391 réponses à ce sujet

[Armass81]

bloodmoon0011 wrote...

I'm so tired of this "artistic integrity" argument...

Look, this wasn't utter garbage because we can't understand their "art", it's garbage because it's garbage.  The WHOLE CONCEPT for the ending feels rushed.  The writers at BioWare are, in my opinion, geniuses, since no lame writer could get me to care enough about characters and a universe this much.  That said, the star brat is, quite literally, the deus ex machina.  This game has always been about choice and consequences, and don't get me wrong:  I don't want them to REDO the ending.  If you personally want to end the saga this way, go ahead, doesn't effect me.  The bottom line is that this whole thing felt ridiculously limited compared to EVERY other part of the trilogy.  Where was the option to even send out a comm warning to Hackett and the rest of the fleet, telling them to evac all synthetic life to the dark zone for a while, safely out of the blast radius?  Where was my back up once they realized I was in?  There were TONS of ground forces around that thing even after Harbinger blasted them, and once Hackett learned I was in there he could have sent back up.  How is it exactly that the synthetic life ceases to function, but VIs and ship computers seem to still work enough for navigation?  How on earth is synthesis even actually possible?  You can't randomly give inorganic things DNA and organic things circuitry, not in one single blast of magical green space energy.  Why is MY Shepard stuck with the brat not accepting the peace I busted my ass to get between the Geth and the Quarians?  Why can't they just include a simple 2-minute "Hey, we found him!" cut scene if you do... Something?

There wasn't enough choice because there wasn't enough TIME.  I guarantee you the ending they'd already prepped before the leak had WAY more choices, simply because they had the TIME to think of them. 

tl;dr?

The ending sucked because it was rushed and COMPLETELY failed to fit with the rest of the series' key concepts, like choice and consequences, not because I "disagree with their 'artistic' message".

Did you read the november leak? It had the same endings, just worded differently. There was your choice, it was all the same.

Modifié par Armass81, 30 avril 2013 - 11:54 .

[Armass81]

Aravius wrote...

thepimpto wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

thepimpto wrote...

ME3's ending was a punchline that didn't quite work, and the EC dlc was that awkward explaining of the joke after its been told. The controversy of the ending lies within a poor delivery of the material and/or the audience's ability relate the material; not whether it is art or a commercial product.

   

it isnt an ending.  thats the thing.  a 'singular' ending would have been shepard blowing the reapers to hell.

that is hardly what we got.  what we got was mish mash nonsense trying to be 'high brow' utter garbage pap.

It insults it's audience.  it is completely and utterly out of place, and should have been binned before ever seeing the light of day.  What it does prove is that actually they didnt have a clue how to end shepards story.

I'm not a fan of the ending(s) original or extended cut myself. I was just responding to the OP that the controversy doesn't lie in whether ME3 is art or not, but with how the development team chose to express their material to its audience. Which I find to be: poorly.

Art? I thought the execution felt awkward and disjointed. Why did it effect SO MANY people in a negative way? Bioware created a masterpiece IMHO for the first 99.5% of the game. Then, not a bad ending, but an ending that had very little to do with anything we had choosing to do for the previous 120 hours. It went against the very character I had created and the choices that I made.

It wasnt a masterpiece for the 99,5 %. There were many strange things and hiccups. The Geth retcon (legion seemed to be by a wholly differetn writer, what happened to "if you use someone elses tech, it blinds you to alternatives".), The Kai Leng and Cerberus handling, the fetch quests, the opening, the n7 mission that were just mp maps... i could go on.

[xxskyshadowxx]

Jadebaby wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

You got it backwards. BioWare have damaged the case for video games as art, by selling a plagiarized piece of franchise arson with brazen dishonesty, then hiding behind the "Artistic Integrity" excuse.

This x1000!

Not any one part of that ending is even original and in some cases, just flat-out copy/pasted work!

BioWare can be as edgy and "artistic" as they want, in no way should they try and appeal to everyone as that will result in a homogenized train-wreck of a game that has no uniqueness.

