391 réponses à ce sujet

[Femlob]

My opinion on the whole mess hasn't changed; it's not the disappointment with the actual game so much as BioWare's condescending treatment of those who were (are) disappointed that pissed me off to the point of placing the entire company squarely at the top of my shit-list.

[StoneSwords]

EliseoRocha wrote...

I'm not sure anybody really expected him to live, okay maybe some did but I didn't. I expected an actual final fight to the death. Similar to the lines of the final push, still fighting even while critically injured unt the end and perhaps die and my LI finishing the fight for me. Not whatever the mess was that we got... I still don't understand how the Geth/Quarian peace meant nothing in the end after all of that intense fighting and careful decision making, I was personally shocked for awhile after I did that and had no idea how I was so lucky to do it.

I think I expected there to at least be the option of beating the odds and surviving, provided you met certain conditions(which there is, but not in a satisfying way IMO).  But then again, I also expected the ending to not be so disappointing either.  I expected at least some of my choices throughout the series to make a difference there in the end.  The Geth/Quarian peace being just one example as EliseoRocha pointed out

[Iakus]

EliseoRocha wrote...

I'm not sure anybody really expected him to live, okay maybe some did but I didn't. I expected an actual final fight to the death. Similar to the lines of the final push, still fighting even while critically injured unt the end and perhaps die and my LI finishing the fight for me. Not whatever the mess was that we got... I still don't understand how the Geth/Quarian peace meant nothing in the end after all of that intense fighting and careful decision making, I was personally shocked for awhile after I did that and had no idea how I was so lucky to do it.

I expected there to be outcomes where Shepard would die.

I also expected outcomes where Shepard would live.

In short, I expected multiple outcomes based on the choices I made.

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

EliseoRocha wrote...

I'm not sure anybody really expected him to live, okay maybe some did but I didn't. I expected an actual final fight to the death. Similar to the lines of the final push, still fighting even while critically injured unt the end and perhaps die and my LI finishing the fight for me. Not whatever the mess was that we got... I still don't understand how the Geth/Quarian peace meant nothing in the end after all of that intense fighting and careful decision making, I was personally shocked for awhile after I did that and had no idea how I was so lucky to do it.

I expected there to be outcomes where Shepard would die.

I also expected outcomes where Shepard would live.

In short, I expected multiple outcomes based on the choices I made.

and you got them

[Reorte]

EliseoRocha wrote...

I'm not sure anybody really expected him to live, okay maybe some did but I didn't. I expected an actual final fight to the death. Similar to the lines of the final push, still fighting even while critically injured unt the end and perhaps die and my LI finishing the fight for me. Not whatever the mess was that we got... I still don't understand how the Geth/Quarian peace meant nothing in the end after all of that intense fighting and careful decision making, I was personally shocked for awhile after I did that and had no idea how I was so lucky to do it.

Sure I did. Partially because Mass Effect was mostly the good old fashioned straightforward traditional hero type story, and partially because dying to save the day is never something I'm remotely convinced by for large-scale actions (as well as being an annoying messiah parallel, which just sounds arrogant - and I'm not even religious). Sustaining enough injuries to die after doing whatever needs doing (or the Normandy getting blown up on the way out) is always a possibility so I expected that that would be an option but in that scenario there's always the possibility of doing things better / being luckier and avoiding injury.

Mind you I also expected something a bit more impressive than a magic Reaper Defeating machine suddenly turning up out of the blue.

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

EliseoRocha wrote...

I'm not sure anybody really expected him to live, okay maybe some did but I didn't. I expected an actual final fight to the death. Similar to the lines of the final push, still fighting even while critically injured unt the end and perhaps die and my LI finishing the fight for me. Not whatever the mess was that we got... I still don't understand how the Geth/Quarian peace meant nothing in the end after all of that intense fighting and careful decision making, I was personally shocked for awhile after I did that and had no idea how I was so lucky to do it.

I expected there to be outcomes where Shepard would die.

I also expected outcomes where Shepard would live.

In short, I expected multiple outcomes based on the choices I made.

and you got them

What's that word you use a lot?

Oh, yeah

Wrong!

I got seven endings where Shepard died horribly, and one, one deliberately ambiguous breath scene to "balance" them out.

[Aravius]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

EliseoRocha wrote...

I'm not sure anybody really expected him to live, okay maybe some did but I didn't. I expected an actual final fight to the death. Similar to the lines of the final push, still fighting even while critically injured unt the end and perhaps die and my LI finishing the fight for me. Not whatever the mess was that we got... I still don't understand how the Geth/Quarian peace meant nothing in the end after all of that intense fighting and careful decision making, I was personally shocked for awhile after I did that and had no idea how I was so lucky to do it.

I expected there to be outcomes where Shepard would die.

I also expected outcomes where Shepard would live.

In short, I expected multiple outcomes based on the choices I made.

and you got them

What's that word you use a lot?

Oh, yeah

Wrong!

I got seven endings where Shepard died horribly, and one, one deliberately ambiguous breath scene to "balance" them out.

