490 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

I'd love to see a happy homosexual couple on Dragon Age.

Also, I felt Branka and Felsi was in poor taste.

[Sibu]

Willowhugger wrote...

I'd love to see a happy homosexual couple on Dragon Age.

Also, I felt Branka and Felsi was in poor taste.

Of course it was of poor taste... Branka was a horrible person

[Fredward]

Is a relationship with an Asari even technically a gay relationship? If your entire race is one sex/gender is it fair to label that gender as female?

[Xilizhra]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Is a relationship with an Asari even technically a gay relationship? If your entire race is one sex/gender is it fair to label that gender as female?

YES. They're single-gendered, not no-gendered. They reproduce by parthenogenesis, not hermaphroditism.

[sandalisthemaker]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Is a relationship with an Asari even technically a gay relationship? If your entire race is one sex/gender is it fair to label that gender as female?

Yes, if the other person is female.
What would you call the Asari then? Male?

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 30 mars 2013 - 05:55 .

[Xilizhra]

Faerunner wrote...

Sibu wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

I'd love to see a happy homosexual couple on Dragon Age.

Also, I felt Branka and Felsi was in poor taste.

Of course it was of poor taste... Branka was a horrible person

And so is at least one woman in every background lesbian relationship in DA.

There are so few of them, but every single one just happens to have a horrible woman do something horrible to her partner, whereas it's not uniform for every straight or gay background couple we see in this universe. (I can't speak for Mass Effect because I've never played.) In DA:O, both Branka and Marjolaine happen to be amoral, self-serving nutjobs who betray their female lovers because they're evil and/or insane, while not every straight or even gay couple (courtesy of Wade and Herren) involves one victimizing the other. How is that even?

Well. To be absolutely fair, I can think of... three where nothing goes wrong inside the relationship, it's just that someone is killed from the outside. Unfortunately, all three are in Mass Effect, so you're right about Dragon Age (though I admit that that's only one game out of two, as there aren't any at all in DA2).

[Fredward]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Is a relationship with an Asari even technically a gay relationship? If your entire race is one sex/gender is it fair to label that gender as female?

Yes, if the other person is female.
What would you call them, then? Male?

I feel like I may have opened a Pandora's box here but yes. Or maybe anyway. None of the Asari have a choice in their sex (not that anyone does but they even less than most) so what if one identifies more with the stereotypical "male" gender? Should that Asari then be considered a male? Is the orientation value of a relationship based solely on the sex of the participants? If the one participant's entire RACE is one sex it seems extra unfair to label them all under the same banner.

[Sibu]

Faerunner wrote...

Sibu wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

I'd love to see a happy homosexual couple on Dragon Age.

Also, I felt Branka and Felsi was in poor taste.

Of course it was of poor taste... Branka was a horrible person

And so is at least one woman in every background lesbian relationship in DA.

There are so few of them, but every single one just happens to have a horrible woman do something horrible to her partner, whereas it's not uniform for every straight or gay background couple we see in this universe. (I can't speak for Mass Effect because I've never played.) In DA:O, both Branka and Marjolaine happen to be amoral, self-serving nutjobs who betray their female lovers because they're evil and/or insane, while not every straight or even gay couple (courtesy of Wade and Herren) involves one victimizing the other. How is that even?

A homosexual man is a slaver and a rapist. A straight man went to a wedding and raped 4 females and killed 2 grooms. A bisexual man blew up a building full of inocent people. A "chaste" man tried to enslave an inocent girl. Evil has no gender, race or sexual preference and neither does good... don't try to act like you are special.

[Xilizhra]

A homosexual man is a slaver and a rapist. A straight man went to a wedding and raped 4 females and killed 2 grooms. A bisexual man blew up a building full of inocent people. A "chaste" man tried to enslave an inocent girl. Evil has no gender, race or sexual preference and neither does good... don't try to act like you are special.

