Questa discussione ha avuto 49 risposte

[SWkazashi]

My plan was to use the Wraith for its relatively lighter weight compared to the Claymore and more suited for power users. I would use the High Velocity Barrel V and Shredder Mod V. Backup weapon would be something lightwieght [any suggestions?] paired with Warp Ammo which has Damage, Ammo Capacity and Danage. This means my wraith can wreak havoc, right? But i cant. Can anyone explain the 'shotgun sentinel' way?

[brad2240]

Shredder mod is unneccessary when you're using HVB. Yes, I beleive they do stack with each other but it's overkill. Instead use the Smart Choke to tighten the Wraith's already decent accuracy. Remember that you can also debuff armored enemies with Warp and/or Cryo Blast.

There is absolutely no need for a second weapon on this build, or any caster, IMO. If you really want one, though, go for a pistol like the Paladin or Carnifex, maybe with Ultra-light Materials if you feel you need it.

Use your powers to compliment your gunfire. Set up shots against mooks by Overloading them first to stun them. Use Warp or Cryo first on bosses to debuff them.

[Abraham_uk]

Wraith is a good enough shotgun for your sentinel.

You could take another weapon. Take a pistol. So when close quarters combat is not a wise option, you can still shoot enemies.

You might want to borrow an ammo power from a squad mate.
Oh and stack a second defense power.

I hear fortification isn't too shabby.
It provides the best power damage bonuses,
It's cool down penalties aren't as bad as barrier and defense matrix.
It provides the best damage reduction of the three bonus defense powers.
It does stack with tech armor.
When purged you get a bonus to melee damage (which is ideal since you are using a close quarters build).

[capn233]

If you are starting a new game, don't spend any of your money and save as much for the Wraith. You should be able to get it around Priority: Sur'Kesh. Which is essentially the mission before Claymore is available. With the MP buffs, Wraith is very good. I imagine my poor old Adept shotgun comparison is completely invalid now.

In any event, HVB and Smart Choke is the way to go. Although Wraith has good accuracy, the only time I would drop Choke is if I was running a melee build and wanted to use a blade. Before you get HVB you can choose whether to run HCB or Shredder. Both have their place.

[spockjedi]

Defense Matrix can save your life a lot of times thanks to the quick panic button.
The Wraith is the best shotgun overall. A disciple with the smart choke can work well too. Bring a squadmate that provides an ammo power.
An ultralight SMG is the best backup weapon, but sadly the long-ranged Locust is only available at the end of the game. If you want a pistol, go for the Phalanx, since it's very lightweight and more effective than the Predator. It's also good to have at least one weapon with a piercing mod.

[RA RA XD]

Talon. 'nuff said.

[Abraham_uk]

RA RA XD wrote...

Talon. 'nuff said.

"nuff said" doesn't quite do the Talon any justice.
We've really got to stop saying "nuff said" as a response.

Talon is a pistol/shotgun hybrid (like the Pistole from the Uncharted series).
It delivers heavy damage, can knock enemies backwards, has the spread of a shotgun and sounds like a powerful gun.

Best of all, if you attach a scope, you have a ranged shotgun that can be used to snipe targets.

This pistol does have extreme recoil, but since it's rate of fire isn't that great this recoil doesn't matter too much.


The Talon is available during the Cerberus Coup on the Citadel (roughly mid game).
I missed this weapon and only discovered it on one of my later playthroughs.

Search the Citadel carefully.
If you finish the mission without picking up this gun, replay the mission.


This is also a great weapon should you unlock it in multiplayer. See video.

[Abraham_uk]

Oh, did I mention that the gun is lightweight?

Yep. A light weight shotgun the size of your fist.

[Guglio08]

Pick Energy Drain for your bonus power. Radius / Drain / Armor Boost. For Tech Armor, go Detonation / Power Damage / Power Speed Penalty.

Take the Piranha is you have it, or the Scimitar if you don't. The HVB is relatively worthless in SP, so you want the Shredder Mod and the Smart Choke.

Pick Inferno Armor. Quick map Energy Drain, Tech Armor, and Cryo Blast. Turn on Tech Armor and rush the enemies. If shielded, spam Energy Drain. Otherwise, spam Cryo Blast. Kill everything. For armored enemies, Warp + Throw.

[RA RA XD]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Oh, did I mention that the gun is lightweight?

Yep. A light weight shotgun the size of your fist.

