12924 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

But doesn't the whole reputation stuff come only into play when you didn't get enough of the points you can collect with them? AFAIR these depend on whether
- the Council has been saved in ME1

Not for me. It doesn't make a difference. I've never saved the council in ME1
 

- the VS was your LI and you cheated on them/confessed it

Not sure about that
 

- Kirrahe or Thane are alive to save the dalatress

Makes no difference
 

- you were nice to them on Mars

again it makes no difference
 

- you visited them in the hospital or not when they were awake

makes no difference.
 

I seem to remember that if you fail to do good in any of these points, only then will the reputation check come into play at all. If you have 4 points or more, the VS will automatically side with you, if below, reputation check. So I guess you could still fail when you did all the bad stuff

What makes the difference is Shepard using the interrupt and then choosing the red or blue dialogue on the left. Doing this will cause Ashley/Kaidan to stand down.

If the player chooses to treat Ashley/Kaidan badly on Mars and not visit them in the hospital, they will not join Shepard on the Normandy after the coup even though Shepard got them to lower their weapon.

If the player is nice on Mars and visit Ashley/Kaidan 3 times in the hospital and gives them the booze or poetry book, they can still be shot. It all depends on if the player uses the interrupt and chooses the dialogue on the left.

I did a playthrough with my reputation bar just below 1 full bar and was able to convince Ashley to lower her weapon. All I did was use the interrupt and choose the blue or red dialogue on the left.

[cap and gown]

Mike, it would appear, all appearance to the contrary, that you have not actually seen every variation possible in the Citadel Coup. Surprised me since I thought you had seen it all.  If you save the Council in ME1 (something you say you have never done) and visit the VS in the hospital, you do not need to take the interrupt and the VS will still automatically back down without a persuasion check even showing up.

[themikefest]

Mike, it would appear, all appearance to the contrary, that you have not actually seen every variation possible in the Citadel Coup. Surprised me since I thought you had seen it all.  If you save the Council in ME1 (something you say you have never done) and visit the VS in the hospital, you do not need to take the interrupt and the VS will still automatically back down without a persuasion check even showing up.

The only times I haven't used the interrupt was to have Ashley/Kaidan shot. When I didn't use the interrupt, I got no red or blue dialogue on the left. Every time I used the interrupt, I got the red or blue dialogue on the left

[olnorton]

When I didn't use the interrupt, I got no red or blue dialogue on the left. Every time I used the interrupt, I got the red or blue dialogue on the left

Well in this last no import game, I had visited Kaidan in hospital.
Got the interrupts, but didn't use them.
I still got the blue dialogue (and possibly the red, I can't remember), I just didn't use it.
I wanted to just tell him like it was and see if he made the right decision.
Garrus decided he probably wasn't going to and shot him.
I don't know where my reputation bar was.

[fraggle]

Mike, it would appear, all appearance to the contrary, that you have not actually seen every variation possible in the Citadel Coup. Surprised me since I thought you had seen it all.  If you save the Council in ME1 (something you say you have never done) and visit the VS in the hospital, you do not need to take the interrupt and the VS will still automatically back down without a persuasion check even showing up.

 

I didn't save the Council in my last playthrough, did not use the Paragon interrupt to lower my team's weapons, and still Kaidan also sided with me right away.

It seems it does takes these 4 points you can collect into account. I have to make a calculation later when I have more time (should be on my way to work now ) what I exactly did last time to get these points.

[Natureguy85]

Well, that's James He just cares for certain things way too much and just wants to help (you can clearly see how much Earth means to him when talking to him at the FOB or during the Citadel DLC visit when he shows the tattoo), and he's hotheaded, brash, but he also knows that he was wrong and admits it. I liked that.

It almost sounds like you didn't give him a chance (sorry if you did). And I don't understand what it has to do with Ash/Kaidan at least being around since ME1... so, he has no rights to be pushed into the N7 role because he's the "new guy"?

