154 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

BeatoSama wrote...

The first is a reused DAO armor.
The second one is ridiculous though I agree but it's dlc and optional.

yea I meant the second one

[ironcreed2]

I honestly think the old Sacred Ashes trailer should be used as a reference. They should try to go all out and do something as close to that as they can get. Still love watching it:

[Zeldrik1389]

I think I'm old fashion, but I still find the art in Neverwinter Night, or Jade Empire to be pretty beautiful, even though they are super outdated by now xD It's still feel better to look at those game than looking at DA 2. It's style made me wonder what the heck was in their head when they developed the game. xD

[ironcreed2]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

I think I'm old fashion, but I still find the art in Neverwinter Night, or Jade Empire to be pretty beautiful, even though they are super outdated by now xD It's still feel better to look at those game than looking at DA 2. It's style made me wonder what the heck was in their head when they developed the game. xD

It was different, that is for sure. While I was mostly not a fan of the change in art, it was still a huge improvement in terms of the visuals in general and I did really like the new designs for the Qunari and Flemeth. But as far as adding more realism and even more impressive visuals goes, I also think the Destiny trailer for DAII would be a good reference to use. You know, use this new tech to try and make the game closer to all of these amazing trailers we see. Love or hate DAII, this is still a badass trailer.

Modifié par ironcreed2, 31 mars 2013 - 10:56 .

[Zeldrik1389]

ironcreed2 wrote...

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

I think I'm old fashion, but I still find the art in Neverwinter Night, or Jade Empire to be pretty beautiful, even though they are super outdated by now xD It's still feel better to look at those game than looking at DA 2. It's style made me wonder what the heck was in their head when they developed the game. xD

It was different, that is for sure. While I was mostly not a fan of the change in art, it was still a huge improvement in terms of the visuals in general and I did really like the new designs for the Qunari and Flemeth. But as far as adding more realism and even more impressive visuals goes, I also think the Destiny trailer for DAII would be a good reference to use. You know, use this new tech to try and make the game closer to all of these amazing trailers we see. Love or hate DAII, this is still a badass trailer.

 
Yeah, I agree that the new design is cool, especially Flemeth (with an exception of Darkspawn and Elves. Elves look too much like Avatar wannabe, while Darkspawn remind me of poorly disguise clowns). Though the water paint kind of look in DA 2 is ugly. I rather go all the way to drawing style like anime, or realistic style like DA:O than a half ass mixed like that. Though they will use new Frostbite for DA:I so I have high hope for a whole new level of realistic art style

Modifié par Zeldrik1389, 31 mars 2013 - 11:02 .

[ironcreed2]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

ironcreed2 wrote...

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

I think I'm old fashion, but I still find the art in Neverwinter Night, or Jade Empire to be pretty beautiful, even though they are super outdated by now xD It's still feel better to look at those game than looking at DA 2. It's style made me wonder what the heck was in their head when they developed the game. xD

It was different, that is for sure. While I was mostly not a fan of the change in art, it was still a huge improvement in terms of the visuals in general and I did really like the new designs for the Qunari and Flemeth. But as far as adding more realism and even more impressive visuals goes, I also think the Destiny trailer for DAII would be a good reference to use. You know, use this new tech to try and make the game closer to all of these amazing trailers we see. Love or hate DAII, this is still a badass trailer.

 
Yeah, I agree that the new design is cool, especially Flemeth (with an exception of Darkspawn and Elves. Elves look too much like Avatar wannabe, while Darkspawn remind me of poorly disguise clowns). Though the water paint kind of look in DA 2 is ugly. I rather go all the way to drawing style like anime, or realistic style like DA:O than a half ass mixed like that. Though they will use new Frostbite for DA:I so I have high hope for a whole new level of realistic art style

Yep, I am expecting the look to be more fully realized. Which is exciting indeed.

[Wulfram]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

I think I'm old fashion, but I still find the art in Neverwinter Night, or Jade Empire to be pretty beautiful, even though they are super outdated by now xD It's still feel better to look at those game than looking at DA 2. It's style made me wonder what the heck was in their head when they developed the game. xD

Jade Empire I can agree with, as long as I don't look at the face animations.

