I was a dwarf rogue, and also had shale in my party. I'd like a logical explanation on how the sloth demon throws us both in the fade. I mean from your own lore, dwarves don't enter the fade when they sleep or die, and logically shale previously being a dwarf and now also being a living piece of rock doesn't enter the fade normally.
I understand that it was done for gameplay reasons, but really it makes no sense at all, and it seems that the explanation is "Oh, it used a spell... Well forget all that stuff about dwarves being resistant to magic, and not ever entering the fade."
Dwarves and Golems in the fade.
Débuté par
mslc123
, janv. 15 2010 12:09
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#2
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 12:11
TrueAlucard
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We also bring our items to the fade. Remember only a mage could enter the fade. That kinda broke when a warrior/rogue went in.
#3
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 12:12
.Faine
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I wondered about this too, though I'm yet to play a dwarf through the game.
#4
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 12:15
IMTrick
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This is explained somewhat in the part in Redcliffe if you run to the tower to get mage help, and Irving mentions something about how the barriers to entry to the Fade are lower if you're invited by a demon.
Presumably golems and dwarves can't enter the Fade voluntarily, but can be sucked in by someone who lives there.
Presumably golems and dwarves can't enter the Fade voluntarily, but can be sucked in by someone who lives there.
#5
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 12:17
mslc123
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Another thing I forgot to add, is how it's really cheap to not allow dwarves to use the lyrium viens while in the fade... I mean you already broke the rules of the dragonage universe by putting a dwarf and golem in the fade, why not let me use the lyrium to heal myself while there? It's not very fair in terms of gameplay.
#6
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 12:21
SDNcN
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mslc123 wrote...
Another thing I forgot to add, is how it's really cheap to not allow dwarves to use the lyrium viens while in the fade... I mean you already broke the rules of the dragonage universe by putting a dwarf and golem in the fade, why not let me use the lyrium to heal myself while there? It's not very fair in terms of gameplay.
Considering you have a 10% chance to resist hostile spells for the whole game, i think the trade off is pretty much worth it.
#7
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 12:25
Mubos
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It's not really breaking the rules to have dwarves or Shale in the Fade because even though they don't enter the Fade when sleeping thier minds can be forced into the fade by Demons. I think there is a codex entry or maybe a character who explains that but I'm not sure. Also I thought that only mages could use the lyrium viens.
#8
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 12:31
Korvayer
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According to my understanding, only a mage can consciously enter the fade. Any non-tranquil human or elf should be able to unconsciously enter the fade (i.e. be drawn into the fade while they sleep).TrueAlucard wrote...
Remember only a mage could enter the fade.
Dwarves, at least according to the lore, should never be able to enter the fade.
#9
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 12:40
SDNcN
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Korvayer wrote...
According to my understanding, only a mage can consciously enter the fade. Any non-tranquil human or elf should be able to unconsciously enter the fade (i.e. be drawn into the fade while they sleep).TrueAlucard wrote...
Remember only a mage could enter the fade.
Dwarves, at least according to the lore, should never be able to enter the fade.
Quick someone make a mod in which Oghren doesn't get trapped in the fade.
Instead he passes out drunk for the remainder of the fade segment.
#10
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 12:48
mslc123
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Humans and Elves both enter the fade when they sleep or die, their connection to the fade is what allows them to use magic, mages that are considered dangerous are made tranquil and they're disconnected from the fade and can never enter it again or be forced into it (Which is why they're safe from demonic possession, ever notice how all the tranquil in the tower where left alone and basically safe?). Dwarves where never connected to the fade, which explains why they cannot use magic at all, as the first enchanter explains when you try to get Dagna into the Circle of Magi as a understudy. So how is it possible for a dwarf to be forced into the fade, when everything points against it.
Modifié par mslc123, 15 janvier 2010 - 12:55 .
#11
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 01:15
mslc123
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Would love a dev response to this curious incident in the game.
#12
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 02:03
thegreateski
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The Dwarfs have a natural resistance to lyrium and magic.
The Fade and magic is linked with lyrium in some way.
The Sloth demon simply overcame your characters natural resistance with sheer force.
As for that Sloth demon . . . I was a bit disturbed when it turned out to be so powerful that Desire and Pride demons served him.
The Fade and magic is linked with lyrium in some way.
The Sloth demon simply overcame your characters natural resistance with sheer force.
As for that Sloth demon . . . I was a bit disturbed when it turned out to be so powerful that Desire and Pride demons served him.
Modifié par thegreateski, 15 janvier 2010 - 02:07 .
#13
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 02:21
Kosh_Naranek
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The devs HAVE said that the codex entries aren't necessarily correct, which means that it IS apparently possible for a dwarf to enter the Fade...Just very, very unusual (that Sloth demon is implied to be REALLY freaking powerful).
