I love DW
its my favorite but i havent played to far with my rogue yet
need better enemy holding tho. i did a duel wielding warrior and now working on two handed one.
i like champion and i going to get reaver this play around, but i dont like templer one it seems pointless if you have a mage in the group
Dev Question: Warrior class
Débuté par
Victor Wachter
, janv. 15 2010 01:30
Retour en haut
#377
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 01:00
Razenove
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I've only played as a Shield tank Warrior (a few times in fact) so my feedback will be limited to that tree:
First off - Shield Warriors (when properly geared up) look awesome. Plate is by far the best looking armour in the game.
Ability-wise, Shield Bash, Shield Pummel and Overpower are all pretty good for the control they can give a tank over the enemies, Assualt could do with a increase in overall damage considering it's the only "pure" damage ability available. On that note, one or two more offensive abilities would improve the experience - specifically something capable of hitting multiple opponents, and something high-cost high-damage we can use at the end of fights, preferably a single-hit attack which is something Shield Warriors don't have. Also, a single-target, low-cost Taunt ability would greatly help increase the tanking "feel"; having to blow Taunt on one enemy who's wandered off and needs to be grabbed immediately feels a bit clunky.
As far as underpowered talents go, Shield Defence and Shield Cover both become obsolete once Shield Wall is obtained with Shield Expertise and Shield Mastery. That's two talents that become unused not too far into the game, and a third (Shield Balance) which is used to buff Shield Defence. Shield Block and Shield Tactics are also talents that could do with some tuning up - the premise behind them is good, but it's a tad unnecessary to have two talents dedicated to it when Shield Tactics would just cover it by itself - perhaps some physical resistance buff with a shield equipped or something would make the talents feel a bit less underwhelming.
Regarding talents in general, the weapon limitations for each of the trees really cuts off some interesting combinations. For example, Sunder Arms and Sunder Armour would be great tools for a Shield Warrior to have, especially in a tank-and-3-ranged group set-up. Having to switch to a two-hander to use them, however, is extremely dangerous for a tank. Considering those abilities do no damage, allowing their use with a one-handed weapon shouldn't be overpowered.
The Warrior talents themselves seem to be pretty well done and balanced, and I can't think of any changes that would greatly benefit the class without being overpowered.
Specialisations - as a Shield Warrior, the Specialisations I'm familiar with are Champion and Templar. Champion seems to be in a pretty good place, but the Templar tree doesn't seem as effective against Mages as it's name would imply. Holy Smite could do with a damage increase against mana users, and in general the Specialisation doesn't do much against Mages in terms of damage or control, as you would expect a Templar to do.
First off - Shield Warriors (when properly geared up) look awesome. Plate is by far the best looking armour in the game.
Ability-wise, Shield Bash, Shield Pummel and Overpower are all pretty good for the control they can give a tank over the enemies, Assualt could do with a increase in overall damage considering it's the only "pure" damage ability available. On that note, one or two more offensive abilities would improve the experience - specifically something capable of hitting multiple opponents, and something high-cost high-damage we can use at the end of fights, preferably a single-hit attack which is something Shield Warriors don't have. Also, a single-target, low-cost Taunt ability would greatly help increase the tanking "feel"; having to blow Taunt on one enemy who's wandered off and needs to be grabbed immediately feels a bit clunky.
As far as underpowered talents go, Shield Defence and Shield Cover both become obsolete once Shield Wall is obtained with Shield Expertise and Shield Mastery. That's two talents that become unused not too far into the game, and a third (Shield Balance) which is used to buff Shield Defence. Shield Block and Shield Tactics are also talents that could do with some tuning up - the premise behind them is good, but it's a tad unnecessary to have two talents dedicated to it when Shield Tactics would just cover it by itself - perhaps some physical resistance buff with a shield equipped or something would make the talents feel a bit less underwhelming.
Regarding talents in general, the weapon limitations for each of the trees really cuts off some interesting combinations. For example, Sunder Arms and Sunder Armour would be great tools for a Shield Warrior to have, especially in a tank-and-3-ranged group set-up. Having to switch to a two-hander to use them, however, is extremely dangerous for a tank. Considering those abilities do no damage, allowing their use with a one-handed weapon shouldn't be overpowered.
The Warrior talents themselves seem to be pretty well done and balanced, and I can't think of any changes that would greatly benefit the class without being overpowered.
Specialisations - as a Shield Warrior, the Specialisations I'm familiar with are Champion and Templar. Champion seems to be in a pretty good place, but the Templar tree doesn't seem as effective against Mages as it's name would imply. Holy Smite could do with a damage increase against mana users, and in general the Specialisation doesn't do much against Mages in terms of damage or control, as you would expect a Templar to do.