NWN though, I don't think I thought it was particularly good even when it was released.  Suffered a bit from the compromises necessary to make a relatively user friendly toolset I think.

[Zeldrik1389]

Wulfram wrote...

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

I think I'm old fashion, but I still find the art in Neverwinter Night, or Jade Empire to be pretty beautiful, even though they are super outdated by now xD It's still feel better to look at those game than looking at DA 2. It's style made me wonder what the heck was in their head when they developed the game. xD

Jade Empire I can agree with, as long as I don't look at the face animations.

NWN though, I don't think I thought it was particularly good even when it was released.  Suffered a bit from the compromises necessary to make a relatively user friendly toolset I think.

Yeah, overall NWN isn't amazingly good look. But there are part that were pretty well done, like the ghost tower, or the fairies in forest for instance. It wasn't as good as some other games at that same time, but still managed to amazed me. Combine with a good story and nice gameplay, it's still one of the games that I found myself coming back to once in awhile xD

Modifié par Zeldrik1389, 31 mars 2013 - 11:36 .

[Twisted Path]

It's been a while but when I think of the look of the Neverwinter O.C. I think of spikes and cleavage-armor. That game had some REALLY silly looking armor and outfits, especially for the female characters. Neverwinter Nights 2 is a game I still consider really good looking though. It's look also fits the (kind of generic,) Forgotten Realms/D&D feel more.

Modifié par Twisted Path, 01 avril 2013 - 02:44 .

[Jackums]

Polished DA:O.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

"photorealism" and "stylized" are on opposite ends of the visual spectrum with a crapton of possibilities between

Neither DA:O nor DA2 are photorealistic or completely stylized. They fall under a broad middlish category called stylized realism.

They are probably going to do a significantly more polished version of what they intended to do with DA2; I don't see why they wouldn't, and that's what the concept art shown thus far looks like.

Additionally, becaue an engine can achieve photorealism does not mean that only photorealistic games can be made on it. It just means that it has really advanced lighting and such, which benefits games of any style.

Here, have a chart.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 01 avril 2013 - 04:51 .

[Conduit0]

Pseudocognition wrote...

"photorealism" and "stylized" are on opposite ends of the visual spectrum with a crapton of possibilities between

Neither DA:O nor DA2 are photorealistic or completely stylized. They fall under a broad middlish category called stylized realism.

They are probably going to do a significantly more polished version of what they intended to do with DA2; I don't see why they wouldn't, and that's what the concept art shown thus far looks like.

Additionally, becaue an engine can achieve photorealism does not mean that only photorealistic games can be made on it. It just means that it has really advanced lighting and such, which benefits games of any style.

Here, have a chart.

Charts are always nice, but honestly the point will largely fall on deaf ears, its my general experience that the people constantly screaming for photorealism are the ones who are afraid people will think they're immature if they play games that are too, "cartoony". So they'll keep shouting for that photorealism, oh and, "dark and gritty" which actually means dull and brown, because apparently varied and vibrant colors are not "realistic".

[Bfler]

Conduit0 wrote...

Charts are always nice, but honestly the point will largely fall on deaf ears, its my general experience that the people constantly screaming for photorealism are the ones who are afraid people will think they're immature if they play games that are too, "cartoony". So they'll keep shouting for that photorealism, oh and, "dark and gritty" which actually means dull and brown, because apparently varied and vibrant colors are not "realistic".

In case of the PC gamers, I would rather think, that these are the people, who feel compelled to buy the best and most expensive new hardware and fear to realize, that they wasted their money if the games don't utilize it.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Conduit0 wrote...

Charts are always nice, but honestly the point will largely fall on deaf ears, its my general experience that the people constantly screaming for photorealism are the ones who are afraid people will think they're immature if they play games that are too, "cartoony". So they'll keep shouting for that photorealism, oh and, "dark and gritty" which actually means dull and brown, because apparently varied and vibrant colors are not "realistic".

