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[Danny Boy 7]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

This is all incredibly unrelated to DA3, I must say...

Nope. You really can't, as we don't actually know what will or won't be involved in DAIII. The comics are the closest thing to new DA information that we have, and as they don't have their own discussion forum, that means it belongs here.

But thanks for reading, even if you didn't have anything constructive to say.


@ Batarang, I can't help you. I'd try private messenging someone who looks like they have a custom avatar pic.

It might not hurt to actually try and tie your post in with DA3 in some way. Otherwise just post it on the DA:O forum or in the Off-Topic section. Lately there are two things that annoy me a lot on BSN. Off-topic stuff in DA3 forum and the same topics coming up again and again on an almost daily basis (e.g. "Which generation of consoles will Inquisition be for?").

Isn't the comics inherently a DA3 discussion considering they'll potentially have an effect on the game? I think that's the whole point of bringing up the Calling/Alistair since he could potentially become a new kind of big bad.

[Dave of Canada]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Any thoughts on an alternative in case Alistair is dead in someone's game?

I'd rather he stays dead, to be honest. I had him executed to solidify King Cousland and Queen Anora's grasp of the throne, having him return and cause a potential world-changing event would be a bit too much for me.

HOWEVER, Dead Alistair also means the events of The Silent Grove / Those Who Speak / Until We Sleep never happened, causing potential dead characters with world-changing roles to still be alive and other characters to remain captured.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 29 mars 2013 - 03:23 .

[Boost32]

gw2005 wrote...

Twisted Path wrote...

He's dead (in some people's playthroughs,) so uh...

Boost32 wrote...

alistair is dead in my games, dont want that ridiculosu baboon back EVER

If he's important enough, death of a character is no more than a tiny obstacle for the writers to overcome.

NO NO NO NO and NO!!!
leave him buried in my game, dont wnat my choice ignores because the writers want to use him, why not use someone else?

[ShaggyWolf]

Having Alistair turn into some kind of ultra-demon and bring terror and chaos to the world would be devastating to a lot of his fans. Sounds like exactly the kind of thing David Gaider would do with the character XD

Joking aside, this is an intriguing topic of discussion, especially to me since my Warden is a Reaver.

[MaxfireXSA]

One little question. Why Alistair will became the next archdemon or other bad creatures that he is? I understand Alistair has the blood of the dragon and a darkspawn taint. But if Alistair killed one of the witch of the wilds who is Morrigan's sister(which is Yavana), then that's because he had enough of the witch of the wilds, that doesn't make him evil either or became the corrupted king who became a tyrant and start treating the people of Ferelden or became the next archdemon (which turns people of Ferelden into Darkspawns), or became a ghoul like or other weird creatures.

So, why? Why Alistair will became the next antagonist of Dragon Age 3 by becoming the next archdemon or he will become some bad creatures that will cause civil war? Because my opinion is he'll still be the king or in the DA3 Alistair will still be a king and he married to his new wife that she became the next queen of Ferelden and decide to have children, who will became princes or princesses.

[Danny Boy 7]

MaxfireXSA wrote...

One little question. Why Alistair will became the next archdemon or other bad creatures that he is? I understand Alistair has the blood of the dragon and a darkspawn taint. But if Alistair killed one of the witch of the wilds who is Morrigan's sister(which is Yavana), then that's because he had enough of the witch of the wilds, that doesn't make him evil either or became the corrupted king who became a tyrant and start treating the people of Ferelden or became the next archdemon (which turns people of Ferelden into Darkspawns), or became a ghoul like or other weird creatures.

So, why? Why Alistair will became the next antagonist of Dragon Age 3 by becoming the next archdemon or he will become some bad creatures that will cause civil war? Because my opinion is he'll still be the king or in the DA3 Alistair will still be a king and he married to his new wife that she became the next queen of Ferelden and decide to have children, who will became princes or princesses.

I think from what the OP is talking about is that with the blood of dragon, it could have pontentially world-shaking possibilities if the taint effects him. He could become a new "big bad" not necessarily because he's bad or turning more ruthless etc, but because he had dragon blood as opposed to people who drink it.

[Kulyok]

The thing is, if Alistair died killing the Archdemon, I'm not sure how it's possible to avoid/retcon it or to implement a replacement for those players who don't have Alistair in their games.

If Alistair was executed, sure - let's say he's escaped. If Alistair died and was buried with other Grey Wardens as a great hero? I don't think so.

