173 réponses à ce sujet

[Avalon The Elf]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Avalon The Elf wrote...

New players should never be put ahead of the old ones in games like these, it's what happened to Gears Of War, what happened to The Elder Scrolls, and it's what's happening to Assassin's Creed :/

This always makes me giggle. Bethesda's changes to the Elder Scrolls haven't been for the Joe Casual Call of Duty audience everyone online loves to whine about. They're almost direct responses to things the hardcore fans complain about on their forums. They might not handle them the way those fans want them to, but that's the case.

The fact Bioware wants a new player to buy their game and might make some aspect of the game geared toward them (concepts, terms, and so on) is just as valid as catering to Forum Goer X who wants every possible relationship in the known universe open to their character.

Really, I don't care who they're trying to appeal to if the core game is solid, and the writing doesn't make me
want to send objects flying at the screen. I liked DA2 despite the fact it was rushed to hell, and want only the best for 3. No matter how many people act like it, neither DAO or ME1 were perfect.

Don't get me wrong TES is ny favorite RPG series, not a Morrowind fanboy despite it being a good game, but the removal of weapons and armor from previous games and adding a Perk respec in with dlc to please those who don't knopw how to play RPGS is just stupid 

[David7204]

How is the removal of armor and weapons from previous games stupid? And why is people able to respec a big deal? If you don't like it, don't use it. I think players are reasonable in wanting to to try out some of the perks without putting another 100 hours of grinding in.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

David7204 wrote...

How is the removal of armor and weapons from previous games stupid? And why is people able to respec a big deal? If you don't like it, don't use it. I think players are reasonable in wanting to to try out some of the perks without putting another 100 hours of grinding in.

Its one of those optional features in the game that people have trouble realizing that its well you know OPTIONAL!

Modifié par SpEcIaLRyAn, 31 mars 2013 - 02:52 .

[David7204]

Well, that works in this specific case, but not as a general case. Being completely optional doesn't justify poorly-written parts of a story or gameplay that requires a lot of work from the developer that could better spent elsewhere.

But in this case, yeah, I'm guessing that giving players the option to respec would be easy and have no impact on the story whatsoever.

[LTD]

HolyAvenger wrote...

A lot of players don't read the Codex and aren't interested in exploring the lore to that detail. You can't put important info there, only background stuff.

I also love the fact that somehow someone who spend $60-80 on this game but hasn't on the last one is, for some reason, a customer BioWare should happily f*ck over during the game. Hilarious.

Are you familiar with concept of books, TV Series, even movies that are determined to tell a continous story spreading over multiple releases and production cycles? Good luck jumping in on  Game of Thrones or Dark tower or Lord of the Rings somewhere around Season/part 3.

It makes an approach common enough among video games too. It isn't absolutely necessary to be familiar with Baldur's Gate I before playing BG2. However, you will not understand every major event and character. Would you not say it makes a very cool and ambitious way to build your characters, worlds, stories.

It is clear EA's sequels are  more and more about additions to franchise rather than additions to some epic story so in that sense there is absolutely nothing to fear. I am 100% certain that in grand scheme of things  it doesn't matter at all how unfamiliar/familiar player is with DA:O.

[Teddie Sage]

Avalon The Elf wrote...

Don't get me wrong TES is ny favorite RPG series, not a Morrowind fanboy despite it being a good game, but the removal of weapons and armor from previous games and adding a Perk respec in with dlc to please those who don't know how to play RPGS is just stupid 

Now you're just being entitled, mean and cruel to people who simply don't have your time to play thousands of hours in the same games. That sounded arrogant from you. It's about time people stop speaking for others when they only talk for themselves. The only stupidity here is that you are judging them for not playing like you do.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 31 mars 2013 - 03:30 .

[imbs]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Avalon The Elf wrote...

Don't get me wrong TES is ny favorite RPG series, not a Morrowind fanboy despite it being a good game, but the removal of weapons and armor from previous games and adding a Perk respec in with dlc to please those who don't know how to play RPGS is just stupid 

Now you're just being entitled, mean and cruel to people who simply don't have your time to play thousands of hours in the same games. That sounded arrogant from you. It's about time people stop speaking for others when they only talk for themselves. The only stupidity here is that you are judging them for not playing like you do.

that's an impressive strawman friend. Well played. Bonus points for using the word entitled.

