41 réponses à ce sujet

[thegreateski]

Baalzie wrote...

Bigger mistake is the Codex entry stating mages are the ONLY ones who can NEVER get in contact with raw Lyrium, since it's LETHAL for them... Then having You bathe in Lyriumveins all throughout the game...
And also having Orghrens not so pretty Wife chucking Lyriumveins as a madwoman while NO other dwarf can use them... She stopped being a dwarf?
Caradin stating "No golem can touch the Anvil so I can't destroy it" then going ahead and uses it anyhow to forge the crown?
Lots of such stuff in the game that is totally less thought through...
Still loving the game, but honestly?Consistency please!

Lyrium - They can't touch the unprocessed form without dying, that doesn't stop them from soaking in the vapors however.
Branka - Dwarfs are resistant to Lyrium's effects, not immune.
Anvil - Golems only can't destroy it.

There yah go.

[mslc123]

Some good responses, but as I said before a dev response would bring clarity to this. Hopefully we'll get one soon.



Personally I think they just did it this way, so dwarves can't just kill the sloth demon outright and skip that whole scenario.

[Vicious]

David Gaider covered this a LONG time ago, forgive me if I don't go digging for his exact forum post, i might if I get bored enough. Basically it amounted to him saying that most of the codex entries are written by the Chantry, and when it comes to the Fade, the Chantry has no idea what they're talking about.

[Baalzie]

Lyrium - They can't touch the unprocessed form without dying, that doesn't stop them from soaking in the vapors however.
Branka - Dwarfs are resistant to Lyrium's effects, not immune.
Anvil - Golems only can't destroy it.

There yah go.

Lyrium- Good point, So soaking vapors is what using veins is then? *lets nail that as fact for this single post atleast for reasons to follow*

Branka- Then why can't any OTHER dwarf use it? Only Branka! And uhm since dwarves are resistant to even raw Lyrium how could using a vein as stated above "soaking in the vapors" have ANY effect and especially instant ones as any other non-dwarf gets?

Anvil- Nope he states they can't TOUCH it at all.... He's a lying sod that Caridin... He just gets a kick out of forcing others to do what he can't make himself do... Pffft...

Nah need better answers...

Modifié par Baalzie, 15 janvier 2010 - 05:42 .

[Valmy]

mslc123 wrote...

I was a dwarf rogue, and also had shale in my party. I'd like a logical explanation on how the sloth demon throws us both in the fade. I mean from your own lore, dwarves don't enter the fade when they sleep or die, and logically shale previously being a dwarf and now also being a living piece of rock doesn't enter the fade normally.

I understand that it was done for gameplay reasons, but really it makes no sense at all, and it seems that the explanation is "Oh, it used a spell... Well forget all that stuff about dwarves being resistant to magic, and not ever entering the fade."

Um...it never ever says that dwarves cannot enter the fade at all only they do not when they die or dream.  Shale even comments on it when you find her.  Demons can pull dwarves into the fade and do quit often.  It is all in the codex and discussed in the prequel novel 'The Calling'.

It never says in the lore dwarves cannot enter the fade at all.  You just sorta extrapolated that but it says specifically that is not the case.

[Valmy]

Vicious wrote...

David Gaider covered this a LONG time ago, forgive me if I don't go digging for his exact forum post, i might if I get bored enough. Basically it amounted to him saying that most of the codex entries are written by the Chantry, and when it comes to the Fade, the Chantry has no idea what they're talking about.

Um...no your character writes most of the codex entries from your own point of view that is why it is called a journal.  Unless it is a direct quote from a book or something of course.  How would the Chantry write your own journal?

[SusanStoHelit]

No, he responded by saying (David Gaider, that is) that dwarves cannot enter the Fade by any natural means. They can be forcibly taken there by magic. Such as the demon used.

Edit: Here you go:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/383900/4#385109

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 15 janvier 2010 - 06:26 .

[mslc123]

So... Dwarves cannot use magic, because of their disconnection to the fade. They don't go there when they die, and they don't go there when they dream. Also it is not the chantry that confirms those things, the dwarves themselves openly admit it and it's fact.



Also if people are going to go with the spell / magic excuse, I want spell / magic resistance to come into play. I know alot of people like that fade scenario, but I think it's pretty boring after the first run through.



I mean really this reminds me of times playing table top Dungeons and Dragons, with extremely cheap dungeon masters whom despite the rules and logic, simply make whatever they want happen.