This is what I meant. Top notch gun for just about any class that needs a light weight loadout that deals massive close quaters damage

[xassantex]

i'm doing a shotgun tech Sentinel right now, only Cryo blast and Overload with the Venom.
When i have enough saved i will go with the Wraith .
I also use both Tech Armor and Barrier ( as bonus) since they stack. Once fully evolved you're really tanky. It does slow down power usage but if you bring Garrus, Kaidan or EDI for their Overload, you can focus on Cryo Blast.
The Venom is a bit cheesy, but it's fun.

[SWkazashi]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Sorry but i find no use for the cryo blast as the damned thing keeps missing again and again.

So Wraith, no secondary weapon with HVB and smart choke and defense matrix as bonus power. Correct?

[Guglio08]

The Wraith in SP is awful. Most of the enemies you fight in SP have health. Use the Scimitar with HVB and Smart Choke.

[RedCaesar97]

Guglio08 wrote...

The Wraith in SP is awful. Most of the enemies you fight in SP have health.

Wait, what?
Since patch 1.05, the Single Player Wraith has the same stats as the Multiplayer Wraith. 

The only downside to the Wraith in single player is its cost, which can be very prohibitive. Otherwise it is a very light shotgun that deals a lot of damage.

[capn233]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Wait, what?
Since patch 1.05, the Single Player Wraith has the same stats as the Multiplayer Wraith. 

The only downside to the Wraith in single player is its cost, which can be very prohibitive. Otherwise it is a very light shotgun that deals a lot of damage.

I agree.

Before the buff it was in an odd place.  It was useful, but on a non-weapons class it didn't have much of an advantage over the Eviscerator in terms of units that it could one-shot (at least at Level V in a new game).  Basically just a very small range advantage.  If you had a lot of weapon bonuses and good ammo it would have helped.  But it was arguable that it wasn't worth the money since you got the Eviscerator at Grissom Academy, which occurs around the earliest time you can afford the Wraith anyway.

With the buffs it does nearly Claymore damage per shot but weighs less than half as much.

[Fiery Phoenix]

In terms of effectiveness for a Sentinel, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the different shotguns as long as you stick to an appropriate playstyle. Sentinel is one of those classes that are surprisingly flexible and as such I find any weapon can be a good choice with it. What I do recommend you focus on is to have some kind of balance by also equipping a good pistol (Paladin is best if you can afford it) to make up for any potential downsides. The shotgun you use doesn't matter too much as long as it's one you think you're comfortable with. However, I wouldn't recommend the Claymore since it's slow and can be impractical if you aren't used to shotguns (mainly due to it's weight and one-shot nature).

Modificata da Fiery Phoenix, 01 aprile 2013 - 04:51 .

[spockjedi]

I think the Wraith is worth the high price. With everything at Level V, you can equip it with an Ultralight SMG and a light pistol (Predator, Phalanx) and still retain a +190% cooldown bonus.

[Abraham_uk]

spockjedi wrote...

I think the Wraith is worth the high price. With everything at Level V, you can equip it with an Ultralight SMG and a light pistol (Predator, Phalanx) and still retain a +190% cooldown bonus.

Regarding power spamming sentinels who love their shotguns.

At what point does the cooldown bonus start to hurt (for you personally)?

Is 150% cooldown bonus still decent?
What about 100% cooldown bonus?
50%.

I find that once I reach 150% I begin to notice the cooldowns being slow.
But in range 150-200% cooldown bonus, I can even slap on fortification and still be rapid.

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...

spockjedi wrote...

I think the Wraith is worth the high price. With everything at Level V, you can equip it with an Ultralight SMG and a light pistol (Predator, Phalanx) and still retain a +190% cooldown bonus.

Regarding power spamming sentinels who love their shotguns.

At what point does the cooldown bonus start to hurt (for you personally)?

Is 150% cooldown bonus still decent?
What about 100% cooldown bonus?
50%.

I find that once I reach 150% I begin to notice the cooldowns being slow.
But in range 150-200% cooldown bonus, I can even slap on fortification and still be rapid.

A lot of that depends on whether you have Tech Armor and possibly another armor power activated. Tech Armor adds a 50% cooldown penalty by default (20% with the Recharge Speed evolution at rank 5).

Math to follow.

- - -

From Power Stat Upgrades - Official Math Formula Explanation, if the sum of all recharge speed bonuses and penalties is a positive number, then the recharge speed formula is as follows:

New Value = Base Value at Rank 1 * (1.0 / (1.0 + Sum of all rank bonuses + Dynamic Bonuses))

So using Warp (base 8 second base recharge speed) as an example:

1) With +200% weapon weight, no Tech Armor, rank 2 (+25% recharge speed), and no other bonuses:
Warp Recharge Speed = 8 x (1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.00) = 2.46 seconds

2) With +150% weapon weight, no Tech Armor, rank 2 (+25% recharge speed), and no other bonuses:
Warp Recharge Speed = 8 x (1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.00 - 0.5) = 2.9 seconds

Note that this is the same value as +200% weapon weight with full Tech Armor cooldown penalty (50%).