Modifié par imbs, 31 mars 2013 - 03:48 .

[Teddie Sage]

I'm not calling him names, I'm just saying that it was mean to say such a thing. Not everyone has all the time in the world to play these games and whenever people write this kind of stuff, it makes me cringe. One of my pet peeves is players bashing other players for not playing their own way. It's like some people are just on boards, looking for trouble and trolling in serious conversations, unless I'm just reading too much between the lines. My sincere apologies if this went overboard. I have tendencies of defending this lost cause that is being kind to your fellow gamers.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 31 mars 2013 - 04:17 .

[Plaintiff]

Androme wrote...
Actually, no, it isn't. It's a sequel, a sequel takes place after the game before said sequel,

So what?

thus if you want to fully understand the events of the sequel, you should have played the game before the sequel.

Indiana Jones, Star Wars, James Bond, The Discworld Series, Harry Potter, Fable, The Elder Scrolls, Bioshock, Tomb Raider and many more franchises all disagree with you.

It's NOT ''common sense'' to babysit newcomers for the first few minutes or hell even hours of a game/movie/book whatever, just to make them acquainted with the universe and ruin the experience for people who have actually played the series through.

Yeah, you're so right, Bioware should be exclusionary dicks to new customers and deliberately obfuscate their narratives, forcing people to seek out and then play their old games. Anybody who might have been interested in Dragon Age 10 had better break into a museum and steal copies of the first six games in the series.

Except the series will never get that far because Bioware won't be able to justify making an RPG that requires presumed knowledge of a twenty-year old game, for its dwindling fanbase of ten dudes in their fifties.

I love how you totally didn't read my post, by the way.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 31 mars 2013 - 04:19 .

[Jonata]

I think that the option to respec is a gameplay balance choice. Games like Dark or Demon's Souls never let you respec and that makes the game more of a challenge even if it can make the player feel a little bit constricted by the current build he's playing (Dark Souls do not eve let you respec between the first wlakthrough and NG+ for example).

Games like Dragon's Dogma, instead, let you respec at any time, you can basically make your character from scratch again at any given point during NG+ if you collected enough Crystals. It's funny, it gives a lot of freedom, but just knowing that you can do that makes you feel a lot less invested in the main character, who basically has no features that remains during the walkthrough. A moment he's a rogue, the moment later he's a powerful mage.

I think that a game that does not feature respec in any form helps the player bond with the character because a walkthrough becomes a single, straight forward journey with no turning back.

[Teddie Sage]

Jonata wrote...

I think that a game that does not feature respec in any form helps the player bond with the character because a walkthrough becomes a single, straight forward journey with no turning back.

+1

It's all about our own personal experiences anyways. So I agree with this, bonding with our characters and playing like we want is all about freedom of choices. I'm repeating myself, but whatever.

*gives chocolates to everyone since it's Easter Day*

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 31 mars 2013 - 04:43 .

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Jonata wrote...

Games like Dragon's Dogma, instead, let you respec at any time, you can basically make your character from scratch again at any given point during NG+ if you collected enough Crystals. It's funny, it gives a lot of freedom, but just knowing that you can do that makes you feel a lot less invested in the main character, who basically has no features that remains during the walkthrough. A moment he's a rogue, the moment later he's a powerful mage.

Even during the first playthrough you can respec or change your characters appearance at any time. I appreciate being able to respec my character and alter his appearance as you can roleplay the idea that time is passing and he is getting oder or something like that. But being able to change your class and everything at any time makes me feel like I don't need to replay with a different character. I can really just try out all the classes in one go.

It makes more sense going from a fighter to a warrior or even a mystic knight. But if you go from fighter to a mage it makes me feel like this character is just a blank slate he isnt really me.

Anyway thats all I have to say on that subject.

[In Exile]

Jonata wrote...
I think that a game that does not feature respec in any form helps the player bond with the character because a walkthrough becomes a single, straight forward journey with no turning back.