The point is that all of them have counterexamples that lesbian relationships don't have in DA.

I feel like I may have opened a Pandora's box here but yes. Or maybe
anyway. None of the Asari have a choice in their sex (not that anyone
does but they even less than most) so what if one identifies more with
the stereotypical "male" gender? Should that Asari then be considered a
male? Is the orientation value of a relationship based solely on the sex
of the participants? If the one participant's entire RACE is one sex it
seems extra unfair to label them all under the same banner.

I don't think any do. Why would they? It'd have to be learned, and that's not the same thing as an inborn identification with the other gender or none at all; those only really apply to species that have two sexes. It'd be like a human Ardat-Yakshi; the species just doesn't work that way.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 30 mars 2013 - 06:08 .

[sandalisthemaker]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Is a relationship with an Asari even technically a gay relationship? If your entire race is one sex/gender is it fair to label that gender as female?

Yes, if the other person is female.
What would you call them, then? Male?

I feel like I may have opened a Pandora's box here but yes. Or maybe anyway. None of the Asari have a choice in their sex (not that anyone does but they even less than most) so what if one identifies more with the stereotypical "male" gender? Should that Asari then be considered a male? Is the orientation value of a relationship based solely on the sex of the participants? If the one participant's entire RACE is one sex it seems extra unfair to label them all under the same banner.

Well, I suppose that if an Asari wanted to self-identify as male, then that's one thing. I'm just referring to the game itself calling the Asari an all female race via the codex.

[Sibu]

Xilizhra wrote...

A homosexual man is a slaver and a rapist. A straight man went to a wedding and raped 4 females and killed 2 grooms. A bisexual man blew up a building full of inocent people. A "chaste" man tried to enslave an inocent girl. Evil has no gender, race or sexual preference and neither does good... don't try to act like you are special.

The point is that all of them have counterexamples that lesbian relationships don't have in DA.

So? Do you need a video game to tell you that your sexual preference is "good" or that you are a good person?

People should concentrate more on the individuals and not so much on the whole

[Allan Schumacher]

I just noticed something. Schumacher says "keep in mind that the end goal of being all inclusive is that we all won't even notice these things." But he also agrees with Gaider that privilage means not considering something a problem because it doesn't affect you.

Isn't that incredibly contradictory? We're supposed to simultaneously not care about gender, race, sexuality, etc., but at the same time we're 'privilaged' for not considering those things a problem?

They represent two different states, coupled with you not understanding what privilege is. Privilege is not recognizing that something is a problem for someone else, because it's not a problem for you. My (admittedly idealized) end state is that it gets to a point where it's not a problem for anyone, so it isn't a position of privilege. (All people being equally privileged is equivalent to no one being privileged at all).

[Allan Schumacher]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Something doesn't have to be intentional in order to send a message.

Well, at least we're all getting insulted now (including me).

I'm rather proud of attempting to be more inclusive in our stories and characters, and at this point I think it's best for me to just take a break rather than have people tell me that our attempts have only made things worse because we're sending hidden messages.  Doubly so for actually suggesting in a different post that it's like we're suggesting that if they were in heterosexual relationships things would have been fine.

At this point, I hope the writers just do what they want to do.  If it's not good enough for some, so be it.

[Sibu]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Something doesn't have to be intentional in order to send a message.

Well, at least we're all getting insulted now (including me).

I'm rather proud of attempting to be more inclusive in our stories and characters, and at this point I think it's best for me to just take a break rather than have people tell me that our attempts have only made things worse because we're sending hidden messages.  Doubly so for actually suggesting in a different post that it's like we're suggesting that if they were in heterosexual relationships things would have been fine.

At this point, I hope the writers just do what they want to do.  If it's not good enough for some, so be it.

And you should feel proud

[Xilizhra]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Something doesn't have to be intentional in order to send a message.

Well, at least we're all getting insulted now (including me).