I'm not sure btw what it takes to rise in rank and get recommendations etc, but this is no real military, it's fictional. James got it because of what he did on Fehl Prime, got promoted for it, so we can at least judge a bit from there what it takes to get something like this.

 

About the video... come on, this scene was just in there to have some fun. Maybe playing with why would you let James do it when you have Tali (if she's alive)? Since he is a soldier, a grunt, I found it very funny to have them show this scene, but then he's actually still capable of doing it, he has no trouble dealing with techy stuff when he's assigned to such things at all. So, even though he comes across as the video says, he's far from it. He is capable. And he did well in Paragon Lost.

 

The N7 program thing... I took it as the whole process, it's clear he doesn't start directly as N7 candidate, but I took it as the way to actually get there.

(btw, if you have much more to say on James, it might be best if we shift this conversation to his thread, I don't want to continue posting off-topic here )

 

 

Well that's cool. I didn't play Citadel.

 

I didn't have much reason to give James a chance, though I did take him on some missions. He is nice on first meeting but makes me want to smack him or throw him out the airlock with the next few interactions.

 

It's not that James is the new guy per se; it's that I have no basis to think he's an especially good soldier that should follow in Shepard's footsteps. The first game gave us Shepard's war record choice that told us why Shepard was awesome and we got to hear 3 powerful people talk about it at the start of the game.

 

Oh I don't judge James too harshly on that scene, but it highlights that he's just a meathead. Sure, there's definitely use for people like that in a war. I don't care about or count paragon lost. It's side media and, from the bit I saw of it, is horribly inconsistent with the games. All that matters of that event is what James mentions in the games.

[AlanC9]

The only times I haven't used the interrupt was to have Ashley/Kaidan shot. When I didn't use the interrupt, I got no red or blue dialogue on the left. Every time I used the interrupt, I got the red or blue dialogue on the left

That's because of the point scale. See the wiki page:

 

Looks like you just happened to hit the breakpoint where hitting the interrupt gets you to zero and allows the dialogue check. Note that if you get the dialogue check without taking the interrupt, Ash's line before the check is "Lowering your weapon would really help your case here," but if you did take the interrupt, her line is "Stand down. You don't want to get shot by your own marine."

 

I suppose there's some sort of lesson here about jumping and conclusions.

[olnorton]

That's because of the point scale. See the wiki page:

Those charts take all the magic out of it.
I prefer to go in guns blazing, & see what happens.

[fraggle]

I didn't have much reason to give James a chance, though I did take him on some missions.

 

Oh I don't judge James too harshly on that scene, but it highlights that he's just a meathead. Sure, there's definitely use for people like that in a war. I don't care about or count paragon lost. It's side media and, from the bit I saw of it, is horribly inconsistent with the games. All that matters of that event is what James mentions in the games.

 

Okay, fair enough for the first point.

 

He's not just a meathead, but I guess we can just agree to disagree here

 

Note that if you get the dialogue check without taking the interrupt, Ash's line before the check is "Lowering your weapon would really help your case here," but if you did take the interrupt, her line is "Stand down. You don't want to get shot by your own marine."

 

Cool, didn't know that dialogue variation.

 

I had exactly 4 points according to that chart.

 

@olnorton I always go in blind for the first time playing it, after that I look into stuff like that, it's interesting I found it especially interesting for Rannoch, as in the second playthrough I couldn't broker peace and I thought I had done the same as last time. Surprising that one wrong choice I made in ME2 led to me not being able to broker peace

[themikefest]

That's because of the point scale. See the wiki page:

 

Looks like you just happened to hit the breakpoint where hitting the interrupt gets you to zero and allows the dialogue check. Note that if you get the dialogue check without taking the interrupt, Ash's line before the check is "Lowering your weapon would really help your case here," but if you did take the interrupt, her line is "Stand down. You don't want to get shot by your own marine."

 

I suppose there's some sort of lesson here about jumping and conclusions.

According to that chart, Ashley/Kaidan should never of lowered their weapon with my score being at -1, but Ashley did lower her weapon and not get shot.

