170 réponses à ce sujet

[riceadam1923]

I might prefer it if there were no romances. Romancing Ashley in the first game only to have her entire character rewritten from a tough soldier who believes in God to a ditsy sorority girl upset me. It might be nice to have no romances.

[ShaggyWolf]

On one hand, I'd say yeah, because the characters themselves are still amazing, the story (at least in the first 2 games) was interesting, and the universe is rich and unique.

That said, Shepard's LI is one of the precious few distinguishable and personal choices a player will make during the whole series. Rewriting or destroying the heritics? No real consequence or narrative difference. It doesn't matter. Keeping or destroying the base? You get a different number of war assets at the end of a story which plays out exactly the same regardless of what you chose. Kill or spare Sidonis? Maelon? None of it matters.

Shepard's LI? There's got to be dozens of possible choices you can make throughout the series, factoring in all the different characters you can romance across all three games. Romance Liara? You get to see conversations and cinematics that someone else might never see. Play a male character? You can romance characters that female Shepards cannot. Romance Ashley in ME1, then Miranda in ME2? You get conversations in ME3 that people who romanced only one or the other won't get to see.

The variables, character development, and different potential outcomes are things that all choices in the series should've had. I don't think I'd be cool with Bioware eliminating one of the major things that make my playthroughs feel like they're really mine.

Modifié par Valadras21, 28 mars 2013 - 08:27 .

[Newschmoo]

I do like the romance aspect, it adds to the game and there aren't many games that have that or do it well.

Saying that I played ME2 without Shepard romancing anyone (I had imported a Femshep who had romanced Kaidan in ME1) and I have to admit that I was fine with that and still really enjoyed the game. But I suppose there was still that element there in terms on the photo on the desk.

[nrobbiec]

Good question.

On one hand yeah I love the story. But on the other hand its unique offering of a same-sex Kaidan romance in ME1/2/3 was one of the main reasons I bought them.

Modifié par nrobbiec, 28 mars 2013 - 02:48 .

[kumquats]

Yes, there have been BW games, where I didn't like anyone and just didn't do the romances. I don't need them, but they are a welcome addition.

[Cobretti ftw]

What kind of question is that?

Of f***ing course.

I play ME because i like sci fi and Rpg's. The romances are cool but they are just a bonus.

Hol-e cow

[RogueBot]

Personally, romances were never that important. My two imported files both romanced Ashley, but I didn't really mind when they butchered her in ME3. It was just some minor thing.

[Nykara]

Newschmoo wrote...

I do like the romance aspect, it adds to the game and there aren't many games that have that or do it well.

Saying that I played ME2 without Shepard romancing anyone (I had imported a Femshep who had romanced Kaidan in ME1) and I have to admit that I was fine with that and still really enjoyed the game. But I suppose there was still that element there in terms on the photo on the desk.

The bolded text is probably the most important part. Other games have done some romance type stuff in it but NONE have done it as well as Bioware has, at least not that I have seen. Not even close. It's one of the things that has drawn me to the ME series in the first place.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Rikketik wrote...

Sure, as long as the character interaction is still there. Romance can be a part of that, but it doesn't have to be. For example, at the end of Persona 3 Portable (female route), I felt close to many of my social links, particularly the ones from SEES, without actually starting a relationship with anyone. I think it would be the same with Mass Effect.

*gasps*

You didn't romance Shinji or Ryoji?



I couldn't do it.

Only LI I can resist is Ken. For obvious reasons.

My fem protag brings all the boys to the yard. <3  Yes she did Theodore too. He's hot.

You know, the contemporary Persona series (read: Persona 3 and Persona 4) is the only series I've played which consistently have made me interested and invested in the idea of player character romances.

Bioware romances by and large don't interest me: Lelenia was the only exception in DAO, but my canonical-Renegade MaleShep was pretty much no-romance, and my FemShep only started romancing Kaiden and Jacob so that their subsequent tragic deaths would help her character arc. Otherwise, most character romances don't hold much an appeal for me (in Mass Effect, in-team subordinate lovin is anathema to my military expectations of leaders and good order: in Dragon Age, few of the females attracted me for various character flaws), and even in more linear/less RPG-ish games I'm more ambivalent. Some canonical romances do it well enough that I nod and think it fits, like in Deus Ex Human Revolution, and others I just roll my eyes.


The Persona series... I'm not sure why it is, really: probably not only because the characters are well developed, but because of the length of the interaction before the romance option. The ten-scene social link setting gives a good deal of time to both develop and explore the character, main characters get the whole plot line to interact and develop and possibly flirt, and the strong emphasis on characters maturing over their storyline ends up with the relationship being with a young, self-actualized adult, rather than someone relatively static except in their affections to you.