#15
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 02:39
Hyper Cutter
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The Sloth demon pretty much dragged you forcibly into the Fade, which I assume is very different from going there voluntarily.
Oh, and you forgot to mention the Dog, which also gets brought in.
Oh, and you forgot to mention the Dog, which also gets brought in.
#16
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 02:41
Cuuniyevo
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One quick way to review a Codex entry's veracity is to check the bottom to see who wrote it. If there is no named author or source, it can generally be considered to be either your character's personal experience or 'canon' lore from the developers.
#17
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 02:42
Balgin Stondraeg
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mslc123 wrote...
Another thing I forgot to add, is how it's really cheap to not allow dwarves to use the lyrium viens while in the fade... I mean you already broke the rules of the dragonage universe by putting a dwarf and golem in the fade, why not let me use the lyrium to heal myself while there? It's not very fair in terms of gameplay.
Actualy I didn't notice this untill my second playthrough when I wasn't playing adwarven character. Then I felt grumpy about how much easier it was (and about how it was possible to do a certain room in the Mages Asunder section without turning the difficulty down a notch).
#18
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 02:44
QuiTamGogh
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Who's up for a dwarven expedition to the Black City?
#19
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 02:46
chaosapiant
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It's not a plot hole. Read "The Calling." Demons can trap people in the fade in order to feed off of their life force. Only a mage can voluntarily enter the fade.
#20
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 02:47
Maria Caliban
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Korvayer wrote...
Dwarves, at least according to the lore, should never be able to enter the fade.
Dwarves do not enter the Fade when they sleep. Dwarves cannot 'tap' the Fade for magic. This doesn't mean they *can't* enter the Fade; it means they don't do so *naturally.*
Think of it this way:
A bird has wings and a bird can fly. All creatures that can fly naturally have wings.
A human does not have wings, is it impossible for a human to fly?
FaerieSophie wrote...
Or... is a plot hole.
No, it's people taking fan speculation as fact.
Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 janvier 2010 - 02:49 .
#21
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 02:48
Iliumdawson
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only a mage can conciously enter the fade but someone that is trapped can "awaken" (quote from the game righ there)
also Dwarves cannot enter the fade by means of lyrium or magic but being trapped by a powerful Demon does make sense, Dwarves are not completely Immune to the effects of Magic or Lyrium meaning it is entirely possible that yes they can be trapped in the fade. Dwarves can be Lyrium addled meaning they are not entirely immune.
that was the explanation I gave myself anyway.
also Dwarves cannot enter the fade by means of lyrium or magic but being trapped by a powerful Demon does make sense, Dwarves are not completely Immune to the effects of Magic or Lyrium meaning it is entirely possible that yes they can be trapped in the fade. Dwarves can be Lyrium addled meaning they are not entirely immune.
that was the explanation I gave myself anyway.
#22
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 04:34
Korvayer
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Interesting point, Maria Caliban.
I like your explanation, Iliumdawson. It's as good an explanation as any. Perhaps we'll uncover more on the mystery in coming expansions and/or sequels.
I like your explanation, Iliumdawson. It's as good an explanation as any. Perhaps we'll uncover more on the mystery in coming expansions and/or sequels.
#23
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 04:43
Elanareon
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And if dwarves where restricted from the fade we will hear a constant whine about forcing party members into certain situations. And this is not a plot element so much more whine... Although it was explained by someone from Bioware why dwarves are able to go into the fade. And shale is a _______ in a golem body.
#24
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 04:59
Sarielle
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Hyper Cutter wrote...
Oh, and you forgot to mention the Dog, which also gets brought in.
Dogs dream. I dunno why they shouldn't enter the Fade.
#25
Posté 15 janvier 2010 - 05:05
Baalzie
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Bigger mistake is the Codex entry stating mages are the ONLY ones who can NEVER get in contact with raw Lyrium, since it's LETHAL for them... Then having You bathe in Lyriumveins all throughout the game...
And also having Orghrens not so pretty Wife chucking Lyriumveins as a madwoman while NO other dwarf can use them... She stopped being a dwarf?
Caradin stating "No golem can touch the Anvil so I can't destroy it" then going ahead and uses it anyhow to forge the crown?
Lots of such stuff in the game that is totally less thought through...
Still loving the game, but honestly?Consistency please!
And also having Orghrens not so pretty Wife chucking Lyriumveins as a madwoman while NO other dwarf can use them... She stopped being a dwarf?
Caradin stating "No golem can touch the Anvil so I can't destroy it" then going ahead and uses it anyhow to forge the crown?
Lots of such stuff in the game that is totally less thought through...
Still loving the game, but honestly?Consistency please!