I believe the problem here is that throughout the Mass Effect trilogy, writers were moved around and placed in different roles, this led to the game's overall direction changing numerous times and in the end, just not making any sense at all... So you can say that it was their "artistic vision" but who specifically? Because last time I checked, BioWare isn't a person... And while it might of been the artistic vision of that one or two artists who were responsible, that "vision" could be a totally different concept to those original artists who came before...

At the end of the day, artists have the right to express whatever "piece" they want, but when the piece just doesn't match the rest of the puzzle that's being developed, it's just sheer greed and hubris if they disregard this fact and use it because they simply thought the idea was "cool".

PS- And as for the ending needing to make "immediate sense"... It's been over a damn year and I've spent hundreds of hours on here reading through discussion after discussion on it and it STILL doesn't make any sense to me! I don't think it ever will now... But sure, it was their right as artists to make the ending nonsense. Just don't expect fans to like said nonsense. Which is what they did, and even lied about it. lol they got what they deserved tbh.

I agree with both of these posts. Heck even the Crucible was not even original, as a similar idea was used in a japanese animation from 1988.

Speculation endings can work, just look at Bioshock Infinite...but what BioWare did with ME3 was awful. They broke their own narrative, thinned it down so folks who typically don't like the genre much would buy it, ignored the basics of storytelling, then pretty much stole someone else's work.

Years may pass, but time will not change the fact that they botched two games in a row and seemed to have lost what made them great in the first place. They are depending on the fact that people just buy their games simply because their name ison it, but that can't last when the quality of your games drops below what fans are used to. Just look at Square and what they are dealing with at the moment.

[Armass81]

Eretikas wrote...

I draw the line at the fact that Bioware see themselves as artists and as artists they are entitled to write an ending that they are satisfied with.

There is a difference between pure art and the product which was intended for sale on massive scale for the profit. 3 tier weeding cakes could be seen as form of art, but nobody expects to find thin layer of excrements on the bottom because baker wanted to express his vision on life that day. I play games for entertainment. I like dark games like Dead Space too, but I have not expected for my Mass Effect paragon to be "rewarded" with **** slap in the face by my arch enemy and renegade choices at the end. It is not a very good art when you create "Star Wars" saga and then end it like "Final Destination".

I think, this video perfectly explains how ending was created. It even contains customer's reaction at the end:

ME was never "Star Wars", it was supposed to be more realistic and grimmer. If you got that impression of an invincible hero with lightsaber to save the galaxy without sacrifices, too bad.

[Pee Jae]

Another thing to take into account when comparing it to Bioshock, is that the Bioshock games aren't a trilogy. Each story has a different protagonist and each story is self contained. Mass Effect is very much a trilogy with the same characters. This ending might have worked if the story was one game, self contained, but as the end to a series, it falls flat on its face.

[Iakus]

Armass81 wrote...

ME was never "Star Wars", it was supposed to be more realistic and grimmer. If you got that impression of an invincible hero with lightsaber to save the galaxy without sacrifices, too bad.

well, except for the fact that for 2.9 games that was a valid, even encouraged way to play.

THen you learn that was a five year long trolling.

[Armass81]

iakus wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

ME was never "Star Wars", it was supposed to be more realistic and grimmer. If you got that impression of an invincible hero with lightsaber to save the galaxy without sacrifices, too bad.

well, except for the fact that for 2.9 games that was a valid, even encouraged way to play.

THen you learn that was a five year long trolling.

Yep this is why i said "supposed". For a realistic character Shepard was presented as a little too mary suish for my taste, able to overcome almost anyone. Truth is Bioware gave mixed signals, maybe fans took some of their own too. I personally expected he would die tough in the end. And I was ready for him to die. I guess some were expecting a perfect ending, for me that would have seemed too easy. I mean a slaughter cycle of a billion years, and just like that everyone lives... no... If you want everything, you end up with nothing.

Modifié par Armass81, 01 mai 2013 - 12:32 .

[txgoldrush]

Armass81 wrote...

Aravius wrote...

thepimpto wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

thepimpto wrote...