Modifié par Razenove, 24 janvier 2010 - 01:01 .
#378
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 01:57
totertot
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Warrior is my least favorite class to play. It seems to have less "things to do" while you fight, less abilities to activate in the warrior skill trees. However, it seems that they get the best and most varied (looks-wise) armor. I do like how you can pick to dual wield, sword and shield, or 2 handed swords; it adds to the variety of attacks and abilities.
Modifié par totertot, 24 janvier 2010 - 01:59 .
#379
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 02:23
EvilIguana966
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The main imbalance inherent to the warrior class is the weakness of the archery and two handed skill trees compared to shield and dual wield styles. Archery can be expected to be slightly weaker damage wise than DW/2H due to the ability to use it from range, but the difference just ends up being too significant for archery to be a worthwhile choice. A big help would be the ability to use runes and damage spells on ranged weapons.
The two handed tree's problems all stem from how slow the attack speed is on two handed weapons. Aside from these weapons just not having a high enough base damage and stat multiplier, big, slow, powerful hits ultimately result in wasted damage potential. The worst part is that elemental damage from runes and spells does not vary with attack speed, which severely handicaps slower weapons.
The two handed tree's problems all stem from how slow the attack speed is on two handed weapons. Aside from these weapons just not having a high enough base damage and stat multiplier, big, slow, powerful hits ultimately result in wasted damage potential. The worst part is that elemental damage from runes and spells does not vary with attack speed, which severely handicaps slower weapons.
#380
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 03:23
TanithAeyrs
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my playstyle seems to favor rogues over warriors, that being said I did my first playthrough on hard with a dual wield warrior (human noble) and I had a great time. My first two playthroughs were on normal (DW rogue and mage). I have a hard time keeping Sten and Ohgren alive as 2H without Wynne constantly healing them. They just don't do enough damage to make up for the lack of a shield until very late in the game. Late in the game I do like 2H after you have had time to develop them, DW warriors even beat sword and shield warriors in the early game because they take out enemies faster. Even poor Alistair is not very useful until you have leveled him up a few times.
#381
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 03:54
icarusredeemed
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I find it hard to believe people are enjoying the Shield talents, they are near usless when compared to Dual Wield...but I digress...
What do you like and dislike about the Warrior?
I like melee classes in general when I play RPGs, the ability to wear heavy armor while dealing out damage is quite satisfying. What I disliked is perhaps there were no defensive abilities per say unless you were silly enough to pick the Shield talents, and those were not very good anyway.
[/list]Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Warrior?
The aforementioned Sword and Board talens (really just Board talents) were worthless. Comparing Alistair and my Duel Wielding warrior, I had a much higher defense stat and we both had comparable armor. He did little to no damage and could not keep threat on anything without having to resort to Taunt spamming. In effect, my damage dealer became by default my tank, and I took less damage than him and managed to keep aggro and kill things much quicker.
What are your favorite Warrior specializations? What are your least favorite?
Dual Wield by far destroys the other two trees, in the early game it is a hard tree to go with, but come mid-game and end game, nothing else can compare. The Shield line as I said...I really couldn't get over how bad they were. The stuns are somewhat useful, but they had such long cooldown times, they were near worthless. The defensive abilities were not that great either, as I said before, even with those on constantly, my "tank" had worse defense than my dpser.
What are your favorite Warrior talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Honestly none of them were that great, Champion was probably the most useful although I did enjoy the Berserker ability for Berserkers, it really made a difference in damage. Templar is useless, mages die so quickly, if you are not focusing on them in the beginning of the battle you need your head examined. The ability to mana drain is silly, my foe is dead before I can drain its mana pool so what is the point? Reaver was ok, but again, the special abilities were not something I would use often, the only abilities I ever used on a regular basis was Berserk and the battle cry that added attack and defense.
[/list]
What do you like and dislike about the Warrior?
I like melee classes in general when I play RPGs, the ability to wear heavy armor while dealing out damage is quite satisfying. What I disliked is perhaps there were no defensive abilities per say unless you were silly enough to pick the Shield talents, and those were not very good anyway.
[/list]Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Warrior?
The aforementioned Sword and Board talens (really just Board talents) were worthless. Comparing Alistair and my Duel Wielding warrior, I had a much higher defense stat and we both had comparable armor. He did little to no damage and could not keep threat on anything without having to resort to Taunt spamming. In effect, my damage dealer became by default my tank, and I took less damage than him and managed to keep aggro and kill things much quicker.