Right. The great hypocrisy of said people is that what they uphold as examples of realism are not as realistic as they think.. hence the chart, futile though it may be. For them it seems that there is only an amorphous standard of "realism" based on personal preference and ability to suspend disbelief, a standard which not only does not ever remotely resemble photorealism graphically speaking but also seems to encompass every other facet of the game so that when they are discussing how realistic something is or isn't, they are never talking exclusively about the art direction.

So these threads tend to get no where.

Bfler wrote...

In case of the PC
gamers, I would rather think, that these are the people, who feel
compelled to buy the best and most expensive new hardware and fear to
realize, that they wasted their money if the games don't utilize
it.

On one hand I sort of get this, on the other hand advanced graphics are not solely the realm of photorealistic games. A game with incredibly advanced lighting, physics, effects etc isn't going to be any less demanding on your hardware if it looks cartoony.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 01 avril 2013 - 06:53 .

[Nashimura]

I think you meant "stylized" I don't think DA2 looked very stylish, it just looked kind of bad. Origins did not look that much better either, but it had the right tone.

[crimzontearz]

It is true that a lot of PC aficionados pretty much demand developers to give a game benchmark settings to push their rigs even if such games were never meant to be such (like Batman AA back then)

[Fast Jimmy]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Here, have a chart.

I have a chart.     He has a chart!
I have a chart.     A Dragon chart!

A chart to help us learn!


This thread is now on very thin ice. 

[Wulfram]

Conduit0 wrote...


Charts are always nice, but honestly the point will largely fall on deaf ears, its my general experience that the people constantly screaming for photorealism are the ones who are afraid people will think they're immature if they play games that are too, "cartoony". So they'll keep shouting for that photorealism, oh and, "dark and gritty" which actually means dull and brown, because apparently varied and vibrant colors are not "realistic".

It's my general experience that the people screaming for stylization are the ones who want to seem arty and sophisticated.

Or actual artists who want to play up their role.

edit:  But on this forum a lot of it comes down to the fact that Bioware said DA2 was stylised and DA2 looked rubbish.

Modifié par Wulfram, 01 avril 2013 - 02:11 .

[crimzontearz]

Wulfram wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...


Charts are always nice, but honestly the point will largely fall on deaf ears, its my general experience that the people constantly screaming for photorealism are the ones who are afraid people will think they're immature if they play games that are too, "cartoony". So they'll keep shouting for that photorealism, oh and, "dark and gritty" which actually means dull and brown, because apparently varied and vibrant colors are not "realistic".

It's my general experience that the people screaming for stylization are the ones who want to seem arty and sophisticated.

Or actual artists who want to play up their role.

I am neither but I do like stylized realism ala GOW if you ask me

[Conduit0]

Wulfram wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...


Charts are always nice, but honestly the point will largely fall on deaf ears, its my general experience that the people constantly screaming for photorealism are the ones who are afraid people will think they're immature if they play games that are too, "cartoony". So they'll keep shouting for that photorealism, oh and, "dark and gritty" which actually means dull and brown, because apparently varied and vibrant colors are not "realistic".

It's my general experience that the people screaming for stylization are the ones who want to seem arty and sophisticated.

Or actual artists who want to play up their role.

edit:  But on this forum a lot of it comes down to the fact that Bioware said DA2 was stylised and DA2 looked rubbish.

DA2 looked like rubbish and yet still managed to look better than DAO, and fyi, DAO was also heavily stylized.

No I'm not an artist, I'm just someone who thinks its wholely idiotic to want to remove the "fantasy" from a fantasy, Thedas is not Earth and it shouldn't look like Earth. The only reason to push photorealism in this kind of game is as I said, out of a fear of looking childish for playing a *gasp* "fantasy" game.

And before anyone says it, no DA is NOT a "low fantasy" or even "dark fantasy" its mother f-ing high fantasy complete with dragons, wizards, elves, and dwarves, hell add in some hobbits and change the word, "darkspawn" to, "orcs" and you'd have  MiddleEarth.