ME3's ending was a punchline that didn't quite work, and the EC dlc was that awkward explaining of the joke after its been told. The controversy of the ending lies within a poor delivery of the material and/or the audience's ability relate the material; not whether it is art or a commercial product.

   

it isnt an ending.  thats the thing.  a 'singular' ending would have been shepard blowing the reapers to hell.

that is hardly what we got.  what we got was mish mash nonsense trying to be 'high brow' utter garbage pap.

It insults it's audience.  it is completely and utterly out of place, and should have been binned before ever seeing the light of day.  What it does prove is that actually they didnt have a clue how to end shepards story.

I'm not a fan of the ending(s) original or extended cut myself. I was just responding to the OP that the controversy doesn't lie in whether ME3 is art or not, but with how the development team chose to express their material to its audience. Which I find to be: poorly.

Art? I thought the execution felt awkward and disjointed. Why did it effect SO MANY people in a negative way? Bioware created a masterpiece IMHO for the first 99.5% of the game. Then, not a bad ending, but an ending that had very little to do with anything we had choosing to do for the previous 120 hours. It went against the very character I had created and the choices that I made.

It wasnt a masterpiece for the 99,5 %. There were many strange things and hiccups. The Geth retcon (legion seemed to be by a wholly differetn writer, what happened to "if you use someone elses tech, it blinds you to alternatives".), The Kai Leng and Cerberus handling, the fetch quests, the opening, the n7 mission that were just mp maps... i could go on.

Guess what you missed....the Quarians blew up th eGeths efforts to evolve, Legion had to change course.

Guess you also didn't pay attention to Cerberus in ME1, which foreshadows what they do in mE3. They were always evil, and they were experimenting with Reaper tech from the beginning.

They are evil and they always were.

So what Kai Leng wasn't great, niether was Benezia in ME1.

[Iakus]

Armass81 wrote...

Yep this is why i said "supposed". For a realistic character Shepard was presented as a little too mary suish for my taste, able to overcome almost anyone. Truth is Bioware gave mixed signals, maybe fans took some of their own too. I personally expected he would die tough in the end. And I was ready for him to die. I guess some were expecting a perfect ending, for me that would have seemed too easy. I mean a slaughter cycle of a billion years, and just like that everyone lives... no... If you want everything, you end up with nothing.

If nothing else, I expected an ending where Shepard would be able to avoid selling his soul and life to the murdering technogod.

If you're going to let a player be a hero in the game, might as well see it through...

[txgoldrush]

t_skwerl wrote...

Another thing to take into account when comparing it to Bioshock, is that the Bioshock games aren't a trilogy. Each story has a different protagonist and each story is self contained. Mass Effect is very much a trilogy with the same characters. This ending might have worked if the story was one game, self contained, but as the end to a series, it falls flat on its face.

Wrong

The theme of sacrifice, established in ME1, became the main theme in ME3 (and ME2 Overlord and Arrival).

The ending dealt with themes portrayed throughout the series. Don't tell me the origin of the Catalyst did not connect with the themes of the series.

The fact is that the ending DOES indeed connect, its just that fans want to ignore this because it didn't end the way they wanted.

[Iakus]

Oh, look, txgoldrush is saying someone is "wrong" again.

Now it's a party...

[Armass81]

txgoldrush wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Aravius wrote...

thepimpto wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

thepimpto wrote...

ME3's ending was a punchline that didn't quite work, and the EC dlc was that awkward explaining of the joke after its been told. The controversy of the ending lies within a poor delivery of the material and/or the audience's ability relate the material; not whether it is art or a commercial product.

   

it isnt an ending.  thats the thing.  a 'singular' ending would have been shepard blowing the reapers to hell.

that is hardly what we got.  what we got was mish mash nonsense trying to be 'high brow' utter garbage pap.

It insults it's audience.  it is completely and utterly out of place, and should have been binned before ever seeing the light of day.  What it does prove is that actually they didnt have a clue how to end shepards story.