Plus, Persona 4 really nails down the levers that work on me. Oh, Yumi, why do you have to confess with your back turned, telling me to walk away and break your heart?

I kid abit: I don't really project myself into the games as much, so for me having the MC pair up with someone works because it's good for that character. For me, it's the pleasure of watching someone you came close to (the MC in this case) get together with someone, rather than self-projection. Since the JRPG main characters tend to be a bit more character-defined than Bioware protagonists, maybe that's why it works for me: the girl (or guy) falls in love with someone with a more or less established personality, rather than a blank slate who could be a total **** but says a few nice lines (Tali, I'm looking at you).

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 mars 2013 - 11:49 .

[Krypplingz]

Would I have bought it back then if it had no romance?
No, the only reason I gave the game a try was because of the gushing over Kaidan in his romance thread. I had seen the game before and read some reviews and it sounded really unappealing to me so I doubt I would have bothered if not for the Kaidanites.

Knowing what I do now, would I buy the game without romances?
Maybe the first game, it was fun to me. The other two, probably not.
Maybe if they were on sale. I'm not fond of shooters and the only space theme that sounds appealing to me is traveling out in space and exploring new planets (Mako missions with more plot, if that explains anything.)

[andy6915]

Of course. The romances are just for extra role-playing, scenes, and dialogue. They help to add extra drama and touching moments, and humanize Shepard a bit. They're not vital though, and the stuff they add to the story isn't such a huge deal that it makes the games much worse... A trilogy run with a Shepard that stays single for all 3 games proves that.

[JacobLover]

That is an interesting question.  I have come to expect them.  I was SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTUNNED to encounter them in ME2 as I was and continue to be a stranger to the RPG and at the time I was a stranger to video games in general.  They really enhance the experience.  They would certainly be missed if they were removed. 

[knightnblu]

The definition of role playing is to play a role for entertainment purposes. So it is like real life in that you make decisions and take action, but it is also not real life because of the circumstances in the game. That said, romance is an enjoyable part of an RPG. It is not, however, a necessary part. I have never heard of someone saying that they would have purchased a game if only it had a romance in it. On the other hand, in game romances are seldom what one could describe as "good."

Meeting someone, knowing them for a short time, and then hopping into the sack with them does not a romance make. That is a one night stand at best. In fact, that's why we find brothels in an RPG because it is far easier than to script a bad romance. BioWare had the ability to actually do a good romance in Mass Effect, but decided that the juice wasn't really worth the squeeze when they truncated Liara and Williams' romances in ME2. In fact, I have long wondered how many of those guys managed to obtain a wife. I have long suspected that they were arranged marriages decided upon when they were infants.

In fact, I would suggest that given the dearth of good romances in video games that many of us wouldn't know a good romance in game if it hit us between the eyes with a 2x4. In fact, it's like your little brother who tries to play catch with you. He tries real hard, but he can't toss the ball worth spit.

Maybe one day.

[shepskisaac]

Considering that there was no gay romances in ME1/ME2 whatsoever and it didn't even seem realistic to expect at that point, after 2 games already lacked it, the answer is obviously yes, would still play it, like the 99.99% other games on the market that don't have gay romances/content. Doesn't mean I'm not very glad ME3 had them and that I wouldn't like to see more in other games both from Bioware and other developers

[Dean_the_Young]

IsaacShep wrote...

Considering that there was no gay romances in ME1/ME2 whatsoever and it didn't even seem realistic to expect at that point, after 2 games already lacked it, the answer is obviously yes, would still play it, like the 99.99% other games on the market that don't have gay romances/content. Doesn't mean I'm not very glad ME3 had them and that I wouldn't like to see more in other games both from Bioware and other developers

You know, I'm kind of sad at the general ME premise of 'you're the military officer in charge of a ship: let's give you a bunch of subordinates to sleep around with.' Given the sort of implications and effects associated that drive actual militaries to ban such things, 'I'm a Spectre and so rules don't apply to me' or 'I'm hanging with terrorists so rules don't apply to me' doesn't quite cut it. I don't think I'll ever feel comfortable with any RPG love-interest scenario in which the player is both the leading authority figure AND the one dipping the pen in the company ink. DA2 is the best of Bioware's protagonist groups, since Hawke's group is so informal, unstructured, and ad hoc that Hawke can barely be considered the leader in half the missions... I just don't particularly for any of the love interests as love interests.


Which is a shame for Mass Effect 3, because from what I saw the Steve Cortez relationship was a brave attempt at something relatively new in contemporary video game romances: not just the gay romance, but a romance with someone who was not only previously married, but recently... bachelored? I've heard moans about cheesiness involved, and personally the prospect of being a rebound relationship would make me nervous, but the Steve Cortez set up was actually interesting in its set up and lead-in... it just had to fall on a male Shep who doesn't fratrinize with any subordinate like that.