 

I never saved the council   -1

I treated them like crap on Mars  -1

If playing as a paragon, weapons are lowered when using the interrupt  +1

If playing as a renegade, weapons are not lowered when using the interrupt   0

I have had the salarian councilor dead, though I don't recall if she was dead when I didn't see Ashley in the hospital which would've given me  -2

 

Since my score is below zero, Ashley/Kaidan will not  stand down according to that chart leading to them being shot. That didn't happened for me.  Since I never saw Ashley in the hospital, I didn't receive 2 points. And because of that, she will not join Shepard on the Normandy.

[AlanC9]

Those charts take all the magic out of it.I prefer to go in guns blazing, & see what happens.

Me too. I never look at that stuff until, say, the fifth playthrough, when I'm trying to see things I haven't seen in my normal play. I was looking at that chart to find a way to fail. I had to use a save editor to get Shep's rep low enough to fail the Charm check. I could have just been more of a jerk to Ash and got no check at all, but I wanted it to be her fault

[AlanC9]

According to that chart, Ashley/Kaidan should never of lowered their weapon with my score being at -1, but Ashley did lower her weapon and not get shot.

I never saved the council -1
I treated them like crap on Mars -1
If playing as a paragon, weapons are lowered when using the interrupt +1
If playing as a renegade, weapons are not lowered when using the interrupt 0
I have had the salarian councilor dead, though I don't recall if she was dead when I didn't see Ashley in the hospital which would've given me -2

Since my score is below zero, Ashley/Kaidan will not stand down according to that chart leading to them being shot. That didn't happened for me. Since I never saw Ashley in the hospital, I didn't receive 2 points. And because of that, she will not join Shepard on the Normandy.

It's certainly possible that there's something wrong with that chart. Can't correct it without data that everyone can see. Gibbed's editor or maybe ME3Explorer would help if we could track down the appropriate bools and ints. I don't know if anyone has looked into them yet.

But the italed makes me wonder what your score with Ash really was.

 

Edit: had a chance to do a little checking. Int variable 10314 is identified as Ashley's friend variable A (there's also a variable B;  my guess is that variable B is used after she joins the squad). I found this set to 4 in the save where I edited the P/R value to always blow the check with her. Setting it to 0 did not have any effect on whether I could get the P/R check -- I always got to make the check, whether or not the interrupt was taken. However, setting it to zero means that Ashley won't join on the Normandy. So apparently the hospital visits are incrementing two separate variables.

 

Edit again: Take a look at this dump (search for "Damn it, Cerberus hit the shuttle") Haven't worked through the logic yet myself.

[olnorton]

I don't have the ME2 Kasumi DLC, so I edited her into my saved game.



She saved the Hanar\Drell homeworld for me, & is helping with the crucible.
She's kinda cute (except for the purple lip thing) so I might get the DLC for my next ME2 run.

[birefringent]

Request denied.

[cap and gown]

She's kinda cute (except for the purple lip thing) so I might get the DLC for my next ME2 run.

 

Kasumi is adorable. Her loyalty mission is fun and there is no way I could play ME2 without the Locust. Her mission is often the first one I do after Freedom's progress just so I can get that gun. If you have her destroy Keiji's greybox she will have an inside joke about the Locust during the Hanar Diplomacy mission in ME3. She says "Reapers aren't humans. I can't infiltrate a Reaper party and steal an "I win" bomb." This is pretty clearly a reference to the Donovan Hock party and the Locust.

[olnorton]

If you have her destroy Keiji's greybox she will have an inside joke about the Locust during the Hanar Diplomacy mission in ME3.

Gibbed has options for kept or destroyed grey box.
I didn't know what it meant so I left it blank.
I will get the DLC & play ME2 as soon as I've finished saving the galaxy.

[themikefest]

Gibbed has options for kept or destroyed grey box.
I didn't know what it meant so I left it blank.
I will get the DLC & play ME2 as soon as I've finished saving the galaxy.