I'm not a fan of the ending(s) original or extended cut myself. I was just responding to the OP that the controversy doesn't lie in whether ME3 is art or not, but with how the development team chose to express their material to its audience. Which I find to be: poorly.

Art? I thought the execution felt awkward and disjointed. Why did it effect SO MANY people in a negative way? Bioware created a masterpiece IMHO for the first 99.5% of the game. Then, not a bad ending, but an ending that had very little to do with anything we had choosing to do for the previous 120 hours. It went against the very character I had created and the choices that I made.

It wasnt a masterpiece for the 99,5 %. There were many strange things and hiccups. The Geth retcon (legion seemed to be by a wholly differetn writer, what happened to "if you use someone elses tech, it blinds you to alternatives".), The Kai Leng and Cerberus handling, the fetch quests, the opening, the n7 mission that were just mp maps... i could go on.

Guess what you missed....the Quarians blew up th eGeths efforts to evolve, Legion had to change course.

Guess you also didn't pay attention to Cerberus in ME1, which foreshadows what they do in mE3. They were always evil, and they were experimenting with Reaper tech from the beginning.

They are evil and they always were.

So what Kai Leng wasn't great, niether was Benezia in ME1.

Its still a clear 180 for legion and the geth... I meant what would Chris L'etoile say about this. He didnt want the geth to be like that. Or for them to be like Data, more "human", the pinocchio story. Which pretty much the synthesis does to them. This inconsistency just doesnt add up.

Im not talking about Cerberuses morality, im talking about the general lazy handling of them. Little intrigue, too direct and predictable, especially the indoctrination thing. Hell even iin the Sur'kesh demo Shepard just blurted out "theyre indoctrinated, cabable of everyhting"... goddamit, Walters, do you not know hwo to weave some mystery!? You did the same thing to collectors. They could have been presented so much better.

Benezia was a little cheesy, I agree. But Benezia didnt have a character established in novels before then do a derp change.

Modifié par Armass81, 01 mai 2013 - 12:39 .

[txgoldrush]

Armass81 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Aravius wrote...

thepimpto wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

thepimpto wrote...

ME3's ending was a punchline that didn't quite work, and the EC dlc was that awkward explaining of the joke after its been told. The controversy of the ending lies within a poor delivery of the material and/or the audience's ability relate the material; not whether it is art or a commercial product.

   

it isnt an ending.  thats the thing.  a 'singular' ending would have been shepard blowing the reapers to hell.

that is hardly what we got.  what we got was mish mash nonsense trying to be 'high brow' utter garbage pap.

It insults it's audience.  it is completely and utterly out of place, and should have been binned before ever seeing the light of day.  What it does prove is that actually they didnt have a clue how to end shepards story.

I'm not a fan of the ending(s) original or extended cut myself. I was just responding to the OP that the controversy doesn't lie in whether ME3 is art or not, but with how the development team chose to express their material to its audience. Which I find to be: poorly.

Art? I thought the execution felt awkward and disjointed. Why did it effect SO MANY people in a negative way? Bioware created a masterpiece IMHO for the first 99.5% of the game. Then, not a bad ending, but an ending that had very little to do with anything we had choosing to do for the previous 120 hours. It went against the very character I had created and the choices that I made.

It wasnt a masterpiece for the 99,5 %. There were many strange things and hiccups. The Geth retcon (legion seemed to be by a wholly differetn writer, what happened to "if you use someone elses tech, it blinds you to alternatives".), The Kai Leng and Cerberus handling, the fetch quests, the opening, the n7 mission that were just mp maps... i could go on.

Guess what you missed....the Quarians blew up th eGeths efforts to evolve, Legion had to change course.

Guess you also didn't pay attention to Cerberus in ME1, which foreshadows what they do in mE3. They were always evil, and they were experimenting with Reaper tech from the beginning.

They are evil and they always were.

So what Kai Leng wasn't great, niether was Benezia in ME1.

Its still a clear 180 for legion and the geth... I meant what would Chris L'etoile say about this. He didnt want the geth to be like that. Or for them to be like Data, more "human", the pinocchio story. Which pretty much the synthesis does to them. This inconsistency just doesnt add up.

