepard knows, if the Starkid broadcasted the ending platform scene to the entire galaxy, you bet there'd be folks lining up cheering, "choose control Shepard!"

Btw, just at your last comment, it's actually destroy and control that doesn't guarantee that cycles wont start again. Synthesis is the *solution* to the *problem*, apparently....

But at least you're learning how to debate like a true BSN'er!

[frostajulie]

Astartes Marine wrote...

The only reason I might ever consider Control is because I can become, in essence, the Immortal God Emperor of the galaxy.

This is why I am slowly coming over to the darkside and deciding this is the ending I will choose.  God shepard can monitor Krogan expansion as well as the Geths AI even though the music is creepy as hell, its the best option in the bag of ****ty options if I play a Shepard that is so out of character that they would pick an ending other then refuse.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Well done Jade

[Jadebaby]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

I'd call it realist. No human is perfect, Shepard is no exception. Thank goodness we don't have to worry about such drab in our wonderful universe!

... For now.

You forgot something....

[Kel Riever]

Well, in Destroy, the Geth and EDI live. So does Shepard.

So I really don't see the downside to Destroy.

I know there's a crowd of people out there who say that according to Glowjob, the Geth and EDI die, but those same people really weren't listening to Glowjob nor do they understand what code is (or breathing for that matter).

Those people are unimaginative.

[jtav]

EDI's name is on the wall. Rannoch is a barren wasteland if you side with the geth. Synthetics die in destroy and the quantum bluebox that makes them "them" is impossible to copy.

[Jadebaby]

So where was EDI in the memorial scene then?

or the geth slides that are present in control and synthesis?

Nope, unless you perform the MEHEM destroy ending, geth and EDI are snuba-dub-duba-dead.

[MegaSovereign]

TIM could have found a way to resurrect synthetics.

Rest in peace you glorious, misguided bastard.

[Steelcan]

The geth died over Rannoch..... Don't know what you are talking about them dying in the ending.

[Steelcan]

jtav wrote...

EDI's name is on the wall. Rannoch is a barren wasteland if you side with the geth. Synthetics die in destroy and the quantum bluebox that makes them "them" is impossible to copy.

. Retcons....  EDI was completely offline after Palaven, but she's still the same personality.

[Steelcan]

MegaSovereign wrote...

TIM could have found a way to resurrect synthetics.

Rest in peace you glorious, misguided bastard.

. *Cough* Lazarus 2.0. *cough*