223 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Seival everything you do is a little creepy

[SaidRael]

Yestare7 wrote...


....because of blue.

And blue = Asari. 

[Applepie_Svk]

Steelcan wrote...

Seival everything you do is a little creepy

trolling for 6 months on BSN and walking freely...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Thread of the Month!

[Kel Riever]

Seival wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Yes, that's right.

Through the last year a numerous amount of times I have thought "well if I wanted *that* ending I could pick control" and every time I thought these things I shook it off immediately as utter rubbish. But since BioWare have gracefully stepped down leaving the glorious product that is Mass Effect 3 before us, and 100% completed no less. I have started to think of control again...

Never mind the fact you're just going from Internet Explorer to Mozilla. The ability to save the most amount of lives without compromising anyone's personal being is very, very tempting. Also disregard the fact that you're side-stepping the issue the same as in Destroy, that is you don't actually solve the "problem" that is laid upon you at the 11th hour. But again, you can still watch from afar as EDI and Joker.. Well, eventually end up killing one another because you didn't solve the problem at all.. But like every other ending, head canon comes into play and one can just imagine this scene play out when GodReaperShep strolls on in and tells them to stop their squabbling or he'll start the cycles again. Just like what would happen if the Geth start misbehaving or something of the like....

The only thing that kind of ruined it for me tbh was the Extended Cut, the creepiness of that epilogue can just not be head-canoned away. Thank goodness I didn't get it on WiiU! Am I right?

Control ending is not creepy at all.

Calling Control ending creepy is like calling my avatar and signature creepy... And before you reply to that, let me explain

...Being alien is not always being creepy. Alien things may be beautiful in their own specific way.

Chicken....I think your alien avatar makes me want to cook it up, slice it thin, add some delicious sauce, and eat it.  It is beautiful in the way that delicious food it.  I think I would drink white wine while I ate it, even though I generally prefer heavy reds.  

[shodiswe]

Reorte wrote...

The scary thing about Control are the people who flat out state that it WILL turn out OK with their Shepard, that they have no doubt about the Shepalyst being enough Shepard and that he's completely benign and uncorruptable. All of those are wildly implausible.

I'm not sure why AI shepard woudl have to be more corruptible than the original Shepard.

The original Shepard can choose, and the Orignal has a lot of power and possibilites.

Organic Shepard is already one of the most powerful people in the galaxy, if people corrupts then it should be apparent already. Maybe it is with Renegade Shepard,it depends on your viws, I guess.
TBH, I don't see the problem, there are lots of corrupted people in the galaxy and everything in between.
None of the control Shepard talks abotu creating a new state or an empire. So no policestate is mentioned.
The Renegade ones seems to think it has leadership qulities thogh sugesting he/she could become more intrusive than a Paragon Shepard.
But there is no reason for killing to start for no reason or for huge changes to ones personality.
People who become corrupted after gaining power or influence were probaly the same people before that, they just lacked to meens and opportunity. People don't tell others they are corrup and will corrupt if given the chance, but they simply lacked the opportunity to do so earlier.

EDIT:  Shepard was a Spectre and a protector of the galaxy, control is just the continuation of that job and function. It's not said that Shepard creates a new state or a new order. It's simply guarding against great threats.
I doubt the Shepard AI will go out and huntsmuglers or drugdealers unless they are trying to kill off a whole race or more.
Thoguh, personaly I think Bioware will involve the Leviathans or some other great force that will make all endings pointless in the end... That's pretty much how BW hadled the ME and ME2 endings. In the end the player choices were toned down to almost nothing, except for either a dead character or a few extra war asset points.

Modifié par shodiswe, 28 mars 2013 - 06:33 .

[Jadebaby]

ghost9191 wrote...
and on top of that which was on top of the other, if you want that just choose synthesis . every one holds hands. reapers are our friends.

I'm not going to kill my Shepard! What are you, crazy?

[HiddenInWar]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Everyone knows the only ending is Desynthrefuse.

It's canon, everyone go home.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Astartes Marine wrote...

The only reason I might ever consider Control is because I can become, in essence, the Immortal God Emperor of the galaxy.

This guy gets it.

[Ieldra]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...
The only reason I might ever consider Control is because I can become, in essence, the Immortal God Emperor of the galaxy.

This guy gets it.

What people usually don't get is that autocratic rule can actually be good, especially if the ruler doesn't belong to specific faction and doesn't need to appease factions his rule depends on, but can concentrate on guiding the galaxy to a bright future.

What people also don't get is that there is no need to be heavy-handed with your interventions if you're a hyper-advanced AI with comprehensive knowledge of the development of civilizations, and that you don't need to interfere in everything.

I get that people are uncomfortable with the theme presented by Control. I am not comfortable with it either, but to insist that the outcome must be bad is just stupid.