[someguy1231]

Not only would I buy it, I'd prefer it not to have romances. Then they could focus those resources on much more important things, like more planets/sidequests.

[Nykara]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Considering that there was no gay romances in ME1/ME2 whatsoever and it didn't even seem realistic to expect at that point, after 2 games already lacked it, the answer is obviously yes, would still play it, like the 99.99% other games on the market that don't have gay romances/content. Doesn't mean I'm not very glad ME3 had them and that I wouldn't like to see more in other games both from Bioware and other developers

You know, I'm kind of sad at the general ME premise of 'you're the military officer in charge of a ship: let's give you a bunch of subordinates to sleep around with.' Given the sort of implications and effects associated that drive actual militaries to ban such things, 'I'm a Spectre and so rules don't apply to me' or 'I'm hanging with terrorists so rules don't apply to me' doesn't quite cut it. I don't think I'll ever feel comfortable with any RPG love-interest scenario in which the player is both the leading authority figure AND the one dipping the pen in the company ink. DA2 is the best of Bioware's protagonist groups, since Hawke's group is so informal, unstructured, and ad hoc that Hawke can barely be considered the leader in half the missions... I just don't particularly for any of the love interests as love interests.


Which is a shame for Mass Effect 3, because from what I saw the Steve Cortez relationship was a brave attempt at something relatively new in contemporary video game romances: not just the gay romance, but a romance with someone who was not only previously married, but recently... bachelored? I've heard moans about cheesiness involved, and personally the prospect of being a rebound relationship would make me nervous, but the Steve Cortez set up was actually interesting in its set up and lead-in... it just had to fall on a male Shep who doesn't fratrinize with any subordinate like that.

RE: Bold section.
It wasn't actually that way at all in ME1. There was either Kaidan and Liara if you for Femshep or Ashley and Liara if you where ManShep. I can't speak for Ashley but I do know that Kaidan in fact was hesitating at the romance at first as was Shepard. Liara is an alien and doesn't count as she is not part of the aliance military in the first place.
By the time Shepard does sleep with Ash or Kaidan she is then in fact  a Spectre 'above the standard rules' and not only that they had basically been ditched by the alliance. I do not see any rules where actually broken there.

ME2 Shepard was with Cerberus and not even working for the alliance.

By ME3 Shep was well and truely working on his/her own save the odd contact with earth and most of the romances if any had already been established - those people where picked up because their help was needed in the fight against the Reapers. Hell, Kaidan/Ash where even already on the ship and Liara was on Mars. There's three of the romances right there that didn't even really get much say if they should be on the same ship or not it was a matter of circumstances.

[Lawrence0294]

Probably.
A romance is very important to me, not just in Mass Effect but in stories in general.
It's capable of giving so much emotional depth and attachement to characters.
But it is not necessary. You can tell great stories without romances, it is just harded to make me care as much as a romance would. But not impossible.

[Gerudan]

Sure, romances are nice to have, but nothing more. Specially since they aren't handled as well, as they could have been.

If you're nice to your crew, you basically HAVE to tell everyone to "keep it professional" (except the LI you actually want) or you would start a romance with everyone available. That makes it a bit unbelievable.

Modifié par Gerudan, 28 mars 2013 - 01:13 .

[wright1978]

Lawrence0294 wrote...

Probably.
A romance is very important to me, not just in Mass Effect but in stories in general.
It's capable of giving so much emotional depth and attachement to characters.
But it is not necessary. You can tell great stories without romances, it is just harder to make me care as much as a romance would. But not impossible.

Agree completely

[Dean_the_Young]

Nykara wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Considering that there was no gay romances in ME1/ME2 whatsoever and it didn't even seem realistic to expect at that point, after 2 games already lacked it, the answer is obviously yes, would still play it, like the 99.99% other games on the market that don't have gay romances/content. Doesn't mean I'm not very glad ME3 had them and that I wouldn't like to see more in other games both from Bioware and other developers

You know, I'm kind of sad at the general ME premise of 'you're the military officer in charge of a ship: let's give you a bunch of subordinates to sleep around with.' Given the sort of implications and effects associated that drive actual militaries to ban such things, 'I'm a Spectre and so rules don't apply to me' or 'I'm hanging with terrorists so rules don't apply to me' doesn't quite cut it. I don't think I'll ever feel comfortable with any RPG love-interest scenario in which the player is both the leading authority figure AND the one dipping the pen in the company ink. DA2 is the best of Bioware's protagonist groups, since Hawke's group is so informal, unstructured, and ad hoc that Hawke can barely be considered the leader in half the missions... I just don't particularly for any of the love interests as love interests.