What are your favorite Warrior specializations? What are your least favorite?
Dual Wield by far destroys the other two trees, in the early game it is a hard tree to go with, but come mid-game and end game, nothing else can compare. The Shield line as I said...I really couldn't get over how bad they were. The stuns are somewhat useful, but they had such long cooldown times, they were near worthless. The defensive abilities were not that great either, as I said before, even with those on constantly, my "tank" had worse defense than my dpser.
What are your favorite Warrior talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Honestly none of them were that great, Champion was probably the most useful although I did enjoy the Berserker ability for Berserkers, it really made a difference in damage. Templar is useless, mages die so quickly, if you are not focusing on them in the beginning of the battle you need your head examined. The ability to mana drain is silly, my foe is dead before I can drain its mana pool so what is the point? Reaver was ok, but again, the special abilities were not something I would use often, the only abilities I ever used on a regular basis was Berserk and the battle cry that added attack and defense.
[/list]
#382
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 06:14
Dlokir
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This would not let much to rogues. To counter balance 2W and Archer could be given only to rogues but I get that it will hurt many players that a warrior cannot use 2 weapons or long range.I do not like that warriors cannot open locked chests. If a warrior can learn to steal, trap, and poison, why can't he learn to lockpick? Or at least break the damn things.
Myself I like how DAO classes design tried fit better the constraints of 4 PC parties:
- Mage and cleric are merged.
- Cleric role has been tune down a lot through a great healing potion system (including crafting them) well ballanced from any point of view.
- Rogues don't have much of their own but still play an important role with more skills than other classes and few special abilities (sneak, backstabbing and lockpick) and can play sort of warrior roles.
- Then warriors are the buffer class, less required than the two other but still two party slots for them. And they get the aggro management, all possible fighting style and only warriors have some fighting skills dedicated to Str.
Perhaps, to make party composition even softer without to change deeply all classes, stealing could replace lockpick ie lockpick moved to skills and stealing to rogues talents. For most players it will make the party composition more soft by allowing use no rogues with some penalty (no sneaking, no disarm, no stealing, some attributes points to lost into Cun for having better lockpick efficiency without a rogue in party).
The archer talent tree for warriors seemed sort of silly. Warrior
specializations (and their other basic talents) really didn't do much
to support ranged combat. Archer is an iconic rogue job for a
reason.
Archer is a bit a failure with rogue or warrior, and it matches even less rogues than warriors because sneak and backstabing are the rogue features in fights and mean nothing with Archer. The only thing that makes archer more suited to rogues is the ranger specialization.
EDIT: Wooo the dev question already opened for rogues and I didn't make my post for warriors feedback, dam I regret all my lost time into little spaming here! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]
Modifié par Dlokir, 24 janvier 2010 - 06:16 .
#383
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 07:59
spernus
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I'll be brief since I want to give feedback on rogues as well.
- Archer doesn't fit the warrior class at all,so it should be scrapped.An heavily armored class shouldn't be fighting at range in a videogame,just like it didn't really work for paladin to be ranged healer since they couldn't melee or tank in raid at a time.
- Tanking is boring,similar to a feral druid tank in wow currently.There's not enough active ability needed and too much emphasis on passive talents.It's too easy to keep mobs on you so:
- aoe abilities should be needed to keep generating aggro,along with taunt and heavy/massive armor.Make it so the tank need a good balance of dodge,blocking and pure damage absortion to be effective.A tank who only dodge attacks or is invulnerable to attacks should lose aggro,which would diminish the cheesing of force field.
- Scrap most of the shield defense talents,you only need 1 to get the job done.Instead,add an active talent which increase your chance to block for x seconds.Give us a shield wall which count as a "get out of jail" card to give you a chance to survive a sloppy pull or fight for 5-6 seconds.
- A charge ability would be nice,since it would definitively make the class more fun to play instead of slowly running toward archers or mages nuking you.
- The more active talents you give to a warrior,the more skillfull it would be to play and thus rewarding.It's going to be a matter of charging the right opponent,or having good rotation to keep aggro or gearing right(and it's not hard to set up tactics for an AI tank as well).Tanks are way too simplistic and it's not fun playing one.
- If the warrior is to have a dual wield spec,it should differ from the rogue.The basic of dual wield can be the same,but the warrior should have unique talents and the fact that he take more damage because of less dodging potential or stealth should be taken under consideration.
- 2 arms dps warrior should have more aoe abilities.They have the big weapons and the reach+slow attack speed,so they have to make it count.They would have an easier time surviving with more knockback and they should be the melee who specialize in aoe attack.
