490 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Forgive me I didn't read the whole thread, and it's been a while that I am not sure if I'm correct, but as far as Dragon Age is concerned....I remember 99% of relationships shown were either dysfunctional or suffered a horrible fate. It doesn't seem to be something limited to lesbian relationships.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 mars 2013 - 03:35 .

[MrCousland99]

Huh, I never thought about this before. I never really liked Branka being a lesbian in the Anvil storyline. It all seemed pointless and thrown in there...but what can I expect from the writer that shall not be named lol. I am perfectly fine with them putting in a lesbian/gay character, but the problem seems to be they are just THROWN in and don't seem to have any depth, like Anders "oh yeah i'm a rebel mage who is now really angry all the time for some reason...oh! and I am also bi...maybe that's just me lol.

[Xilizhra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Forgive me I didn't read the whole thread, and it's been a while that I am not sure if I'm correct, but as far as Dragon Age is concerned....I remember 99% of relationships shown were either dysfunctional or suffered a horrible fate. It doesn't seem to be something limited to lesbian relationships.

Well, that in and of itself annoys me, but the point is that there aren't enough, if any, lesbian counterexamples to that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Forgive me I didn't read the whole thread, and it's been a while that I am not sure if I'm correct, but as far as Dragon Age is concerned....I remember 99% of relationships shown were either dysfunctional or suffered a horrible fate. It doesn't seem to be something limited to lesbian relationships.

Well, that in and of itself annoys me, but the point is that there aren't enough, if any, lesbian counterexamples to that.

There isn't a straight one either that I can think of, except maybe Aveline and whatshisface Donnic? 

[iOnlySignIn]

Nonsense.

BioWare games (especially Dragon Age) are full of happy, uneventful, and completely ordinary background heterosexual couples who never die/breakup/fight/quarrel.

Because those kind of relationships are very interesting and should be included in any good work of fiction.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 30 mars 2013 - 04:42 .

[TheJediSaint]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Nonsense.

BioWare games (especially Dragon Age) are full of happy, uneventful, and completely ordinary background heterosexual couples who never die/breakup/fight/quarrel.

Because those kind of relationships are very interesting and should be included in any good work of fiction.

So the solution, as David Gaider pointed out, is to have NO happy relationships, regardless of orientation.

[iOnlySignIn]

TheJediSaint wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Nonsense.

BioWare games (especially Dragon Age) are full of happy, uneventful, and completely ordinary background heterosexual couples who never die/breakup/fight/quarrel.

Because those kind of relationships are very interesting and should be included in any good work of fiction.

So the solution, as David Gaider pointed out, is to have NO happy relationships, regardless of orientation.

Who needs happy relationships when you could kill/destroy anyone/anything which annoys you? By throwing fireballs or lightnings from your fingers?

I know I wouldn't.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 30 mars 2013 - 04:44 .

[Xilizhra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Forgive me I didn't read the whole thread, and it's been a while that I am not sure if I'm correct, but as far as Dragon Age is concerned....I remember 99% of relationships shown were either dysfunctional or suffered a horrible fate. It doesn't seem to be something limited to lesbian relationships.

Well, that in and of itself annoys me, but the point is that there aren't enough, if any, lesbian counterexamples to that.

There isn't a straight one either that I can think of, except maybe Aveline and whatshisface Donnic? 

Bhelen and Rica. Yes, he can get killed, but that's no guarantee. Then there's Rhys and Evangeline from Asunder. Gheyna and Cammen, too.

Yes, two of those depend on player choice. I'm fine with that being the case for lesbian relationships that happen to work out too, though would somewhat prefer it if that wasn't a necessity for all of those.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...
Bhelen and Rica. Yes, he can get killed, but that's no guarantee. Then there's Rhys and Evangeline from Asunder. Gheyna and Cammen, too.

Yes, two of those depend on player choice. I'm fine with that being the case for lesbian relationships that happen to work out too, though would somewhat prefer it if that wasn't a necessity for all of those.

As much of a Bhelen fan I am, I am not sure I'd qualify his relationship with Rica as healthy or ideal. But I did forget about Gheyna and Cammen. 

In any case, I would like to see more functional relationships across the board too, so I am not in disagreement. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 mars 2013 - 04:46 .

[Xilizhra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Bhelen and Rica. Yes, he can get killed, but that's no guarantee. Then there's Rhys and Evangeline from Asunder. Gheyna and Cammen, too.

Yes, two of those depend on player choice. I'm fine with that being the case for lesbian relationships that happen to work out too, though would somewhat prefer it if that wasn't a necessity for all of those.

As much of a Bhelen fan I am, I am not sure I'd qualify his relationship with Rica as healthy or ideal. But I did forget about Gheyna and Cammen. 

In any case, I would like to see more functional relationships across the board too, so I am not in disagreement. 

Not ideal as such, but considering dwarf society, it's about as good as Rica can be expected to get. Heck, if you happen to play a dwarf commoner, your whole family will be elevated to the nobility and Rica can marry Bhelen as an equal.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 30 mars 2013 - 04:48 .

[TheJediSaint]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Nonsense.

BioWare games (especially Dragon Age) are full of happy, uneventful, and completely ordinary background heterosexual couples who never die/breakup/fight/quarrel.

Because those kind of relationships are very interesting and should be included in any good work of fiction.