Now I'm not saying that DA3 should look like a Disney cartoon, I think stylized realism is the best fit for a game like DA3, for the simple reason that, its not the real world, so it shouldn't look exactly like the real world.

[ironcreed2]

Conduit0 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...


Charts are always nice, but honestly the point will largely fall on deaf ears, its my general experience that the people constantly screaming for photorealism are the ones who are afraid people will think they're immature if they play games that are too, "cartoony". So they'll keep shouting for that photorealism, oh and, "dark and gritty" which actually means dull and brown, because apparently varied and vibrant colors are not "realistic".

It's my general experience that the people screaming for stylization are the ones who want to seem arty and sophisticated.

Or actual artists who want to play up their role.

edit:  But on this forum a lot of it comes down to the fact that Bioware said DA2 was stylised and DA2 looked rubbish.

DA2 looked like rubbish and yet still managed to look better than DAO, and fyi, DAO was also heavily stylized.

No I'm not an artist, I'm just someone who thinks its wholely idiotic to want to remove the "fantasy" from a fantasy, Thedas is not Earth and it shouldn't look like Earth. The only reason to push photorealism in this kind of game is as I said, out of a fear of looking childish for playing a *gasp* "fantasy" game.

And before anyone says it, no DA is NOT a "low fantasy" or even "dark fantasy" its mother f-ing high fantasy complete with dragons, wizards, elves, and dwarves, hell add in some hobbits and change the word, "darkspawn" to, "orcs" and you'd have  MiddleEarth.

Now I'm not saying that DA3 should look like a Disney cartoon, I think stylized realism is the best fit for a game like DA3, for the simple reason that, its not the real world, so it shouldn't look exactly like the real world.

I am on board with this. They can absolutely go for a more realistic look that retains the fantasy appeal, so that you still feel like you are indeed playing through a fantasy. The concept art seems to suggest this and I could not be happier.

[Either.Ardrey]

I'd like them to continue along the Sebastian line, in a way. Sebastian was easily one of the most polished characters in DA2, and did the best job of showing the concept behind DA2's art shift. It was well designed and a good example of DA2's effort to bring forth an identity of its own (something DAO failed at, in my opinion), and its texturing and UV utilization was well executed. While his hair wasn't great by any stretch, it was still way better than most of the other hair in the game.

If they made better hair (Uncharted is a good reference for this) and add new processes that Frostbite 3 should allow them (Tessellation, increased poly count, SSS, Bokeh DoF, basic cloth physics, MSAA hair, image based reflections, global illumination, etc. CryEngine 3 and Unreal 4 support these kinds of processes, so I think Frostbite 3 is likely going there for some, if not all, of those.), I think we'd find a great mix that would solve all of DA2's graphical problems.

Modifié par Either.Ardrey, 01 avril 2013 - 05:09 .

[axl99]

We'll still have people ****ing about their ideal art direction for Dragon Age regardless, especially the armchair developer types. It's nothing new for BSN.

Or for the developers.

And here we haven't even seen in game footage yet.

Modifié par axl99, 01 avril 2013 - 05:27 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

@Conduit

So Dark Souls is high-fantasy too because it has dragons, magic and wizards? Or is Castlevania: Lords of Shadow high-fantasy too because it includes magic, fairies, trolls and goblins?

LoTR doesn't have demons, demonic possession or necromancy and doesn't tackle rape or sexism. By the former subjects alone Dragon Age is a dark fantasy. You can have a setting that contains "dark" elements as well as elements commonly found in a high-fantasy setting.

@OP

Finally, someone who understands the definitions of this subject. DA2 was highly stylized whereas Origins bordered more on realism. Photorealism for DA:I though? Personally I think that's too common in many games today. Bioware should try to make an artstyle that is as unique as the one from Dark Souls or Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, both of which are realistic but not photorealistic.

[BeatoSama]

Dragon Age Origins wasn't in any way bordering on realism. The characters are badly proportioned the colors washed out and the lightning and textures doesn't look like anything you would see in real life.