- Archer doesn't fit the warrior class at all,so it should be scrapped.An heavily armored class shouldn't be fighting at range in a videogame,just like it didn't really work for paladin to be ranged healer since they couldn't melee or tank in raid at a time.
- Tanking is boring,similar to a feral druid tank in wow currently.There's not enough active ability needed and too much emphasis on passive talents.It's too easy to keep mobs on you so:
- aoe abilities should be needed to keep generating aggro,along with taunt and heavy/massive armor.Make it so the tank need a good balance of dodge,blocking and pure damage absortion to be effective.A tank who only dodge attacks or is invulnerable to attacks should lose aggro,which would diminish the cheesing of force field.
- Scrap most of the shield defense talents,you only need 1 to get the job done.Instead,add an active talent which increase your chance to block for x seconds.Give us a shield wall which count as a "get out of jail" card to give you a chance to survive a sloppy pull or fight for 5-6 seconds.
- A charge ability would be nice,since it would definitively make the class more fun to play instead of slowly running toward archers or mages nuking you.
- The more active talents you give to a warrior,the more skillfull it would be to play and thus rewarding.It's going to be a matter of charging the right opponent,or having good rotation to keep aggro or gearing right(and it's not hard to set up tactics for an AI tank as well).Tanks are way too simplistic and it's not fun playing one.
- If the warrior is to have a dual wield spec,it should differ from the rogue.The basic of dual wield can be the same,but the warrior should have unique talents and the fact that he take more damage because of less dodging potential or stealth should be taken under consideration.
- 2 arms dps warrior should have more aoe abilities.They have the big weapons and the reach+slow attack speed,so they have to make it count.They would have an easier time surviving with more knockback and they should be the melee who specialize in aoe attack.
#384
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 08:19
Dlokir
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Thanks this thread made me focus much more on warriors and my current replay, this time with a 2H warrior is so fun!
Like:
Underpowered:
Favorite Warrior specializations:
Favorite Warrior talent trees:
The questionary doesn't ask enough to suggestions of improvement. I understand players aren't game designers and that's my point of view too. Also if someone could wanted use the oportunity to include suggestions, it's possible and I did it few times. But it's still not cool that there isn't a question like what talents that could be added, or any question like that.
R:Q: What do you like and dislike about the Warrior?
Like:
- 2H tree, I like the speed too, and I feel too many players think dps and tanking only matter in fights.
- Overall potion system including from crafting and economic point of view. Very well ballanced in every aspect and make warriors more independent.
- That tanking is only mid tanking making fights more interesting.
- S&S tree, like that str/dex/sword/shield mid tank warrior. If weapon switching didn't involve so many troubles that would be even better.
- The choices of heavy armors for warriors with a nice Str.
- Fatalies and even more the numerous finishing hits that 2H trigger often against any type of opponent.
- The complex Taunt and anti taunt system, even if perhaps some tuning could be done.
- Archer not adapted well to many warrior talents, in particular taunts talents involving short range, but not only.
- Archer and 2W totally similar than for rogues.
- That lockpicking can't be done by warriors (and all classes), perhaps Stealing and Lockpick could be switch.
- That records include only damages and number of killed. I think that PC records should not only include damages and number of killed but should include some elements like enemy discarded time, hits received (with damages or not), healing done including with potions, and certainly more. Sure many players will disagree with the final formula but that would help quote better that it's not only about damages.
- Underpowered elements, see answers to next question.
R:Q: Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Warrior?
Underpowered:
- Archer tree.
- Warriors specializations seems a bit underpowered in comparison with other classes specializations except the Shapeshifter.
- Crossbow need a huge rebalancing, curently they seems totally useless for any set of talents.
- Cons is a bit underpowered. It could add a bit more HP, and/or it could improve a bit endurance, and/or it could improve a little bit endurance and health regeneration.
- That in last part of the game, warriors using str and heavy armor don't have some more possibilities to increase armor value like Dex based fighters can continue increase defense level in last part of the game.
- It's possible (not sure) that runes use need a little rebalancing, like to allow 2 to 5 runes on 2H weapons and 1 to 2 runes on shields.
- I don't see, seems fine to me.
R:Q: What are your favorite Warrior specializations? What are your least favorite?
Favorite Warrior specializations:
- Berserker, my favorite with 2H particularly, despite I feel it a little underpowered, particularly the last talent.
- Reaver, my second favorite, more with S&S not using much taunting constantly but nice with 2H too. And despite I feel it a bit difficult to manage and a little underpowered. Perhaps tactics need some tuning to manage better such talents.
- Champion, probably the warrior specialization not underpowered, seems very well designed, great with any style.