Im not talking about Cerberuses morality, im talking about the general lazy handling of them. Little intrigue, too direct and predictable, especially the indoctrination thing. Hell even iin the Sur'kesh demo Shepard just blurted out "theyre indoctrinated, cabable of everyhting"... goddamit, Walters, do you not know hwo to weave some mystery!? You did the same thing to collectors. They could have been presented so much better.

Benezia was a little cheesy, I agree. But Benezia didnt have a character established in novels before then do a derp change.

They don't need mystery...not everything does. Cerberus was always evil. And ME2 and Lair of the Shadow Broker was their traps.

There is no inconsistancy with the geth, Legion has to do what he did in ME3 for his peoples survival. He could not do what he wanted his people to do in ME2 because he can't.

Legion is also not always trustworthy. Renegade Shep can note this.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 01 mai 2013 - 12:50 .

[Armass81]

iakus wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Yep this is why i said "supposed". For a realistic character Shepard was presented as a little too mary suish for my taste, able to overcome almost anyone. Truth is Bioware gave mixed signals, maybe fans took some of their own too. I personally expected he would die tough in the end. And I was ready for him to die. I guess some were expecting a perfect ending, for me that would have seemed too easy. I mean a slaughter cycle of a billion years, and just like that everyone lives... no... If you want everything, you end up with nothing.

If nothing else, I expected an ending where Shepard would be able to avoid selling his soul and life to the murdering technogod.

If you're going to let a player be a hero in the game, might as well see it through...

Sometimes hero has to make extremely tough choices. Or would you rather have just the harvest proceed and our civilization wiped out for good? None of it was Shepards fault, he was in a corner. He had little choices. Either end the reapers with any of the 3 choices and swallow that bitter pill that came with them, or die fighting them knowing he would probably lose anyway. If you were in his position what would you do?

Modifié par Armass81, 01 mai 2013 - 12:47 .

[txgoldrush]

Shepard: "How do you get ready for something, like this?"

Liara: "You cajole and threaten and make tremendous sacrifice, until the galaxy realizes it has someone worth following"

-----

Javik: "You are now the Avatar of victory. Not just for Humans or Turians or Protheans, but for all life. Every soul that has ever lived is watching this moment. But I know you will see this through to the end for all of us, NO MATTER THE COST"

ME3's ending fits....get over it.

[Iakus]

Armass81 wrote...

Sometimes hero has to make extremely tough choices. Or would you rather have just the harvest proceed and our civilization wiped out for good? None of it was Shepards fault, he was in a corner. He had little choices. Either end the reapers with any of the 3 choices, or die fighting them knowing he would probably lose anyway.

Given that doing just that got added in as a valid option, and people take it, shows just how frakked up these endings are.

No, it's not Shepard's fault.  It's Bioware's for putting the player in that situation.

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Sometimes hero has to make extremely tough choices. Or would you rather have just the harvest proceed and our civilization wiped out for good? None of it was Shepards fault, he was in a corner. He had little choices. Either end the reapers with any of the 3 choices, or die fighting them knowing he would probably lose anyway.

Given that doing just that got added in as a valid option, and people take it, shows just how frakked up these endings are.

No, it's not Shepard's fault.  It's Bioware's for putting the player in that situation.

and thats the theme of the narrative an dthe point...tough choices and sacrifice.

[Pee Jae]

txgoldrush wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Another thing to take into account when comparing it to Bioshock, is that the Bioshock games aren't a trilogy. Each story has a different protagonist and each story is self contained. Mass Effect is very much a trilogy with the same characters. This ending might have worked if the story was one game, self contained, but as the end to a series, it falls flat on its face.

Wrong

The theme of sacrifice, established in ME1, became the main theme in ME3 (and ME2 Overlord and Arrival).

The ending dealt with themes portrayed throughout the series. Don't tell me the origin of the Catalyst did not connect with the themes of the series.

The fact is that the ending DOES indeed connect, its just that fans want to ignore this because it didn't end the way they wanted.