You're right.....wrong. 

Endings that finish logically that in the end... completely let you down. I couldn't even game for 8 weeks after the shock of the starchild. I don't CARE if it made sense on the most basic sacrifice level...It didn't work for me. And again, I never expected Shepard to live. 

[SpamBot2000]

Expected Shepard to live? Don't know that I did, as I got to play ME3 about 3 months after release, and while keeping away from spoilers, the Mass Dissatisfaction was reported in mainstream news. But after nearly a year of thinking about it, I do now find it pretty crass that BioWare didn't know how to end the story without, as Wilfred Owen would have it, telling "with such high zest / To children ardent for some desperate glory / The old Lie: Dulce et Decorum est / Pro patria mori."

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 02 mai 2013 - 05:27 .

[EliseoRocha]

I'm still scratching my head about the breathe scene... Like... Is he back on Earth? And if so how the heck did he get back there?! Why don't we see more?!

[Iakus]

EliseoRocha wrote...

I'm still scratching my head about the breathe scene... Like... Is he back on Earth? And if so how the heck did he get back there?! Why don't we see more?!

Dead Shepards get closure
Live Shepards get "implications"

[bloodmoon0011]

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

EliseoRocha wrote...

I'm not sure anybody really expected him to live, okay maybe some did but I didn't. I expected an actual final fight to the death. Similar to the lines of the final push, still fighting even while critically injured unt the end and perhaps die and my LI finishing the fight for me. Not whatever the mess was that we got... I still don't understand how the Geth/Quarian peace meant nothing in the end after all of that intense fighting and careful decision making, I was personally shocked for awhile after I did that and had no idea how I was so lucky to do it.

I expected there to be outcomes where Shepard would die.

I also expected outcomes where Shepard would live.

In short, I expected multiple outcomes based on the choices I made.

and you got them

Are you freakin' high?  Multiple outcomes?  Yes.  ALL of which are based on your level of EMS, effectively a "when's a good time to beat the game" meter.  Did they have any real bearings on what you did up to that point.  HELL no.  Seriously, nothing you did up to that point mattered in the game.  That was actually what got me to stop playing the series for a while.  It seemed like, thanks to that ending, nothing I did and no choice that I made mattered even a little toward resolving the plot, which is a SERIOUS flaw.  I honestly didn't expect Shep to live either toward the end, but in a bad way.  What I mean is, depending on how you played it, Shep should/shouldn't live.  The very fact that there are certain endings you get period is the reason why most people were pissed.  It didn't live up to the standards of the series thus far.  Also, a weak-ass deus ex machina (literally) ending is NOT what this epic series deserved.

[AlanC9]

Well, except for Rannoch. And Tuchanka. And various minor characters who live or die depending on Shepard's action

By this standard, nothing you did in ME1 mattered either. Or ME2.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 mai 2013 - 04:01 .

[AlexMBrennan]

By this standard, nothing you did in ME1 mattered either. Or ME2.

ME3's ending is like Shepard confronting Saren, losing the battle and Sovereign randomly deciding to kill itself by plotting a course into the nearest star because the plan it been working on for millennia was a bad idea.

[AlanC9]

Non sequitur much, Alex? I thought it was obvious that I was replying to bloodmoon0011's position, and your post, while cute, doesn't have anything to do with the point.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 mai 2013 - 07:33 .

[SpamBot2000]

AlanC9 wrote...

By this standard, nothing you did in ME1 mattered either. Or ME2.

Yep, that's why it sucks so bad. 

[AlanC9]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

By this standard, nothing you did in ME1 mattered either. Or ME2.

Yep, that's why it sucks so bad. 

His standard sucks? Or the standard's the right one and all three games suck?

[PinkysPain]

MrDavid wrote...

I write a weekly gaming blog

See, there's your problem ... writers by and large stick with writers, this has been true since the start of this mess.

I'd rather hear from editors, they are generally the voice of reason ... but of course they will wisely not speak up, stroking writer ego is what they do to get the job done (even if they  weren't allowed to do it for ME3).

Modifié par PinkysPain, 09 mai 2013 - 11:48 .

[Creature0fHabit]

If my decisions mean something in the end...that's all I wanted.

[fainmaca]

I'd be more inclined to give the 'its art' reasoning a pass if this had been a standalone game rather than the conclusion to a franchise.

When you make a series, I think it crosses the boundary between art and a consumer product, especially with the kind of investment that a gamer must make in a series. Prior installments have set expectations that the content creator should meet to the best of their ability, otherwise players feel cheated.

As it stands, it feels like Bioware took a lot of money from me and hundreds of hours of time to make an artistic statement I didn't want to make. I'd have much rather bought a single game, seen the artistic statement, and been on my way, rather than waiting years to get something I ended up regretting. I'm left feeling foolish, and the less than courteous reactions from the company and the journalistic community when I and people like me voiced our dissatisfaction have definately jaded me against Bioware.