Besides, I might be wrong about that, but I had a feeling that "This character has blood of dragons!" mostly means "Great, let's fight him, he'll turn into a dragon and provide us with awesome loot!", not "Wonderful, let's make him an antagonist/valuable character of the next game so he'll totally overshadow our PC and everyone will hate him".

[Reznore57]

I don't think Alistair will become more "special".
At best , I think his dragon blood will cancel his calling , he will probably live longer than your average grey warden.

The way I see it , the dragon blood only makes people stronger ,but not that special.
What I really think it's the blood is special , way more interesting for blood magic .
And it can wake dragon like the taint does , except I guess it doesn't corrupt them.
I think Flemeth/the witches of the wild made a trade , they allowed some people to drank from dragons , and later they can sacrifice the new generation to awake their pets.
I think it was just a way to secure the power that dragon blood hold ...

And that just makes Alistair a sacrificial lamb.

[azarhal]

I've been reading this thread and I have the impression everyone here forgot that the Joining require Grey Warden to drunk a mixture composed of darkspawn's blood, lyrium and a drop of Archdemon's blood (aka tainted vintage Old God dragon's blood).

Alistair having "dragon's blood" because is great-x10-grandfather drank some seems a bit meaningless compared to the stuff he drank at his Joining to me.

[leighzard]

brushyourteeth wrote...

In the comics, the dragon-blood information comes from Sten/the new Arishok, who says that Calenhad struck a deal with a powerful witch who taught him to drink the blood of a powerful high dragon, which changed him.

Who was totally Flemeth, right? I mean, she seems to have some sort of connection to the Theirins having struck up a secret deal with Maric in The Stolen Throne and rescuing the Warden and Alistair from Ostagar.

brushyourteeth wrote...

He's not going to be magically cured of the taint -- that happened to a character in the books and I don't see Mr. Gaider repeating it (though, what do I know, really?).

Already happened to a character who might possibly be Alistair's mom. I know there's some debate about this, but I still believe Alistair was the baby in The Calling. Maybe she passed on some kind of immunity. (This reminds me, I'd really like to revisit the Architect's story in DA3.) Plus there's Avernus. He figured out a way to circumvent the taint, as well. So there's more than one way to prevent the transformation.

Naturally it seems that death, destruction, and crying masses of fans is the more likely way to take this story line, but I suppose it's possible that dragon blood + darkspawn taint /= something bad.

As for how a plot could work in game if Alistair isn't alive, a Wreav like substitution would probably be the best bet, since it's implied that Maric wasn't the most faithful guy around. Although I know characters have been resurrected before, that's not really a popular move around here.

[brushyourteeth]

Okay, there are way too many good thoughts on here for me to comment on them individually. *sigh*

I'm not sure I ever registered Archdemon blood being used in the Ritual, but even if it is, there's obviously something special about the Theirin bloodline (even compared to normal reavers) or else Flemeth and Titus Aurelian would have happily manipulated some of them instead of Maric and Alistair, who were probably much harder to hunt down and will prove to be a handful to control.

Essentially, if there was no distinction, David Gaider wouldn't have made a distinction.

I'm definitely not promoting Alistair becoming some sort of exalted god-like hero. I'm saying that the taint eventually changes every GW for the worse, and Alistair's blood has an unknown variable. So all I'm doing here is asking the question, "in light of the fact that the taint = bad, and dragons = powerful, what does that mean?"

@ Allan, I've been thinking about it and I suppose one decent way to implement something like this (though I'd hardly expect the developers to use an idea like this from a humble BSN forumite) would be if Alistair was known to have hunted (ideally in the deep roads) a very important monster. Say, an awakened saarebas ogre or something.

1.) If Alistair dies killing the archdemon, Scary Monster A. is still alive and needs killing.

2.) If Alistair didn't kill the Archdemon, our protagonist encounters Scary Monster B. (who is all that's left of Alistair) and has to put him out of his misery. Maybe with a note that kind of says "I killed the monster but now I'm becoming one. The darkness is swallowing me, but the music is so beautiful. Tell Goldanna I'm sorry. - King Alistair Theirin" (but better than that, obvioiusly)

It'll sound like I'm championing this idea, and I'm really not -- just asking questions because the dragon blood situation has pretty crazy implications. But DA fans who hate Alistair should be happy about the idea of getting to kill him. DA fans who love Alistair (like myself) should understand that the taint turns all Wardens into monsters eventually.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 29 mars 2013 - 02:54 .