Your banner makes me disinclined to want to even attempt to refute this. The Catalyst is a huge deus ex machina thrown into the end of ME. You can tell me he's foreshadowed, and I may even agree with that to some extent, but I've already headcanoned that the little ******* never existed to begin with. If Harbinger can speak to Shep across billions of miles of space, then the "King" of the Reapers can certainly make Shep hallucinate a child being killed to gain sympathy if the two should ever meet. Which they did. But, that's an argument for another thread. Suffice it to say, there is a huge disconnect at the end of the game and most players will tell you, it's when they see the magic space elevator.

[Armass81]

iakus wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Sometimes hero has to make extremely tough choices. Or would you rather have just the harvest proceed and our civilization wiped out for good? None of it was Shepards fault, he was in a corner. He had little choices. Either end the reapers with any of the 3 choices, or die fighting them knowing he would probably lose anyway.

Given that doing just that got added in as a valid option, and people take it, shows just how frakked up these endings are.

No, it's not Shepard's fault.  It's Bioware's for putting the player in that situation.

So in the end you complain cause you didnt get the perfect ending of everyone surviving. The yab yab, with ewoks singing?

I dont condone with the way they executed the endings, the starchild is an unneccesary add. But I can understand what they tried to get across with them, even if it was flawed.

Modifié par Armass81, 01 mai 2013 - 01:06 .

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

Shepard: "How do you get ready for something, like this?"

Liara: "You cajole and threaten and make tremendous sacrifice, until the galaxy realizes it has someone worth following"

-----

Javik: "You are now the Avatar of victory. Not just for Humans or Turians or Protheans, but for all life. Every soul that has ever lived is watching this moment. But I know you will see this through to the end for all of us, NO MATTER THE COST"

ME3's ending fits....get over it.

Bakara:  Remember, in the darkest hour there's always a way out

Shepard: "Then let's get it done, and go home"

Shepard again:  "There's always hope.  It's what's gotten us this far"

Garrus: I think you're going to kick the Reapers back into whatever black hole they crawled out of.  Then we're going to retire somewhere warm and tropical and get rich off the royalties from the vids

Ashley: "You'll find a way to beat the odds.  And when you do, hero-man, I'll be waiting.

ME3's ending fits certain playthroughs.  And screws others.  Dal with it

[txgoldrush]

t_skwerl wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Another thing to take into account when comparing it to Bioshock, is that the Bioshock games aren't a trilogy. Each story has a different protagonist and each story is self contained. Mass Effect is very much a trilogy with the same characters. This ending might have worked if the story was one game, self contained, but as the end to a series, it falls flat on its face.

Wrong

The theme of sacrifice, established in ME1, became the main theme in ME3 (and ME2 Overlord and Arrival).

The ending dealt with themes portrayed throughout the series. Don't tell me the origin of the Catalyst did not connect with the themes of the series.

The fact is that the ending DOES indeed connect, its just that fans want to ignore this because it didn't end the way they wanted.

Your banner makes me disinclined to want to even attempt to refute this. The Catalyst is a huge deus ex machina thrown into the end of ME. You can tell me he's foreshadowed, and I may even agree with that to some extent, but I've already headcanoned that the little ******* never existed to begin with. If Harbinger can speak to Shep across billions of miles of space, then the "King" of the Reapers can certainly make Shep hallucinate a child being killed to gain sympathy if the two should ever meet. Which they did. But, that's an argument for another thread. Suffice it to say, there is a huge disconnect at the end of the game and most players will tell you, it's when they see the magic space elevator.

Harbinger is part of the Catalyst...the Catalyst is the consensus of EVERY Reaper. Or did you miss this.

There is no deus ex machina, and if there even was, it would be IN REVERSE, meaning Shepard came "out of nowhere" to solve the Catalyst's unsolvable problem.

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Shepard: "How do you get ready for something, like this?"