I'm rather proud of attempting to be more inclusive in our stories and characters, and at this point I think it's best for me to just take a break rather than have people tell me that our attempts have only made things worse because we're sending hidden messages.  Doubly so for actually suggesting in a different post that it's like we're suggesting that if they were in heterosexual relationships things would have been fine.

At this point, I hope the writers just do what they want to do.  If it's not good enough for some, so be it.

If you weren't trying this sort of thing at all, I'd be ignoring your franchises completely, in all likelihood. This still is an improvement. I would recommend that you not leave at this juncture; I think we've been starting to get somewhere. I don't believe that anyone is accusing you of anything intentional, nor of somehow making the problem worse than if you didn't include anything (except maybe for the lesbian vampire thing, but that wasn't something you were involved in and it wasn't repeated). The only thing to note is to give more examples of lesbian relationships that aren't tragically doomed somehow.

[TheJediSaint]

Allan Schumacher wrote...


Well, at least we're all getting insulted now (including me).

I'm rather proud of attempting to be more inclusive in our stories and characters, and at this point I think it's best for me to just take a break rather than have people tell me that our attempts have only made things worse because we're sending hidden messages.  Doubly so for actually suggesting in a different post that it's like we're suggesting that if they were in heterosexual relationships things would have been fine.

At this point, I hope the writers just do what they want to do.  If it's not good enough for some, so be it.

We still appreciate you droping in, Alan.   Your input is always above par.   

[Barquiel]

To be fair, ME3 had several of these sad romance stories: Ereba and Charr, the turian who tells his wife to go to Sanctuary with their two daughters...at least it's entirely possible that the asari daughter survives the reaper invasion on Thessia (Thessia falls near the end of the war, Earth was harvested much longer)...headcanon territory, I guess. But I agree, it would be nice to see a happy homosexual couple for a change.

[sandalisthemaker]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Something doesn't have to be intentional in order to send a message.

Well, at least we're all getting insulted now (including me).

I'm rather proud of attempting to be more inclusive in our stories and characters, and at this point I think it's best for me to just take a break rather than have people tell me that our attempts have only made things worse because we're sending hidden messages.  Doubly so for actually suggesting in a different post that it's like we're suggesting that if they were in heterosexual relationships things would have been fine.

At this point, I hope the writers just do what they want to do.  If it's not good enough for some, so be it.

I was speaking in broad terms in regards to the "bury your gays" trope. Admittedly, I did not make myself clear and it does seem as though I was singling out Bioware in that post.  I apologize.

[Sibu]

I kind off like the idea of fighting for your Happy Ending... pherphaps all romances need this treatment

[slimgrin]

Barquiel wrote...

To be fair, ME3 had several of these sad romance stories: Ereba and Charr, the turian who tells his wife to go to Sanctuary with their two daughters...at least it's entirely possible that the asari daughter survives the reaper invasion on Thessia (Thessia falls near the end of the war, Earth was harvested much longer)...headcanon territory, I guess. But I agree, it would be nice to see a happy homosexual couple for a change.

Why are you qualified to tell their writers what to do? You know, the treachery and backstabbing in Game of Thrones offends me. Think I'll e-mail Martin and set that guy straight.

[Xilizhra]

slimgrin wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

To be fair, ME3 had several of these sad romance stories: Ereba and Charr, the turian who tells his wife to go to Sanctuary with their two daughters...at least it's entirely possible that the asari daughter survives the reaper invasion on Thessia (Thessia falls near the end of the war, Earth was harvested much longer)...headcanon territory, I guess. But I agree, it would be nice to see a happy homosexual couple for a change.

Why are you qualified to tell their writers what to do? You know, the treachery and backstabbing in Game of Thrones offends me. Think I'll e-mail Martin and set that guy straight.

Judging by Allan's words, I'm guessing the intent is not to create an entire franchise based on lesbian couples being screwed over.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 30 mars 2013 - 06:38 .