[Dave of Canada]

I'd love to fight Alistair's mutated head on a pike instead of a no-name monster, though.

Serious answer: As much as I'd like to see large-scale choices and consequences, I wouldn't enjoy having to fight another monster if Alistair is dead. I disliked it heavily in ME3 where every choice was basically just a re-named enemy or meet a re-named character who serves the exact same purpose.

For example, the Rachni Queen.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 29 mars 2013 - 03:06 .

[brushyourteeth]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd love the idea of fighting Alistair's mutated head on a pike instead of a no-name monster, though.

Yeah. I think Bioware fans tend to have this idea that if they make choice A. and they get consequence A. instead of consequence B., that they're somehow being "punished."

When really, life has unexpected consequences. What do they expect the developers to do about it?

[Reznore57]

But I think what azarhal noticed is important...
Archdemons are huge dragons ,and they are tainted.
So dragons ain't immune to the taint ...

The fact that Alistair blood can wake up dragons who are asleep for centuries , is special enough no?

And if Flemeth and co wanted to track down the blood from generations ...I 'd guess royalty make that easy.
Royal people are pushed to have heirs , and their heirs are well known.

The way I see it , after the Imperium fell...dragons were being hunted to extinction.
Flemeth , for whatever reason , doesn't like it ...so she lured some human to drank dragon blood , knowing it will come handy later.
Just like she pushed Morrigan to save an old god in a foetus.

I really don't think it makes those human uber special...their blood is valuable to Flemeth and that Tevinter guy.But that's it.

I like Alistair ...and I really don't want him to become "I'm a very super special snowflakes."
The idea of the OGB being "special" makes my skin crawl already.

[brushyourteeth]

Serious answer: As much as I'd like to see large-scale choices and consequences, I wouldn't enjoy having to fight another monster if Alistair is dead. I disliked it heavily in ME3 where every choice was basically just a re-named enemy or meet a re-named character who serves the exact same purpose.

I think in this instance it would actually make sense, though. Alistair was supposed to kill this monster but didn't because he died first. If he lived, he killed the monster but then became one.

If I die before lunch you could theoretically eat my lunch. But if I live till tomorrow I can eat my lunch and make a new lunch.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 29 mars 2013 - 03:10 .

[brushyourteeth]

Reznore57 wrote...

But I think what azarhal noticed is important...
Archdemons are huge dragons ,and they are tainted.
So dragons ain't immune to the taint ...

The fact that Alistair blood can wake up dragons who are asleep for centuries , is special enough no?

And if Flemeth and co wanted to track down the blood from generations ...I 'd guess royalty make that easy.
Royal people are pushed to have heirs , and their heirs are well known.

The way I see it , after the Imperium fell...dragons were being hunted to extinction.
Flemeth , for whatever reason , doesn't like it ...so she lured some human to drank dragon blood , knowing it will come handy later.
Just like she pushed Morrigan to save an old god in a foetus.

I really don't think it makes those human uber special...their blood is valuable to Flemeth and that Tevinter guy.But that's it.

I like Alistair ...and I really don't want him to become "I'm a very super special snowflakes."
The idea of the OGB being "special" makes my skin crawl already.

1.) I was never suggesting that dragon blood is immune to the taint. Maybe others were, but I just want it generally known that I'm not pushing to give Alistair superhero status or plot armor against the Calling.

2.) If their blood is valuable enough to Flemeth that she keeps dibs on the family (which she's powerful enough to track even if they weren't royalty) and Titus uses it to make himself super-crazy-blood-mage-powerful, it's officially super special. The whole comic series is about how Maric/Alistair's blood is super special.

What I'm saying is, now that we know that for a fact, what does that mean?

[In Exile]

leborum wrote...
Already happened to a character who might possibly be Alistair's mom.

If the narrative needs a living Therien that isn't Maric, I'd bet that this kid would be the substitute for Alistair. 

[Reznore57]

From what we know of the special dragon blood...it wakes dragons , like the taint.
And power can be drawn from it , like tainted blood (Avernus ) and normal blood (blood magic).

I mean ...that's it.
It doesn't seem like Alistair is going to grow wings one day and fly.

The fact that it's able to wake old dragons without corrupting them is reason enough for Flemeth and co ...it seems they think dragons are very valuable.