Liara: "You cajole and threaten and make tremendous sacrifice, until the galaxy realizes it has someone worth following"

-----

Javik: "You are now the Avatar of victory. Not just for Humans or Turians or Protheans, but for all life. Every soul that has ever lived is watching this moment. But I know you will see this through to the end for all of us, NO MATTER THE COST"

ME3's ending fits....get over it.

Bakara:  Remember, in the darkest hour there's always a way out

Shepard: "Then let's get it done, and go home"

Shepard again:  "There's always hope.  It's what's gotten us this far"

Garrus: I think you're going to kick the Reapers back into whatever black hole they crawled out of.  Then we're going to retire somewhere warm and tropical and get rich off the royalties from the vids

Ashley: "You'll find a way to beat the odds.  And when you do, hero-man, I'll be waiting.

ME3's ending fits certain playthroughs.  And screws others.  Dal with it

And notice how Garrus has one of the most bitter goodbyes, he can say anything he wants in the end, but his emotions tell a different story.

And Shepard did beat the odds, he ended the cycle after a billion years...what are the odds?

[Iakus]

Armass81 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Sometimes hero has to make extremely tough choices. Or would you rather have just the harvest proceed and our civilization wiped out for good? None of it was Shepards fault, he was in a corner. He had little choices. Either end the reapers with any of the 3 choices, or die fighting them knowing he would probably lose anyway.

Given that doing just that got added in as a valid option, and people take it, shows just how frakked up these endings are.

No, it's not Shepard's fault.  It's Bioware's for putting the player in that situation.

So in the end you complain cause you didnt get the perfect ending of everyone surviving. The yab yab, with ewoks singing?

Funny.  Never heard that one before /sarcasm

No, I'm complaining that I didn't get an ending that didn't require Shepard to murder his allies, or enslave the galaxy to the Reapers, or forcibly uplift the entire galaxy.

I'm complaining that I didn't get an ending where the price wasn't so high that letting the Reapers win starts to look like a valid alternative

In short, I'm not complaining that I didn't get a perfect ending, I'm complaining that I didn't get a good ending at all.

[Pee Jae]

txgoldrush wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Another thing to take into account when comparing it to Bioshock, is that the Bioshock games aren't a trilogy. Each story has a different protagonist and each story is self contained. Mass Effect is very much a trilogy with the same characters. This ending might have worked if the story was one game, self contained, but as the end to a series, it falls flat on its face.

Wrong

The theme of sacrifice, established in ME1, became the main theme in ME3 (and ME2 Overlord and Arrival).

The ending dealt with themes portrayed throughout the series. Don't tell me the origin of the Catalyst did not connect with the themes of the series.

The fact is that the ending DOES indeed connect, its just that fans want to ignore this because it didn't end the way they wanted.

Your banner makes me disinclined to want to even attempt to refute this. The Catalyst is a huge deus ex machina thrown into the end of ME. You can tell me he's foreshadowed, and I may even agree with that to some extent, but I've already headcanoned that the little ******* never existed to begin with. If Harbinger can speak to Shep across billions of miles of space, then the "King" of the Reapers can certainly make Shep hallucinate a child being killed to gain sympathy if the two should ever meet. Which they did. But, that's an argument for another thread. Suffice it to say, there is a huge disconnect at the end of the game and most players will tell you, it's when they see the magic space elevator.

Harbinger is part of the Catalyst...the Catalyst is the consensus of EVERY Reaper. Or did you miss this.

There is no deus ex machina, and if there even was, it would be IN REVERSE, meaning Shepard came "out of nowhere" to solve the Catalyst's unsolvable problem.

No, I didn't miss anything. It basically means the same thing; the Catalyst has the power to make Shep hallucinate the kid dying.

Actually, the deus ex machina is the Crucible. My bad.

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

And notice how Garrus has one of the most bitter goodbyes, he can say anything he wants in the end, but his emotions tell a different story.

And Shepard did beat the odds, he ended the cycle after a billion years...what are the odds?

Garrus is pessimistic by nature.  But still hopeful that they'll win.

And what are the odds?  Going by the Catalyst's monkeys-at typewriters logic, it had to happen sooner or later.  Why not now/