490 réponses à ce sujet

[frostajulie]

The trend I tend to notice is any time Bioware wants you to feel they go for tragedy thats what disturbs me. The Krogan Asari romance between Char and the blue rose is a strraight example of tragedy and I honestly think the writers are so focused on making you feel by writing tragedies that they often forget the rest of the spectrum of human emotions. The end of ME3 is a prine example. It does seem as if there has been a course correction in the Citadel DLC lots of laughs and daw moments there.

And not all Lesbian relationships go wrong Leiliana and the warden in DAO... orrr Hawke and Merrill, yeah that one is kinda....

hmm OP I believe you may have a point.

[sandalisthemaker]

TheJediSaint wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

I agree with you OP, and Lol at everyone trying to refute your observations and/or saying that *some* straight relationships go bad as well. OP is saying that *ALL* lesbian npc relationships end tragically, which they do.
IMO, its a sort of subtle aesop... that perhaps if they would have been with a man they would have lived happily ever after...*wink wink*

The flaw in that logic is none of the lesiban relationships failed because the characters were lesbians.  They failed for reasons independent of their sexuality.

Doesn't really matter, though.  The fact remains that they were lesbians, and their relationships failed/ended tragically every single time.

[Goneaviking]

David7204 wrote...

I just noticed something. Schumacher says "keep in mind that the end goal of being all inclusive is that we all won't even notice these things." But he also agrees with Gaider that privilage means not considering something a problem because it doesn't affect you.

Isn't that incredibly contradictory? We're supposed to simultaneously not care about gender, race, sexuality, etc., but at the same time we're 'privilaged' for not considering those things a problem?

Even if his point was that we're supposed to not care at some unspecified point in the future when society is perfect or something, that just leads to infinite regression. We aren't 'allowed' to 'not care' until things are perfect, and things won't be perfect until we don't care.

No. He's saying that ultimately we want to get to a point where these things aren't a problem.

Descrimination and inequality in race ... [et al] are serious problems and ones that need to be consciously addressed, but if the end point isn't that having minority character die, or be a villain, or whatever, is no longer emblematic of some larger problem then what target are we aiming for?

[Goneaviking]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

I agree with you OP, and Lol at everyone trying to refute your observations and/or saying that *some* straight relationships go bad as well. OP is saying that *ALL* lesbian npc relationships end tragically, which they do.
IMO, its a sort of subtle aesop... that perhaps if they would have been with a man they would have lived happily ever after...*wink wink*

The flaw in that logic is none of the lesiban relationships failed because the characters were lesbians.  They failed for reasons independent of their sexuality.

Doesn't really matter, though.  The fact remains that they were lesbians, and their relationships failed/ended tragically every single time.

Gotcha. Bioware please insert some token happy lesbians into your next game. Because seriously, that's the level of criticism you're getting now.

[sandalisthemaker]

Goneaviking wrote...


Gotcha. Bioware please insert some token happy lesbians into your next game. Because seriously, that's the level of criticism you're getting now.

Lol.
Lesbians deserve positive relationships too. Why is that so unreasonable of a request?

[TheJediSaint]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...


Gotcha. Bioware please insert some token happy lesbians into your next game. Because seriously, that's the level of criticism you're getting now.

Lol.
Lesbians deserve positive relationships too. Why is that so unreasonable of a request?

It's not.  But I think it is unreasonable to think that Bioware is trying to imply something about lesbian relationships.   If anything, I think people are just looking for an excuse to be offended.

[David7204]

Goneaviking wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I just noticed something. Schumacher says "keep in mind that the end goal of being all inclusive is that we all won't even notice these things." But he also agrees with Gaider that privilage means not considering something a problem because it doesn't affect you.

Isn't that incredibly contradictory? We're supposed to simultaneously not care about gender, race, sexuality, etc., but at the same time we're 'privilaged' for not considering those things a problem?

Even if his point was that we're supposed to not care at some unspecified point in the future when society is perfect or something, that just leads to infinite regression. We aren't 'allowed' to 'not care' until things are perfect, and things won't be perfect until we don't care.

No. He's saying that ultimately we want to get to a point where these things aren't a problem.

Descrimination and inequality in race ... [et al] are serious problems and ones that need to be consciously addressed, but if the end point isn't that having minority character die, or be a villain, or whatever, is no longer emblematic of some larger problem then what target are we aiming for?

That's just it. I'm not sure we're really aiming for a consistent target at all.

[sandalisthemaker]

TheJediSaint wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...


Gotcha. Bioware please insert some token happy lesbians into your next game. Because seriously, that's the level of criticism you're getting now.

Lol.
Lesbians deserve positive relationships too. Why is that so unreasonable of a request?

It's not.  But I think it is unreasonable to think that Bioware is trying to imply something about lesbian relationships.   If anything, I think people are just looking for an excuse to be offended.

Something doesn't have to be intentional in order to send a message.

[TheJediSaint]

sandalisthemaker wrote...


Something doesn't have to be intentional in order to send a message.

Forgive me for being flipant, but if I see a bunny in the clouds, that a doesn't mean the clouds are sending a message about bunnies.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 30 mars 2013 - 02:19 .

[sandalisthemaker]

krul2k wrote...

ppl on these boards dont need an excuse to be offended, being born was enough for them to walk about being offended

When someone is a member of a group that is margionalized IRL, they tend to critical/sensitive to issues that pertain to that group. 

[Solmanian]

First things first: Asari aren't lesbiens... They're monogendered, no male Vs female things (I remmeber Liara's father biting shepard's head off for claiming that you need to be a male to be considered "father"). A sexual relationship with an asari isn't lesbien or homosexual, it's xenosexual - as in the same category of a relationship witha turian or salarian. Their reproductive organs (of all species) are so different that labels like "gender" are meaningless.

Second, it seems to me when bioware designs a charecter, they think of it as a person first and a romantic object a far second if at all.

[sandalisthemaker]

Foshizzlin wrote...

If it was gay, straight, or bi, the sky would be mandatorily required by BSN to add in two other bunnies of the other two orientations, because if they didn't, it would be anti-inclusive.

Hilarious....

[sandalisthemaker]

Solmanian wrote...

First things first: Asari aren't lesbiens... They're monogendered, no male Vs female things (I remmeber Liara's father biting shepard's head off for claiming that you need to be a male to be considered "father"). A sexual relationship with an asari isn't lesbien or homosexual, it's xenosexual - as in the same category of a relationship witha turian or salarian. Their reproductive organs (of all species) are so different that labels like "gender" are meaningless.

Second, it seems to me when bioware designs a charecter, they think of it as a person first and a romantic object a far second if at all.

But asari are female. It says so in the codex.  They are monogendered, yes... and that mono gender is female.
They refer to themselves as female.
All asari/asari relationships are lesbian relationships.
If an asari is in a relationship with a female of another species, they are in a lesbian relationship

[Homebound]

no relationship is perfect. Why should an imperfect relationship between two people of the same sex be any different? I dont think its a disturbing trend. More of a representation that they are very much the same as any couple with issues.

[TheJediSaint]

Homebound wrote...

no relationship is perfect. Why should an imperfect relationship between two people of the same sex be any different? I dont think its a disturbing trend. More of a representation that they are very much the same as any couple with issues.

So by implication, Bioware views same-sex relationships as being functionally the same opposite-sex ones.