32 réponses à ce sujet

[ffbj]

Yikes. Yeah right I never said it was silly just that it made no sense. I suppose I should have said it made no sense to me. Btw the way I never read the supposedly incredibly rude original response from Lazarus (according to MM), so no offense taken there. Besides he removed it. I must admit I imagined that my reply would in all likelyhood start a flaming response, so for that I am guilty for pushing someones button, and for that I appologise to Larazus and all others in this thread for being uncharitable. Interesting thread though.
Oh btw the approach I was suggesting would still be on while moving and if you don't want that on, expertise, then my approach would not work. I just seems to me that while moving you are harder to hit, oh well. Of course the confusing thing about combat actions is that they don't cover all the scenarios. That is once you are in combat, is when these restrictions apply, of course no two combat conditions can be active at the same time. So if I am in combat and have expertise up then moving will cancel it, as Lazarus points out. But as MM, and others say I could be out of combat activate expertise while moving...etc...

Again it was not my intention to elicit angry responses though I still feel it makes less sense for archers to have it. It could be resonably defended if you are giving the archer the same minus to their AB. I was 100% sure that I would get a negative response, apparently quite rude, and for that reason I should not have said It did not make any sense.
Sorry 'bout that.

[kalbaern]

You can actually move and have Expertise/Improved Expertise active just as "MM" has pointed out. Its an unintended flaw in the NWN mechanics is all. Click on a target to attack or click on the ground half way across a map and then quickly activate your desired mode of expertise and you'll enter it while still moving. You can also activate an expertise mode while stationary and then target an NPC to attack with a melee weapon or unarmed and you'll move towards them with the effect active as well. Activating an expertise mode and targetting a placeable or door will leave it active as you move. These work even with the Module switch to disable expertise abuse enabled.

Expertise is lost only after the following:
- No more attackers within melee range and expertise modes turn off.
- Equipping a ranged weapon (even when moving as described above).
- Clicking on terrain to move after expertise is enabled or moving using the keyboard (W,A,S,D,Q,E).
- Resting.

Using 3 seprate methods? I don't use exploits, so I am not sure what you are talking about here. By default you can not use expertise while moving (except when already engaged with a target who is fleeing). I will give you 100 to 1 odds on that bet. Again... I actually play this game, and don't cheat so... yeah, I am fairly confident in that.

Whether or not what I and the rest have described is "cheating" is up to each Module Designer and PW Admin to determine. I do see it as exploiting a flaw in the game mechanics myself. However, with no way to reliably halt the practice or even easily police it (DMs would have to constantly be checking a PC's Armor class constantly to see if they are abusing expertise or not) I accept it ... mostly. Using the keyboard for movement has its own set of abuses (especially in PvP or to move "faster" whilst encumberered) that I've had to ignore ... mostly.

Lastly, just because a "loophole" or outright "exploit" in the game mechanics isn't pointed out in the NWNWiki doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The Wiki Pages rarely (if ever) point out such flaws (which I approve of them omitting).

[MagicalMaster]

kalbaern wrote...

I do see it as exploiting a flaw in the game mechanics myself. However, with no way to reliably halt the practice or even easily police it (DMs would have to constantly be checking a PC's Armor class constantly to see if they are abusing expertise or not) I accept it ... mostly.

If Expertise always activated instantly when you hit it, I might understand this sentiment - but you HAVE to hit Expertise before you start attacking (and likely while running toward a target) or else you'll spend a combat round not using it.  Same for Power Attack or Rapid Shot or Flurry or Defensive Casting or any mode.

No one would complain that activating Power Attack/Rapid Shot/Flurry/Defensive Casting ahead of time is exploitative - because none of those offer benefits when not actually attacking/casting.  Expertise does, however, which is the "problem."  I also loathe the idea of (Improved) Expertise in general for several reasons, but that's a matter for another thread.

[Lazarus Magni]

Well I would just like to say I am sorry to everyone too. I think the previous bad blood between MM and I is so thick, it doesn’t take more than a drop of a match to get it to boil over. And MM, I do appreciate you backing off and giving me some time to cool off.

I am going through a major transition in my real life, back to work after a very long time of un-employment, and it is taking me a while to adjust. I would like NWN1 to be recreational, and something I enjoy, and not have my interactions with some community members make me see red. It’s certainly not healthy for me, or the community.

I do ask you, MM (and others who don’t seem to like me), to please refrain from intentionally trying to goad me, or push my buttons. I will certainly do the same. We all love this game, or we wouldn’t still be involved with it, so it should be something we all get enjoyment from, and not be something that stirs up bad feelings.

[Lazarus Magni]

"That's Life" - Frank Sinatra

[MagicalMaster]

Lazarus Magni wrote...

I think the previous bad blood between MM and I is so thick, it doesn’t take more than a drop of a match to get it to boil over. And MM, I do appreciate you backing off and giving me some time to cool off.

For what it's worth, the *only* time I have *ever* been angry with you was in this thread after your original reply to ffbj.  Period.  I think you sometimes use hyperbole regarding NWN losing players and have expectations for developers that are extrodinarily idealistic, but I don't dislike you for that, let alone hate you or something.

Lazarus Magni wrote...

I am going through a major transition in my real life, back to work after a very long time of un-employment, and it is taking me a while to adjust. I would like NWN1 to be recreational, and something I enjoy, and not have my interactions with some community members make me see red. It’s certainly not healthy for me, or the community

I'm sorry to hear that.  Honestly.  I hope you figure things out and get back on track.

[ffbj]

Yeah, and good luck in your new job, and I don't dislike you either. I just did not agree with the idea you were proposing, and I probably should have just kept it to myself.

[Highv Priest]

I know SetActionMode has this nasty tendency to ignore the requirements of the mode to activate. Originally I had some Shadow Dancer enemies who would HiPS every once in a while if you weren't directly targetting, but they could hips whether directly attacking you or not. It made them QUITE FEARSOME. It was akin to a player Shadow Dancer who would quickly cancel combat to enter stealth except they didn't have to. They would just keep HiPSing you the entire time they're swinging at you and there wasn't anything you could do to stop them because you couldn't be directly targetting a group of 4 enemies at once. Eventually I fixed it, but it taught me SetActionMode doesn't follow the rules.