Which is a shame for Mass Effect 3, because from what I saw the Steve Cortez relationship was a brave attempt at something relatively new in contemporary video game romances: not just the gay romance, but a romance with someone who was not only previously married, but recently... bachelored? I've heard moans about cheesiness involved, and personally the prospect of being a rebound relationship would make me nervous, but the Steve Cortez set up was actually interesting in its set up and lead-in... it just had to fall on a male Shep who doesn't fratrinize with any subordinate like that.

RE: Bold section.
It wasn't actually that way at all in ME1. There was either Kaidan and Liara if you for Femshep or Ashley and Liara if you where ManShep. I can't speak for Ashley but I do know that Kaidan in fact was hesitating at the romance at first as was Shepard. Liara is an alien and doesn't count as she is not part of the aliance military in the first place.
By the time Shepard does sleep with Ash or Kaidan she is then in fact  a Spectre 'above the standard rules' and not only that they had basically been ditched by the alliance. I do not see any rules where actually broken there.

Kaiden, Liara, and Ashley are your subordinates in ME1, simultaneous to being love interests. That's not really in question, especially when Kaiden and Ashley acknowledge it outright. Trying to pardon Liara on the technicality of her not being part of the Alliance doesn't change the dynamic: she is a subordinate of Shepard's, on Shepard's own ship, and a part of Shepard's own team. It is still a subordinate-superior relationship.

These relationships aren't looked down upon as bad because the rules exist: the rules exist because these sort of relationships cause trouble inside the team. It isn't a chicken or the egg delimma: the rules were created in reaction because of the impetus that caused them. To quote myself: Given the sort of implications and effects associated that drive actual militaries to ban such things, 'I'm a Spectre and so rules don't apply to me' or 'I'm hanging with terrorists so rules don't apply to me' doesn't quite cut it.

ME2 Shepard was with Cerberus and not even working for the alliance.

And I'll quote myself again:

Given the sort of implications and effects associated that drive actual
militaries to ban such things, 'I'm a Spectre and so rules don't apply
to me' or 'I'm hanging with terrorists so rules don't apply to me'
doesn't quite cut it.

By ME3 Shep was well and truely working on his/her own save the odd contact with earth and most of the romances if any had already been established - those people where picked up because their help was needed in the fight against the Reapers. Hell, Kaidan/Ash where even already on the ship and Liara was on Mars. There's three of the romances right there that didn't even really get much say if they should be on the same ship or not it was a matter of circumstances.

Shepard and company are part of a team. Relationships inside a team cause problems for the team: divided loyalties, favoritism, bias, double standards, and sub-division are all problems that easily arise from even the most well-intentioned of romantic relationships, even without the prospects of breakups and other forms of drama. These problems get worse, much worse, when it's the leader involved with a subordinate: it's why the idea of a personal conflict of interest is recognized and applied not only in the military, but most areas of employment. Even bankers and politicians are supposed to openly disclose their relationships, personal and professional.

Whether the Love Interests had a say or not in the dynamic doesn't matter: subordinate-superior relationships are a Bad Thing for group integrity because of the conflict of interest and drama that comes along with them. The only proven remedy for it is to break the conflict of interest: whether by not having a romantic relationship (stay friends and keep it professional), or to remove the emotional investment from the superior's area of responsibility (transfering the soldier to another unit, or another ship).

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 mars 2013 - 01:26 .

[Zazzerka]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Given the sort of implications and effects associated that drive actual
militaries to ban such things, 'I'm a Spectre and so rules don't apply
to me' or 'I'm hanging with terrorists so rules don't apply to me'
doesn't quite cut it.

Liara's a civvy, baby. Loopholes, hell yeah.

[Dean_the_Young]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Given the sort of implications and effects associated that drive actual
militaries to ban such things, 'I'm a Spectre and so rules don't apply
to me' or 'I'm hanging with terrorists so rules don't apply to me'
doesn't quite cut it.

Liara's a civvy, baby. Loopholes, hell yeah.

Being a civilian isn't a loophole for what you quoted, any more than being a Spectre is a loophole. Shepard isn't a bad leader if he/she sleeps around with the crew because the rules say not to: Shepard is being a bad leader because sleeping around with the crew is an aspect of bad leadership, in the same way that if Shepard couldn't fight or take orders then Shepard wouldn't be a good soldier.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 mars 2013 - 01:53 .

[superg30]

no, in an RPG you should be able to become your character, do what you want to do, and be with who you want to be with.

[Dean_the_Young]

superg30 wrote...

no, in an RPG you should be able to become your character, do what you want to do, and be with who you want to be with.

That's not role playing as much as god complex. Role playing is implicity partnered with restrictions and limitations, not unlimited activity.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 mars 2013 - 01:55 .