If you do her loyalty mission before recruiting Garrus, one of the npc's will mention Archangel, and if its done after recruiting Garrus, the line of dialogue is slightly different.

 

I believe there is a line of dialogue mentioning Zaeed's mission depending if it was done before doing Kasumi's loyalty mission. I might be wrong about that.

[Melbella]

If you do her loyalty mission before recruiting Garrus, one of the npc's will mention Archangel, and if its done after recruiting Garrus, the line of dialogue is slightly different.
 
I believe there is a line of dialogue mentioning Zaeed's mission depending if it was done before doing Kasumi's loyalty mission. I might be wrong about that.

Yeah, I think someone mentions Vido if he's dead but not if he's still alive.

[AlanC9]

Gibbed has options for kept or destroyed grey box.I didn't know what it meant so I left it blank.I will get the DLC & play ME2 as soon as I've finished saving the galaxy.

Sometimes Bio sets a variable that they decided not to do anything with. AFAIK having sex with Allers doesn't have any effect in the game, for instance.

[Jukaga]

Sometimes Bio sets a variable that they decided not to do anything with. AFAIK having sex with Allers doesn't have any effect in the game, for instance.

 

 

I'm pretty sure it counts as a 'cheat' on a LI.

[AlanC9]

I'm pretty sure it counts as a 'cheat' on a LI.

I don't see how it could for most of them -- you can't get the option if you've locked-in with an ME3 LI, since Allers' dialogue is different. OTOH, it might break up a pre-existing romance with Liara; there is a vid kicking around with dialogue for a breakup. I'll try and test this with a save editor.

[cap and gown]

I don't see how it could for most of them -- you can't get the option if you've locked-in with an ME3 LI, since Allers' dialogue is different. OTOH, it might break up a pre-existing romance with Liara; there is a vid kicking around with dialogue for a breakup. I'll try and test this with a save editor.

 

The problem with Liara is that she is a tad bit scizoid as to what counts as cheating. In one playthrough I romanced Liara in ME1, did LotSB in ME2 where I reunited with Liara, promised her little blue babies, etc., then went on to romance Thane. In ME3 I told Liara in our initial dialogue I wanted to continue our romance, then met Thane in the hospital and jumped his bones. The next time I saw Liara she told me she knew about Thane and that she didn't have time for games. Then, after the next mission, Liara was sitting on my lap and kissing me.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, I just got something that weird with Liara and Allers. If Shepard gets with Allers before locking in the Liara relationship,. the lock-in conversation with Liara happens normally and sets the romance, but Liara gives the breakup convo the moment you talk to her again on the Normandy. I guess she didn't look at those surveillance vids of Shepard's cabin until later? The relationship flag stays set, so I figure this isn't actually a breakup even though it sounds like one.

AFAIK this is only a Liara thing. Other LIs don't seem to care, or maybe they don't know.

It's kind of funny, actually -- I can see that they might have once had a more complicated romance mechanism that got cut, but usually when such a cut happens they've already finished primary VO if they've recorded anything at all, so we end up with the lines even though they're never spoken in the game. I haven't heard of any such lines surfacing. Maybe the cut happened earlier and Liara's writer didn't read the memo?

[cap and gown]

Another problem I found with Liara is that if you tell her in LotSB that you just want to be friends (i.e. break off the romance) that does not carry over to ME3. Instead, you still get the "do you want to continue the romance" dialogue. That means you have to put up with Ali Hillis laying a massive guilt trip on you not once, but twice!

[Jukaga]

Finally been playing Hal in ME3 over the last couple of days. Done up to the coup, currently at the Monastery. I've been running missions exclusively with James and Javik except for the few times you are forced to take Liara and I've heard several conversations that I've never heard before. J&J have some great banter together. It makes sense RP wise to take those two, they are the only two without a real job to do on the ship. Garrus is weapons officer, Liara is shadow brokering and dabbling at Prothean physics, EDI is the ship's AI.