Or it makes you go, oh, crap, spell X is garbage and a trap, no actually useful character would pick it. Well, time to either deal with a nerfed ability or replay 40 hours! 

[HolyAvenger]

LTD wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

A lot of players don't read the Codex and aren't interested in exploring the lore to that detail. You can't put important info there, only background stuff.

I also love the fact that somehow someone who spend $60-80 on this game but hasn't on the last one is, for some reason, a customer BioWare should happily f*ck over during the game. Hilarious.

Are you familiar with concept of books, TV Series, even movies that are determined to tell a continous story spreading over multiple releases and production cycles? Good luck jumping in on  Game of Thrones or Dark tower or Lord of the Rings somewhere around Season/part 3.

It makes an approach common enough among video games too. It isn't absolutely necessary to be familiar with Baldur's Gate I before playing BG2. However, you will not understand every major event and character. Would you not say it makes a very cool and ambitious way to build your characters, worlds, stories.

 

None of those have the cost of entry similar to a video game series. Watching a third movie costs me $10-15. Watching the two before it might cost me a couple of bucks on netflix and maybe an evening or two to watch them. Buying DAI will cost 4-6 times that. Buying and play DAO and DA2 before that? A bit more cash, and more importantly, a hundred hours of playtime. Maybe I don't have that to invest? Video games are an inherently different medium, and they follow different rules.  

I think you're barking up the wrong track anyway. I think DAI will have plenty of nods, sidequests and characters that players of the first two will appreciate and the new players won't get. ME3 did. DA2 did. 

Its just the massive, plot-central characters and storylines will need to be told in such a way that even new players feel invested and engaged.


 am

[Cainhurst Crow]

Just because they make the games friendlier to new players doesn't mean they're going to dumb it down and have no carry over events. Besides, it's going to be a new character, and a new setting, with even a new conflict. So why, pretell, should this new character somehow require you to have played the other titles in order to understand their stories being told?

[David7204]

One of the most painfully stupid things I've heard on this forum is that the dialogue in ME 3 was cut down to 'appeal' to new players. As if three whole options is intimidating to people who don't generally play RPGs or something.

Modifié par David7204, 31 mars 2013 - 05:46 .

[HolyAvenger]

David7204 wrote...

One of the most painfully stupid things I've heard on this forum is that the dialogue in ME 3 was cut down to 'appeal' to new players. As if three whole options is intimidating to people who don't generally play RPGs or something.

 

People who thought there was an immense difference between 3 options and 2, in ME, had clearly never played ME1-2 while choosing the middle option. That generally defaulted to the paragon or renegade dialogue anyway. It was a false choice.

DA2 at least did 3 conversation options correctly.

[Salaya]

DA2 and ME3 completely mined my trust to Bioware. This interview just corroborates all the bad feelings I have with Inquisition. I sincerely doubt I would ever buy a game from Bioware again.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Salaya wrote...

DA2 and ME3 completely mined my trust to Bioware. This interview just corroborates all the bad feelings I have with Inquisition. I sincerely doubt I would ever buy a game from Bioware again.

Than please, by all means, do not.

But do please also not linger here, for there is nothing more annoying than someone who will say ad nauseum how bad something is without ever having tried it themselves. It is on par and as bad as the people who proclaim that something will be "teh greetast thang evah" when they haven't even gotten a trailer to watch for it.

I maintain neutrality as the best approach myself, since you can judge the product itself, instead of your own preconcieved notions of the product.

[sarnokh]

Ok, in hindsight I see the topic "Freedom VS Secturiy", and while in RL this is an idea I think of relatively often, in the game it never dawned to me to be the case, somehow. Either I was dense, or it was just badly presented.

The bottom line in DA2 for me was, the *my* influence, the influence of Hawke, was zilch. I could not influence the Templars, the Chantry, the Mages, anyone. Whatever I did, all turned out the same anyway. I was merely witnessing events. And that felt just wrong in a video game, where I expect to play a person with impact.

Androme wrote...

