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Jayne126 wrote...
Pff, all this lovey dovey stuff *yawn*.
I'm all for equal suffering~
They already have them.RedArmyShogun wrote...
What Bioware needs is LI Deaths.
Modifié par HJF4, 01 avril 2013 - 11:04 .
Yeah, but with explosions.HJF4 wrote...
They already have them.RedArmyShogun wrote...
What Bioware needs is LI Deaths.
BouncyFrag wrote...
Yeah, but with explosions.HJF4 wrote...
They already have them.RedArmyShogun wrote...
What Bioware needs is LI Deaths.
Modifié par Sylvianus, 02 avril 2013 - 12:12 .
Jayne126 wrote...
Pff, all this lovey dovey stuff *yawn*.
I'm all for equal suffering~
RedArmyShogun wrote...
^ Exactly DA has a proven history of spouse deaths! And just think of all the space the forum will save if your LI DIES. No more fanfics, no more who's hotter, no more can I have babies with the elf.
DEATH FOR ALL.
legbamel wrote...
You can't sleep with Sebastian so he gets a pass.
Faerunner wrote...
Their problems have nothing to do with their sexual orientation, but they are still the only F/F relationships the PC is not involved with and they both have significant moral and mental health problems. If the only F/F relationships that all players can see are depicted as horribly unhealthy, then it doesn't send a very positive message of F/F relationships.
And I disagree because the people wanting to pursue a F/F Romance with their PC already know and desire to have healthy F/F relationships, whereas people who don't know, or might have some subconscious prejudices, might find those prejudices consciously or subconsciously fed because the only F/F relationships they see in the world turn out to be miserable, amoral and/or tragic over and over.
Providing positive F/F relationships ONLY for Female Players in the said F/F relationship is not making a "stand" at all because they already know about and/or desire positive portrayals. It's like if I made a "stand" for LGBT treatment at my local LGBT Club Meeting. Not really going to do anything since the people there are obvsiously already LGBT friendly. Meanwhile the masses outside remain blissfully unaware because we haven't brought any of our ideas to their attention.
Leliana's background happened regardless of whether the player character talks to her about it; that's why it's "inherent" in the world as opposed to only springing into existence when the player gets involved.
Some players might learn about it while others can't, but all players of all genders and orientations can learn about her tragic F/F relationship past whereas ONLY Female Wardens entering a romance with her can experience a positive F/F relationship.
I think it would be more useful if it's a couple stuck in a location that the player character has to pass by at least once, and if they speak within earshot of the player.
Sorry, I'm with them. Al and Zev are great characters, but I just don't see them together.
This is true, but what's also true is that we really need both messages to be sent. I know it can be tempting to tell the lowest common denominator to just go hang themselves, but we need the masses, ultimately.I think you're underselling the importance of this sort of support. Yes, it doesn't send a message (necessarily) to the masses beyond everyone is equal and we support them. But even saying that is very important, and the sense of inclusion that you foster for your audience is important.
Then make it somewhat more prominent so that it can't be missed, perhaps?Of course, I agree. The point of my example was to show that a positive portrayal doesn't mean anything if most players don't see it. And the same applies to a negative one. If the issue is that negative portrayals are front and centre in DA:O, I just don't buy that this one off conversation that most players could just walk by and dismiss in a rush for more plot is a counter-balance.
Fast Jimmy wrote...
RedArmyShogun wrote...
^ Exactly DA has a proven history of spouse deaths! And just think of all the space the forum will save if your LI DIES. No more fanfics, no more who's hotter, no more can I have babies with the elf.
DEATH FOR ALL.
I would actually think this would be really cool. Every companion of your's lives... unless you romance them. Then, for reasons that are somewhere on the McGuffin scale of being more silly than the Dark Ritual but less ridiculous than the Crucible plans, they die.
In DA2, this could be that Anders is killed by Meredith on sight after the big Kaboom. For Fenris, this could be that he is murder-knifed by his sister. For Merril, her clan refuses to take the peaceful route and an arrow pieces her through the chest by a dying Dalish. For Isabella... Super-Syphyllis. For Sebastian... well, he's DLC. If you pay extra money for the character, you can romance them without death. That seems like a strategy EA would be happy to endorse.
Its almost too easy...
Xilizhra wrote...
This is true, but what's also true is that we really need both messages to be sent. I know it can be tempting to tell the lowest common denominator to just go hang themselves, but we need the masses, ultimately.
Then make it somewhat more prominent so that it can't be missed, perhaps?
Unfortunately also true. Although I'm not entirely for adding transgendered PC options to DA, because the character alteration it'd lead to would almost have to require a completely different writing and psyche, and I don't think that anyone at Bioware is skilled enough to pull that off yet (better NPC ones, however, I'm all for).I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. But consider the portrayal of characters who aren't cis-gendered in a Bioware game (read: not good, played for laughs, though Bioware admited MOTA was a scripting mistake). Even player specific content based on choosing a particular identity would be a leap forward on this front.
They've carried it... relatively well. This may sound like damning with faint praise, and maybe it is, but there still is room for improvement, which isn't to say that the progress they have made isn't relatively impressive.I'm not disagreeing with you, Xil, on what Bioware needs to do moving forward. I just think that they carried the torch quite well over the last few years, especially in this industry (whose treatment of women seems to be, OMG, is this the 1950s?).
So someone like Aveline, but gay? Unfortunately, we already have reasons as to why that won't work for romanceable companions.That's what I've been suggesting since DA:O came out. It's why I support, for example, gay/lesbian companions rather than bi companions. It's a chance for the devs. to send a message.
Hell, it can be a non-romanceable companion.
n7stormrunner wrote...
Reznore57 wrote...
About Wade and Herren , I didn't even pick up they were a couple.
really?,
Modifié par rapscallioness, 02 avril 2013 - 04:48 .
Xilizhra wrote...
Unfortunately also true. Although I'm not entirely for adding transgendered PC options to DA, because the character alteration it'd lead to would almost have to require a completely different writing and psyche, and I don't think that anyone at Bioware is skilled enough to pull that off yet (better NPC ones, however, I'm all for).
They've carried it... relatively well. This may sound like damning with faint praise, and maybe it is, but there still is room for improvement, which isn't to say that the progress they have made isn't relatively impressive.
)So someone like Aveline, but gay? Unfortunately, we already have reasons as to why that won't work for romanceable companions.
I won't deny that they're valuable... but they don't serve the same role as NPC relationships, and we need both.In the end, I agree. I just wanted to illustrate what I meant by the PC-specific options being valuable.
I meant as in Aveline's romance arc. But yes, I'd find that quite interesting coming from Bethany.Actually, I'd rather it have been Bethany. Given our unforunate society, I think Aveline would just fall into a butch stereotype, and carry more negative than positive associations.
andy69156915 wrote...
The Warden disappearing doesn't mean the relationship went to hell. For all we know, they hook up again at a later date after the Warden reappears and they go on living together.
Xilizhra wrote...
No. As previously mentioned, we
have relationships like Aveline/Donnic for straight ones, as well as the
one (out of maybe two or three even presented) for gay men
in Wade/Herren.
I could get behind a same-sex Varric romance.In Exile wrote...
For a guy, I'd say Varric. Because he's just made of awesome. A good example in media (IMO) is Omar. Absolutely my favourite character on the Wire.
Fuggyt wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
And yes, if you can include more positive lesbian relationship examples, that'll be enough.
How many examples will be enough? One? That's a token. Two? That's pandering. Three? That's an agenda.
I see your point, Xil, I assume you see mine.
Modifié par Palathas, 03 avril 2013 - 01:25 .
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