In my opinion, expecting an ongoing franchise with an already established flavour to take an unexpected turn towards the artistically abstract at the end is more damaging to the cause of getting games to be respected as art. either create a single game that has an artistic theme/ending to it, or create a franchise based on said artistic themes and make it clear from the start that it is intended to be artistic like that. Don't take one thing and force it to transform into something else in such a pretentious fashion.

[thefallen2far]

All right.... it's art. I'll critique it as art.

It was crap. I wasn't brave or intelligent or well thought out. It was dumbed down trite garbage that I feel was the result of a really bad idea and tried to justify the laziness with "advanced science is like magic, so I can use magic".

If I went to CSO and they had a guest high school student from perform a piece he wrote instead of the concerto I was expecting, I have the right to judge the high schooler's piece as.... well.... a high schooler's piece and ask for a refund. If I buy a mass effect game and its ending was writen like a high schooler's fictionn writing drivel, I have the right to ask for a refund.

[SpamBot2000]

AlanC9 wrote...

His standard sucks? Or the standard's the right one and all three games suck?

Er, to be honest I didn't really pay much attention to this argument. I thought it was about nothing in ME mattering because stupid end invalidates everything. But maybe that's not what it was, dunno.

Happens sometimes with these newfangled technologies. You juggle all these "windows" and lose track of what's happening in some of them. 

[V-rcingetorix]

@MrDavid,

Interesting article, it made me think a little.

Yes, I too believe that video games are an art form. Anyone whom has seen games evolve from the Atari to the stories now told via interaction can see that.

I actually enjoyed the game Mass Effect 3. I loved it; except for the last 10 minutes. For me, the ending was artistic; but not something I would have pre-ordered. You see, like a book trilogy, the first two games from the Mass Effect universe ended with a generally upbeat ending, but left the potential for a grim and negative ending wide open. ME3 did not permit that.

Yes, wrapping up all possible loose ends is hard, but then again that's why the big-game designers are paid big bucks. Put another way, I would pay a lot of money for a Monet, but not if I unwrapped it to find a big plastic ducky glued to the middle.

Bioware/EA has full rights to its artistic integrity I admit. But I doubt their numbers of "less than 50% were satisfied" by the ending. I made some BSN polls if you want to check my profile, and my polls indicate otherwise (yes I am aware of non-randomly distributed populations; I don't have resources for another poll source).

Everything until the last 10 minutes was artistic, poignant and well made. The graphics were beautiful, the voice actors phenomenal and the combat thrilling. Easily one of, if not the best game I have ever played.

Maybe it's not immature to believe that the ending was bad. There was a saying: "If someone calls you a crook, laugh it off. If someone else calls you a crook, begin to wonder. If a third person calls you a crook, buy a mask and get a crowbar."

[chemiclord]

V-rcingetorix wrote...

@MrDavid,

Interesting article, it made me think a little.

Yes, I too believe that video games are an art form. Anyone whom has seen games evolve from the Atari to the stories now told via interaction can see that.

I actually enjoyed the game Mass Effect 3. I loved it; except for the last 10 minutes. For me, the ending was artistic; but not something I would have pre-ordered. You see, like a book trilogy, the first two games from the Mass Effect universe ended with a generally upbeat ending, but left the potential for a grim and negative ending wide open. ME3 did not permit that.

Yes, wrapping up all possible loose ends is hard, but then again that's why the big-game designers are paid big bucks. Put another way, I would pay a lot of money for a Monet, but not if I unwrapped it to find a big plastic ducky glued to the middle.

Bioware/EA has full rights to its artistic integrity I admit. But I doubt their numbers of "less than 50% were satisfied" by the ending. I made some BSN polls if you want to check my profile, and my polls indicate otherwise (yes I am aware of non-randomly distributed populations; I don't have resources for another poll source).

Everything until the last 10 minutes was artistic, poignant and well made. The graphics were beautiful, the voice actors phenomenal and the combat thrilling. Easily one of, if not the best game I have ever played.

Maybe it's not immature to believe that the ending was bad. There was a saying: "If someone calls you a crook, laugh it off. If someone else calls you a crook, begin to wonder. If a third person calls you a crook, buy a mask and get a crowbar."

What it really boils down to is... yeah, it was a pretty ****ty ending.  At the very best, it wasn't good.

But that's all it really is.  It stunk.  It wasn't produced with malice or ill intent towards the fans.  It wasn't a slap to the face or a gut punch or a low blow or an insult.  It was a bad ending, and is bad completely on its own merits without the need to add malicious intent.

[Oni Changas]

I expected Shepard to go out like a guddamn hero. Like Buccaneer in FMA: B or Opie from SoA. Like a f'n WARRIOR. Instead its as a quitting biatch or a conforming loser. At best a clueless moron... >_>

Just sayin'.

[NeonFlux117]

OniTYME wrote...

I expected Shepard to go out like a guddamn hero. Like Buccaneer in FMA: B or Opie from SoA. Like a f'n WARRIOR. Instead its as a quitting biatch or a conforming loser. At best a clueless moron... >_>

Just sayin'.

Haha, me too. 

But at least we got "artistic integrity" and that is the gift that keeps giving!!!