[dragondreamer]

 I find it interesting how much Dragon Age is building on old tribal beliefs that consuming part of a person or animal bestows their essence and power into oneself.  It's the basis of the Grey Wardens' joining with the consumption of darkspawn/archdemon blood and also the reavers with dragon blood.  No wonder there's blood mages left and right.  The new implications that it's something that can be hereditary makes me wonder about Grey Warden children.  Which are supposedly rare since conception isn't easy after the Joining is done, but it still happens.  Even though the taint supposedly doesn't transfer to a Warden conceived child (aside from Morrigan's OGB...not quite sure I understand how that worked exactly), I wonder if this means the blood/genetics of Grey Warden children is also altered in some way.   Maybe *that's* how Morrigan's OGB worked, who knows.

I think that even if Alistair could turn into some kind of especially nasty ghoul, he would take the Calling before that could happen.  But I agree if this ever happened my Warden would want to take him down himself, because it wouldn't be Alistair anymore, and he wouldn't want him to have to live like that.  

[Saibh]

That's...quite the Targaryen twist there. Huh. Well, in any case, it's possible. Alistair probably only dies in a few playthroughs, and it's not necessarily true that he needs to be king for this to be significant.

[ladyiolanthe]

I think that Alistair's dragon's blood/Darkspawn taint interaction might possibly be a moot point, when you consider events from DAO: Awakening and DAII.

In DAO: Awakening, The Architect found a way to quell the call of the Old Gods to the darkspawn. The Broodmother describes it as singing; she resents the Architect for preventing her from hearing that beautiful song.

In DAII, Bartrand goes mad after being exposed to the Old God idol made of pure lyrium; he describes hearing beautiful music, which to me was suspiciously similar to what the Broodmother describes. Varric starts exhibiting signs of madness, including hearing things, in the quest "Haunted", just because a shard of the idol is still present in Bartrand's house. Meredith also goes insane from exposure to the idol. Basically, it was turning humans, dwarves, etc. into something pretty much like Darkspawn.

When speaking with Nathaniel Howe in DAII, we learn that the Grey Wardens are working with some strange allies. The strong implication is that it's the Architect and his sane Darkspawn. It is entirely possible that The Architect and the Grey Wardens are together working towards a cure for the Darkspawn taint based on the Architect's work with Darkspawn and what Hawke et al discover in the primeval thaig. If your Hawke spares Bartrand's life, they have Bartrand to test things on since he goes to an insane asylum. If not, there are still a lot of Grey Wardens who might willingly undergo tests for a possible cure so that they will never experience the Calling. In which case, Alistair could be cured of his Grey Wardeness, as could the Hero of Ferelden if s/he survived in your games. Then, Alistair would be back to having dragon's blood and no Darkspawn taint, so the chance of him becoming a big baddy is small.

Since The Architect needs Grey Warden blood for his cure for the Darkspawn, it is in his best interests to cooperate with the Grey Wardens and that might include being asked to investigate a cure for those who have survived Grey Warden initiation.

Finding a cure for having undergone the Grey Warden initiation could be an important priority from the Ferelden crown's point of view, so that Alistair has a better chance of siring heirs. Also, if The Architect's work is successful, then there won't be any more Blights, so the First Warden might want to look into cures so that all the Wardens under his command don't suffer meaningless deaths when they succumb to the Calling. This nicely explains why a cure would be pursued even if Alistair doesn't become King in your games.

Supposing Alistair is cured of his Darkspawn taint, his dragon's blood might yet mean he has an important destiny to fulfill. It might not be an evil one, though.

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 23 juin 2013 - 12:28 .

[wiccame]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I totally embrace fan tears.

You just had to give him Ideas didn't you?

[duckley]

Interesting theory - but perhaps the two types of blood that run through his veins can turn him into some kind of superhero good-guy just as easily no?

[Qyla]

I almost read, thank you for the accurate spoiler alert

[Sparse]

Twisted Path wrote...

He's dead (in some people's playthroughs,) so uh...

Yeah, the problem with all of these books and comics with existing characters is that they rewrite things, I don't actually understand why they even bothered with characters who could conceivably be dead by the end of the first game.

It wasn't even difficult to get Alistair killed in DA:O so I think it is going to cause too many problems to bring in too much from the books, comics and cartoons.

Modifié par Sparse, 23 juin 2013 - 12:49 .