[ruggly]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I get that people are uncomfortable with the theme presented by Control. I am not comfortable with it either, but to insist that the outcome must be bad is just stupid.

Although some people like to headcaon/roleplay it that way.  Wouldn't it make for an exciting headcanon of a future where Shepalyst does get too involved and people start revolting? How would a paragon Shepalyst react compared to a renegade one?

[Daniel_N7]

The thing about control is... what happens to the power to "indoctrinate". The Reapers still have that power. Even under the command of a paragon Shepard-AI (for the lack of a better definition), who's to say that this entity will not use indoctrination, even with the intention of doing "good".

For example, a conflict between species arises in the galaxy. The Shepard-AI commands the Reapers to go and establish peace. And they do it, kindly, by indoctrinating the species into accepting peace.

Who's to say this Shepard-AI will object use indoctrination, even for good. Why should it have a moral stance on indoctrination, as evil?

I believe Gandalf said it best...

Don't... tempt me Frodo! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand, Frodo. I would use this ring from a desire to do good... But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.

[Obadiah]

ruggly wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I get that people are uncomfortable with the theme presented by Control. I am not comfortable with it either, but to insist that the outcome must be bad is just stupid.

Although some people like to headcaon/roleplay it that way.  Wouldn't it make for an exciting headcanon of a future where Shepalyst does get too involved and people start revolting? How would a paragon Shepalyst react compared to a renegade one?

I can almost guarantee that wil happen, but that was probably going to happen with any government. I guess the Shep AI will try to handle it the way any government tries to handle such outbursts - let the infrastructure of the law handle it, try to communicate why revolting is bad, while reassessing its involvment.

[essarr71]

And when technology advances to the point where the Reapers arent so dominant? Or will there be restrictions on advancement?

Control with little oversight = eventual removal
Control with heavy oversight = eventual domination
Control with just enough oversight to restrict advancement = rebellion

[wright1978]

shodiswe wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Personally i find control completely unappealing. Renegade version is a police state, while paragon version strikes me as just as good but in a paragon manner. Very much reminds me of the River Tam quote

"People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome"

If others like it fair enough.

Shepard doesn't have to be that meddlesome. Tbh, one could compare The Shepard AI to a superpower that's watching over it's interests. In this case preventing mass geocides and similar threats to galactic safety.
It would be similar to the united states, EU, russia or China medling in global affairs. The renegade version is probably far more intrusive than the paragon one however calling itself the obvious leader or something like that.

But policestate, I think not.

Shep as a character is meddlesome. Can't see that facet not trasnferring to his/her ai progeny. So yeah i see paragon shep constantly interferring to try and make people act like it feels they should and renegade Shep using the reapers actively as a stick to beat civilisations to do as it wants(so yeah very police stately).

[robertthebard]

Ieldra2 wrote...

What people usually don't get is that autocratic rule can actually be good, especially if the ruler doesn't belong to specific faction and doesn't need to appease factions his rule depends on, but can concentrate on guiding the galaxy to a bright future.

What people also don't get is that there is no need to be heavy-handed with your interventions if you're a hyper-advanced AI with comprehensive knowledge of the development of civilizations, and that you don't need to interfere in everything.

I get that people are uncomfortable with the theme presented by Control. I am not comfortable with it either, but to insist that the outcome must be bad is just stupid.

The problem with your scenario regarding autocratic rule is, in general, they got into power somehow, and depending on how, there will be factions to appease if they want to stay in power.  Not really an issue for ShepAI, but even in a Democracy, you can see the favoritism thrown around by whatever party is in control at the time.

...and yet, the Catalyst was certainly heavy handed in it's approach to solving the problem it was created to solve.  We don't know how long it took it to come to it's ultimate solution.  We can't know whether or not, over the vastness that is eternity, that ShepAI won't come to the same conclusion.

But I think our disconnect comes here:  I say "it can end badly", and you read "it must end badly".  I initially quoted you, I believe, because you stated emphatically that it won't happen in your games.  I feel the same way about that position as you feel about people that believe it must happen.  As I said earlier, the Shepards that I had that actually finished the game don't have to think about whether or not it can or can't happen, there are no Reapers, and there is no Catalyst, in any form.  For the rest of them, there is no advanced galactic civilization to worry about it, because Shepard died on the way to the beam, and the Reapers finished the Harvest, reset the Citadel, and eventually retreated back to Dark Space to wait for the next cycle.  Both are clean, simple, and while the latter offers no hope for this cycle, the former at least puts the fate of the galaxy on the people of the galaxy, even if it does wind up in a protracted dark age due to the breakdown of the relay system/citadel.  No matter how that actually plays out, there is no possible chance for ShepAI to lose it, and restart the cycles.  There is no Shepard to make the AI, and there are no Reapers to harvest with.