3) With +100% weapon weight, no Tech Armor, rank 2 (+25% recharge speed), and no other bonuses:
Warp Recharge Speed = 8 x (1/(1 + 0.25 + 1.50 - 0.5) = 3.56 seconds

Note that this is the same value as +150% weapon weight with Tech Armor full cooldown penalty (50%).

4) With +50% weapon weight, no Tech Armor, rank 2 (+25% recharge speed), and no other bonuses:
Warp Recharge Speed = 8 x (1/(1 + 0.25 + 1.00 - 0.5) = 4.57

Note that this is the same value as +100% weapon weight with Tech Armor full cooldown penalty (50%)..

- - - 

So with the above Warp examples:
1) Difference between +200% and +150% weapon weight: about 0.5 seconds
2) Difference between +200% and +100% weapon weight: just over 1 second
3) Difference between +200% and +50% weapon weight: just over 2 seconds

Note that other powers may have different cooldowns, so the differences between weapon weights may be more or less extreme.

- - -

This was also discussed in another thread as well, but as shown above, you can still use both Tech Armor and another armor power (such as Fortification) and still have good cooldowns.

I think it should also be mentioned that cooldowns may matter less to you depending on the class and powers used. Specifically, you can detonate biotics as long as the priming biotic--such as Singularity or Warp--is still active. These can have good durations such as 6 to 10 seconds or even longer, so you can get away with longer cooldowns.

Other powers, specifically tech and ammo powers, can only prime a target for 3-3.5 seconds (I forget which one), so cooldowns are a bigger issue. Cryo Blast and Cryo Ammo are exceptions in that they can prime a target for as long as the enemy is still frozen. Incineration Blast's rank 5 Burning Damage DOES NOT increase the time a target is primed. Also, Overload in multiplayer has a 5-second priming duration; no idea if this change made it to single player. The backfire of Sabotage primes for tech bursts, and the backfire occurs 1.5 seconds after you hit the enemy with Sabotage.

Basically what I am saying is that +200% is not strictly necessary for detonating combos. Especially if you are a biotic, as you have Liara and Javik to help you out most of the game for priming. Adepts and Sentinels also have Throw, one of the quickest biotic detonators.

Modificata da RedCaesar97, 02 aprile 2013 - 12:07 .

[Abraham_uk]

I put tech armor and fortification on my sentinel.
The cooldowns were still rapid.

I'm trading off very little cooldown time for substantial boost to hardening.
With this I can enjoy a more aggressive in your face gun tooting playstyle whilst still being a rapid fire biotic/tech wizard.

But this is with a cooldown bonus close to 200%.

I could try out a claymore (the king of all shotguns) and a pistol just to see whether or not I still have adequate cooldowns.

[Asch Lavigne]

I know Fortification soaks up more damage, but Defense Matrix and Barrier provide biotic or tech boosts, wouldn't that be preferable? Or is it simply because you are at close to mid-range you'd want the extra protection? Though you do have Tech Armor...

How do you play a Shotgun Sentinel? Choose the Sentinel class and equip a shotgun. Sorry, couldn't resist.

BTW, for Shep I like using the Eviscerator better than the Wraith but think the Wraith is great for squadmates.

Modificata da Asch Lavigne, 01 aprile 2013 - 10:07 .

[capn233]

Fortification has higher DR and less penalty now. And it has a generic power damage buff.

[RedCaesar97]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I know Fortification soaks up more damage, but Defense Matrix and Barrier provide biotic or tech boosts, wouldn't that be preferable? 

Defense Matrix provides a +25% damage bonus to tech powers, and Barrier provides a +25% damage bonus to non-ammo powers. Since patch 1.05, Fortification now provides a +30% damage bonus to all powers.

[brad2240]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Regarding power spamming sentinels who love their shotguns.

At what point does the cooldown bonus start to hurt (for you personally)?

Is 150% cooldown bonus still decent?
What about 100% cooldown bonus?
50%.

I find that once I reach 150% I begin to notice the cooldowns being slow.
But in range 150-200% cooldown bonus, I can even slap on fortification and still be rapid.

I try to keep it around 150%, before TA penalty. If I need to go lower than that, or I want to use a second defense power, I start slapping on Rosenkov armor pieces.

But I normally travel light, with only a single weapon, so cooldowns are not bad anyway. I find carrying a second weapon to be completely redundant with caster classes.

[Abraham_uk]

 Shall we look at every single shotgun?