[Sarethus]

mslc123 wrote...

So... Dwarves cannot use magic, because of their disconnection to the fade. They don't go there when they die, and they don't go there when they dream. Also it is not the chantry that confirms those things, the dwarves themselves openly admit it and it's fact.

Also if people are going to go with the spell / magic excuse, I want spell / magic resistance to come into play. I know alot of people like that fade scenario, but I think it's pretty boring after the first run through.

I mean really this reminds me of times playing table top Dungeons and Dragons, with extremely cheap dungeon masters whom despite the rules and logic, simply make whatever they want happen.

Dwarves have 10% magic resistance I think. 

Second read the book: The Calling, a similar thing happens there with a dwarf being pulled into the fade by a demon so it is very much possible. To adlib an earlier post:

Birds can fly naturally, humans cannot fly naturally. This does not mean humans can't fly. Similarly dwarves can go to the fade if chucked there by a demon.

Also you'll get your fade skip when I can go directly to the Anvil from Orzammar without doing all the deep road stuff. Except for the brood mother that place was dull...

Modifié par Sarethus, 15 janvier 2010 - 07:19 .

[Shady314]

mslc123 wrote...
simply make whatever they want happen.

You know that's the first rule in the DM books right?

[Tau22]

Baalzie wrote...

Bigger mistake is the Codex entry stating mages are the ONLY ones who can NEVER get in contact with raw Lyrium, since it's LETHAL for them... Then having You bathe in Lyriumveins all throughout the game...
And also having Orghrens not so pretty Wife chucking Lyriumveins as a madwoman while NO other dwarf can use them... She stopped being a dwarf?
Caradin stating "No golem can touch the Anvil so I can't destroy it" then going ahead and uses it anyhow to forge the crown?
Lots of such stuff in the game that is totally less thought through...
Still loving the game, but honestly?Consistency please!

Good point on the lyrium veins, except, I think not even dwarves are immune to lyrium. See the merchant in the Orzammar commons.
Also, technically, one doesn't need to touch an anvil to forge stuff on it.

[Korvayer]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

No, he responded by saying (David Gaider, that is) that dwarves cannot enter the Fade by any natural means. They can be forcibly taken there by magic. Such as the demon used.

Edit: Here you go:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/383900/4#385109

Thank you for going through the trouble to dig this out for us. 

[mslc123]

Shady314 wrote...

mslc123 wrote...
simply make whatever they want happen.

You know that's the first rule in the DM books right?

You clearly never had the same type of DM as me then.

[mslc123]

Sarethus wrote...

mslc123 wrote...

So... Dwarves cannot use magic, because of their disconnection to the fade. They don't go there when they die, and they don't go there when they dream. Also it is not the chantry that confirms those things, the dwarves themselves openly admit it and it's fact.

Also if people are going to go with the spell / magic excuse, I want spell / magic resistance to come into play. I know alot of people like that fade scenario, but I think it's pretty boring after the first run through.

I mean really this reminds me of times playing table top Dungeons and Dragons, with extremely cheap dungeon masters whom despite the rules and logic, simply make whatever they want happen.

Dwarves have 10% magic resistance I think. 

Second read the book: The Calling, a similar thing happens there with a dwarf being pulled into the fade by a demon so it is very much possible. To adlib an earlier post:

Birds can fly naturally, humans cannot fly naturally. This does not mean humans can't fly. Similarly dwarves can go to the fade if chucked there by a demon.

Also you'll get your fade skip when I can go directly to the Anvil from Orzammar without doing all the deep road stuff. Except for the brood mother that place was dull...

Yes dwarves have 10 percent magic resistance, perhaps I had knight-commander templar armor on him, along with havards aegis, the key to the city, and two master dweamor runes in his weapon... What then that's alot of magic resistance just to say "sod it, you're pulled into the fade no matter what".

Modifié par mslc123, 15 janvier 2010 - 10:15 .

[j_j_m]

mslc123 wrote...

Humans and Elves both enter the fade when they sleep or die, their connection to the fade is what allows them to use magic.

Enter the Fade when they die? Can you confirm that? I don't remember hearing it anywhere.

[DPSSOC]

A wizard did it

[Balgin Stondraeg]

chaosapiant wrote...

It's not a plot hole. Read "The Calling." Demons can trap people in the fade in order to feed off of their life force. Only a mage can voluntarily enter the fade.

That is correct. During The Calling a dwarf is forced into the Fade when an entire party are sucked in by a demon.