Every single advanced civilization at the time started out w/out technology, and so can rebuild with the knowledge they have.  It may indeed take a long time to do so, but they are free to do it w/out fear of the Reapers coming back to harvest them once they get back where they were.  Regardless of whether a ShepAI would ever do it or not, there isn't one to toss a coin on the subject.  So, sitting comfortably in my armchair, discussing the possible ramifications of each ending, destroying the Reapers/Catalyst, and risking a dark age are favorable to risking the chance of resuming what the Catalyst started, no matter how far in the future.

Note:  Nowhere in this fictional set up do I claim that it must go this way, or that way.  The fact that the possibility exists is enough for me to not consider the choice.  I don't need to metagame these possibilities, all I need do is look out into space around the Citadel, which is now parked over Earth, instead of it's original home, and see what could happen.  I can see what could happen as it is happening.  I can consider what happened with the Geth and Quarians.  I can consider what I know from Javik regarding the Metacon War(?). 

As to how much I could be corrupted by power, did I save the Council, or let them die?  Did I support Udina's power hungry rants at the end of ME 1?  Did I bother to appoint a Councilor, or did I place my mission priority ahead of gaining political favor?  The list goes on, and  covers choices over all three games to see, will I really have Galactic Interests in mind, or will I be self serving, helping those I believe need the help over those I didn't care for, such as the Salarians after the Tuchanka missions in 3?  These are all factors in whether or not I can be a benevolent deity, or someone to fear every bit as much as the original Catalyst.  Because at the end of the day, ShepAI is a deity.  Benevolent or malevolent will depend on a lot of factors, such as the ones I touched on, and a multitude of others, and will also be PoV according to whom you ask, and how I've dealt with them both in the course of three games and after I Assumed Control.

[Slayer299]

No OP, Control is not the *only* ending, it is the only ending for *you*. Don't confuse the two.

[Hadeedak]

Daniel_N7 wrote...


Don't... tempt me Frodo! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand, Frodo. I would use this ring from a desire to do good... But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.

Hey. Hey. Time to annoy everyone with some flashbacks. Ready for this?

"With great power comes great responsibility!" :happy:

[Applepie_Svk]

Hadeedak wrote...


"With great power comes great responsibility!" :happy:

So uncle Ben knew it right since a beginning !  He knew how the end of ME3 will ends and tried to warn us ! 

[Hadeedak]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...


"With great power comes great responsibility!" :happy:

So uncle Ben knew it right since a beginning !  He knew how the end of ME3 will ends and tried to warn us ! 

Mass Effect has ruined Martin Sheen for me. Or made him completely awesome. Seriously, I was making Mass Effect jokes when he guest-spotted in Praerie Home Companion.

[dreamgazer]

Hadeedak wrote...

Mass Effect has ruined Martin Sheen for me. Or made him completely awesome. Seriously, I was making Mass Effect jokes when he guest-spotted in Praerie Home Companion.

"Everyone gets everything he wants. I wanted a mission, and for my sins, they gave me one. Brought it up to me like room service. It was a real choice mission, and when it was over, I'd never want another."

[Daniel_N7]

@Hadeedak I don't mean to annoy anyone with the LOTR quote but I do think it applies. Many people choose Control with the desire to do good. But what is "good" in the mind of the ShepAI. Are you willing to gamble the fate of the civilizations of the galaxy on your (Shepard's) hope that it will all be alright. Because that's what you're choosing right there.

But hey what do I know. I'm a Krogan. I'll shoot the tubes every day.

Of course, one can see the beauty in a dominant Femshep AI. Quoting Galadriel...
"In place of the Dark Lord, you would have a Queen! Not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the Sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!"

[ruggly]

LOTR quotes?

"Mash 'em, boil 'em, stick them in a stew!"

[Kel Riever]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...


"With great power comes great responsibility!" :happy:

So uncle Ben knew it right since a beginning !  He knew how the end of ME3 will ends and tried to warn us ! 

I don't know about quotes, but Uncle Ben apparently makes some very popular rice.

[AlanC9]

robertthebard wrote...
...and yet, the Catalyst was certainly heavy handed in it's approach to solving the problem it was created to solve.  We don't know how long it took it to come to it's ultimate solution.  We can't know whether or not, over the vastness that is eternity, that ShepAI won't come to the same conclusion.

But over the vastness that is eternity, the ShepAI wouldn't maintain its technological or military superiority anyway. 

Note:  Nowhere in this fictional set up do I claim that it must go this way, or that way.  The fact that the possibility exists is enough for me to not consider the choice.  

How come this one possibility trumps possibilities wher the ShepAI is not only good, but also the ones where he's ecessary to avoid disaster?

Modifié par AlanC9, 28 mars 2013 - 03:56 .