 ''but we also have to keep in mind
people who are coming to Dragon Age III fresh, who have no previous
experience. That’s the biggest thing we have to concern ourselves
with.''
___

*facepalm*

I bet it's gonna be like the
first 3-4 minutes of ME3 where I noticed on my first playthrough that
they catered to people who had just gone to gamestop and picked up ME3,
put the disc in their xbox and started playing, with no idea as to what
to expect from the game. Seriously if somebody picks up a game called:
''Mass Effect >> 3 <<''  then it should be their fault if
they don't understand anything about the game, stop catering to people
who doesn't play the series through.

Hm, I can not share that perspective. I had used my ME1+2 savegames playing ME3, and the game was so FULL of referrences, so full of people and events recurring to ME1+2, that I wondered how anyone could play ME3 without having played the previous games!

Modifié par sarnokh, 31 mars 2013 - 06:27 .

[LadyJaneGrey]

Grayson must have caught Gaider in a particularly good mood. I was expecting more snark.

[Captain Crash]

Certainly an interesting read. Seems the writing staff have taken onboard a lot of feedback and want to hammer on direction. I hope the game play directions are just as positive =)

[Salaya]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Salaya wrote...
Some childish misleads

Than please, by all means, do not.

But do please also not linger here, for there is nothing more annoying than someone who will say ad nauseum how bad something is without ever having tried it themselves. It is on par and as bad as the people who proclaim that something will be "teh greetast thang evah" when they haven't even gotten a trailer to watch for it.

I maintain neutrality as the best approach myself, since you can judge the product itself, instead of your own preconcieved notions of the product.

I never said it was bad. I said that the interview corrobarates my bad  feelings. Also, I'm not judging the game with preconcieved notions, but with the information devs, writers and some other people that actually works in that product gives away to the community.

If the game comes out and then it results in something different than my thoughts, based on valid information from a reliable source, have imagined, I would the first to say that my feelings were wrong.

But, from what we know, I can honestly say that I don't like a single aspect of this new DA.

[Sanunes]

sarnokh wrote...
Hm, I can not share that perspective. I had used my ME1+2 savegames playing ME3, and the game was so FULL of referrences, so full of people and events recurring to ME1+2, that I wondered how anyone could play ME3 without having played the previous games!

I think the problem is people were expecting that more of their choices had a bigger impact instead of just just adding flavor to the game.

[Avalon The Elf]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Avalon The Elf wrote...

Don't get me wrong TES is ny favorite RPG series, not a Morrowind fanboy despite it being a good game, but the removal of weapons and armor from previous games and adding a Perk respec in with dlc to please those who don't know how to play RPGS is just stupid 

Now you're just being entitled, mean and cruel to people who simply don't have your time to play thousands of hours in the same games. That sounded arrogant from you. It's about time people stop speaking for others when they only talk for themselves. The only stupidity here is that you are judging them for not playing like you do.

On the Bethesda forums all there is was complaints about perk respec being added in from new players who started with Skyrim and that they didn't know what perks did so they didn't want them afterward. Meanwhile things that relate to lore in the game like Werebears being the main Lycanthrope population in Skyrim go fully ignored despiite multiple threads from hardcore players who've played all the games wanting it while new players mock it saying we should have Werefurniture and such. Oh sure we got Werebears. In Solsthiem, not the Skyrim mainland and you can't even play as one. They are somewhat getting their act together though. The latest patch fixes a ton of bugs. And yeah damn right i am intitled. I've been with TES since Arena and i should be treated better then players who just started. I've spent more money on the series than they have. It's just ike with Gears of War 3. The first 2 had a nice balanced multiplayer but in 3 they add the Noobtube Sawedoff Shotgun which is basicly an instant kill, for awhile you could be across the map and still die from a shot. The people who don't know how to play games like GOW which are COD fanboys are treated better than the hardcore players. And requests of the newest olayers are listened to by Bethesda when our requests aren't even answered. And the lies, oh the lies. Before Skyrim came out we were told we could challenge NPCS to lawful duels. Can't. We were told we could sabotage the economy for personal gain. Can't. We were told that if an NPC dies then a family member will take over his shop or what have you. Only partly true as some NPCS live alone and no one inherits the shop and sometimes they remain empty. Casuals killed gaming. And the hardcore players are neglected because of it