M-23 Katana: Basic shotgun that you get towards the beginning of the game. Okay rate of fire. Okay damage. Okay accuracy at close range. Nothing special. However it is very light.  

M-27 Scimitar: Without DLC this is the shotgun with the fastest rate of fire. Is good against shields and health. Not so great against armor. Is good for single player campaign but not much use for higher difficulties on online game play. This is pretty light.

M-22 Eviscerator: This is a longer range shotgun. So it can handle mid-range combat without too much difficulty. Still has the large spread as other shotguns. This is fairly light.


AT-12 Raider:  Pre-Order/DLC weapon. Imagine a Claymore but with 2 shots in a barrel, a faster rate of fire and a lower damage output per shot. This weapon is very heavy and packs a mean punch. With 2 shots in a barrel it is fairly forgiving for a high damage shotgun.

Reegar Carbine: This is a DLC weapon. This is an electrical flamethrower. It is very effective against shields and due to a high rate of fire can do impressive damage with incendiary ammo active. You might want to bring James Vega to borrow his ammo. Garrus is pretty good for the armor piercing ammo and Liara is a sound choice for her warp ammo. Should you fight synthetics, this weapon already does impressive damage against synthetic foes like the Geth. Ashley Williams (if you have her) is a good choice (though not essencial) since she has disruptor ammo (which will enhance the damage against shields and synthetics).


Graal Spike Thrower: Mid to long range shotgun. Well it actually isn't a shotgun as such. It is a spike thrower. It has damage over time, a charge up mechanic and delivers incredible damage even when uncharged. It is heavy and has little reserve ammo. No need for ammo powers. This mighty weapon really is that powerful.

Geth Plasma Shotgun: Another heavy shotgun that is mid-long range, has little reserve ammo and packs a mean punch. Fires 3 shots. The Grall Spike Thrower is more effective against armor and health, but the Geth Plasma Shotgun shines against shields and barriers. Nevertheless this weapon is effective against all enemy types. Emphasis on it being heavy.


Disciple: Light shotgun with decent rate of fire. Is not all that accurate and lacks the kick of some of the more powerful shotguns. It has a pretty design (I know some people base their choice of weapons on asthetics). Weapon damage is a bit lacking though. If you want a "caster shotgun" you're better off with the Talon pistol. But some players would have missed this weapon during Citadel Coup.

M-300 Claymore: Best damage per shot. Extreme close range weapon. If an enemy is within the range of a claymore, that said enemy is within the range of a melee attack. It has impressive crowd control and is apparantly a Krogan's answer to every problem. This is a very unforgiving weapon. It has one shot per clip and has very low reserve ammo. Also it is very heavy. Thanks to balance changes the Wraith is now similiar in damage department, has a larger clip size and weighs less.

N7 Piranaha: I don't know if this is available for singleplayer. (If it is, it's part of one of the weapons packs). A short range machine gun that fits in the shotgun slot. It's very short range and as automatic weapons go, it's rate of fire is a bit slow. The damage is okay. It's weight is a bit hefty but nowhere near as heavy as the Claymore. (Probably a DLC weapon).


N7 Crusader: A highly accurate, low spread shotgun. Incredible accuracy for a shotgun. This is another "non-shotgun". It's damage output is pretty huge too. Very heavy though. (Probably a DLC weapon).


M-11 Wraith: A light shotgun that has recently been buffed. This is a Spectre requisition's weapon and it costs a fortune. Is it worth it? Well with a damage output that is slightly less than the Claymore a faster fire rate it is a very good investment. It weighs a lot less than the Claymore.


Venom: Basically multiple scorpions for the price of one. Fires multiple explosive projectiles over a wide area. Each shot is like throwing a cluster grenade. It's quite heavy, but very effective. (DLC weapon).


Non-Shotguns that can be used like shotguns:


Krishok Harpoon Gun: This is actually in the sniper rifle slot and lo and behold works well as a sniper rifle. That said this weapon has a lot in common with the Graal Spike Thrower. It fires a giant harpoon that does damage over time. It is heavy and can be effective at short range. This is very heavy but is a decent weapon once you get used to the delay, charge up and the fact it looks cumbersome. (DLC weapon)


M-358 Talon: This is a pistol that behaves like a shotgun. It out-shotguns most of the actual shotguns. It has a decent clip size and does very heavy damage (especially headshot damage). In addition you can attach a scope and still perform shotgun styl damage, spread and crowd control over longer distances. This weapon is light. So you can get your 200% cooldown bonus easily! If you have managed to find this weapon (which is very easy to miss) you need not consider any other shotgun.

Modificata da Abraham_uk, 02 aprile 2013 - 04:25 .