So the solution, as David Gaider pointed out, is to have NO happy relationships, regardless of orientation.

Who needs happy relationships when you could kill/destroy anyone/anything which annoys you? By throwing fireballs or lightnings from your fingers?

I know I wouldn't.

Nobody needs true love when you have UNLIMITED POWER!

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 30 mars 2013 - 04:53 .

[iOnlySignIn]

TheJediSaint wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Who needs happy relationships when you could kill/destroy anyone/anything which annoys you? By throwing fireballs or lightnings from your fingers?

I know I wouldn't.

Nobody needs true love when you have UNLIMITED POWER!

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 30 mars 2013 - 10:01 .

[LobselVith8]

TheJediSaint wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Nonsense.

BioWare games (especially Dragon Age) are full of happy, uneventful, and completely ordinary background heterosexual couples who never die/breakup/fight/quarrel.

Because those kind of relationships are very interesting and should be included in any good work of fiction.

So the solution, as David Gaider pointed out, is to have NO happy relationships, regardless of orientation. 

That doesn't make any sense.

[Xilizhra]

Foshizzlin wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Nonsense.

BioWare games (especially Dragon Age) are full of happy, uneventful, and completely ordinary background heterosexual couples who never die/breakup/fight/quarrel.

Because those kind of relationships are very interesting and should be included in any good work of fiction.

Like I pointed out, people love and remember the tragic relationships. Wanting things to be hunky-dory all the way leads to unmemorable relationships.

Ah, yes, because no one at all remembered the Aveline/Donnic thing.

In any case, I personally detest tragic relationships.

[HolyAvenger]

Xilizhra wrote...
In any case, I personally detest tragic relationships.

 

And yet you're sticking with a series that has Gaider as the lead writer.

You must be a masochist. 

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...


Ah, yes, because no one at all remembered the Aveline/Donnic thing.

In any case, I personally detest tragic relationships.

The IP is full of tragic relationships though. Considerign the writers's mindset, I doubt that we'll see a lot of happy relationship in the future games.

[Xilizhra]

hhh89 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


Ah, yes, because no one at all remembered the Aveline/Donnic thing.

In any case, I personally detest tragic relationships.

The IP is full of tragic relationships though. Considerign the writers's mindset, I doubt that we'll see a lot of happy relationship in the future games.

Noted, I just don't want that to be all there is.

[Atalanta]

Well, the platonic PC/Morrigan friendship and the unlikely bond that sprung up between Aveline and Isabela are among the most memorable things in Dragon Age for me. Were those relationships 100% perfect? Nope (especially where Morrigan is concerned!), but I felt they were still exceptionally positive.

Aveline and Donnic finding each other was also fantastic, and I don't think that it's unreasonable to ask that gays and lesbians also have a positive example or two to take away with them after they finish a game. I think it's difficult for non-LGBTs to wrap their minds around just how little there is written with us in mind in media, and how big of a difference positive protrayals in fiction can make. The desire to not be excluded is the major reason these kinds of threads are common - not to attack the developers or to make people feel uncomfortable.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[Xilizhra]

It was memorable because of its hilariously awkward build-up and how funny Aveline was about it. It wasn't remembered because they fell in love at first sight and got married the next day.

Yes, and I'm not opposed to such things. There are ways for relationships to be memorable that aren't defined by negativity.

[sandalisthemaker]

Atalanta wrote...

 I think it's difficult for non-LGBTs to wrap their minds around just how little there is written with us in mind in media, and how big of a difference positive protrayals in fiction can make. 
Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Yes, this.

[slimgrin]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
In any case, I personally detest tragic relationships.

 

And yet you're sticking with a series that has Gaider as the lead writer.

You must be a masochist. 

Well, he was inspired by Martin so I don't expect too much in the way of rainbows and puppies. 

-edit.

Modifié par slimgrin, 30 mars 2013 - 08:27 .

[David Gaider]

Atalanta wrote...
Aveline and Donnic finding each other was also fantastic, and I don't think that it's unreasonable to ask that gays and lesbians also have a positive example or two to take away with them after they finish a game. I think it's difficult for non-LGBTs to wrap their minds around just how little there is written with us in mind in media, and how big of a difference positive protrayals in fiction can make. The desire to not be excluded is the major reason these kinds of threads are common - not to attack the developers or to make people feel uncomfortable.

It's not unreasonable to ask, but I think it's also not unreasonable for us to say "no" in this case. I believe my obligation extends to making these characters human, not to making them happy or even making them positive examples of anything.

Considering the original point had to be stretched pretty thinly in order to connect the dots as she wished, the ultimate point that ends up being made is a rather thin one. I'm not really convinced there's a pattern of targeting lesbian relationships as unhappy over the course of Dragon Age-- one would probably get better mileage saying "I'd like to see more happy relationships at all", which I would still glance sideways at because I think happy is boring but I at least could understand where someone was coming from on that front.

[Commander Kurt]

MissOuJ wrote...

I can name one gay relationship and a couple straight relationships, so it's not like happy ends/non-depressing ends are completely unheard of.

Fine, you know what? Tell me about them. Give me a list of all the hetero relationships that are "happy" (according to the rules that means they don't end and aren't tainted by horrible death). This apparently now only applies to DA, and it has to be inherent to the universe (it's happy in every playthrough).