- Templar, but well I didn't used it much, even through Alistair. I liked this specialization had some nice armors dedicated to this specialization, nice and logical.
R:Q: What are your favorite Warrior talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Favorite Warrior talent trees:
- Two Hand tree is just great, even the middle tree with the nice side effect of double hits attacks. But Shattering Blows is too restrictive, for example it could work for giants creatures including golems.
- Sword and Shield is great too, consistent, multiple shields attacks are great and the double str bonus is well seen, Shield Tactics is the talent, and more good things.
- Archer need a lot of change to be better adapted to warriors talents and to make it different than the Rogue Archer tree.
- Two Weapons is a very nice tree, that could work very well with intensive taunt and anti taunt use alas, there's most chance you'll keep its try for rogues that don't have good talents tree but this one. For this tree two, rogues and warriors should not be the same.
- One quote related to the problem of similar talent trees between rogues and warriors, they need have significant differences but also to keep the balance that would mean that rogues get one more totally new talent tree.
The questionary doesn't ask enough to suggestions of improvement. I understand players aren't game designers and that's my point of view too. Also if someone could wanted use the oportunity to include suggestions, it's possible and I did it few times. But it's still not cool that there isn't a question like what talents that could be added, or any question like that.
Modifié par Dlokir, 24 janvier 2010 - 08:24 .
#385
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 12:42
Haplose
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ajm317 wrote...
The shield tree has some useful abilities in it, but when you get right down to it it's only half a tree. It's kind of absurd really. The bottom 2 lines of the tree have 3 useful abilities in it and they somehow stretched that into 8 talents.
Shield defense is useless because shield wall makes it obsolete. Shield balance is useless because all it does is enhance shield defense. Shield wall is good, but they stretch it out into two talents! In order to really get shield wall you need shield expertise, until then you're only getting half of it.
In the bottom line you get shield cover (useless because shield wall makes it obsolete) backstab immunity (nice but again they stretch it into 2 talents with shield block and shield tactics) and shield mastery, which is, again, nice but all it does is enhance the other talents in the tree.
If you simply make all the offensive talents do what shield expertise allows them to do in the first place, and you don't stretch backstab immunity and shield wall into 2 talents you're left with only 2 talents in the entire bottom two rows.
Basically the whole tree feels empty, and a lot of the time I'm slogging through useless talents like shield cover to get abilities I should already have (like the added defense on shield wall or backstab immunity).
This.
There is also a fair bit of redundancy in the 2H tree (and just useless or harmfull Talents), but the S&B tree is just silly.
#386
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 07:01
EvilIguana966
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icarusredeemed wrote...
I find it hard to believe people are enjoying the Shield talents, they are near usless when compared to Dual Wield...but I digress...
What do you like and dislike about the Warrior?
I like melee classes in general when I play RPGs, the ability to wear heavy armor while dealing out damage is quite satisfying. What I disliked is perhaps there were no defensive abilities per say unless you were silly enough to pick the Shield talents, and those were not very good anyway.
[/list]Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Warrior?
The aforementioned Sword and Board talens (really just Board talents) were worthless. Comparing Alistair and my Duel Wielding warrior, I had a much higher defense stat and we both had comparable armor. He did little to no damage and could not keep threat on anything without having to resort to Taunt spamming. In effect, my damage dealer became by default my tank, and I took less damage than him and managed to keep aggro and kill things much quicker.
What are your favorite Warrior specializations? What are your least favorite?
Dual Wield by far destroys the other two trees, in the early game it is a hard tree to go with, but come mid-game and end game, nothing else can compare. The Shield line as I said...I really couldn't get over how bad they were. The stuns are somewhat useful, but they had such long cooldown times, they were near worthless. The defensive abilities were not that great either, as I said before, even with those on constantly, my "tank" had worse defense than my dpser.
What are your favorite Warrior talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Honestly none of them were that great, Champion was probably the most useful although I did enjoy the Berserker ability for Berserkers, it really made a difference in damage. Templar is useless, mages die so quickly, if you are not focusing on them in the beginning of the battle you need your head examined. The ability to mana drain is silly, my foe is dead before I can drain its mana pool so what is the point? Reaver was ok, but again, the special abilities were not something I would use often, the only abilities I ever used on a regular basis was Berserk and the battle cry that added attack and defense.
[/list]
I disagree about the shield talents. Some of them are made obsolete very quickly but taken as a whole the entire tree compares well with dual wield. Yes you do less DPS but the only way you end up with lower defense is if you screw up your build. By the end of the game, you should have Howe's shield which adds 18 defense, and be using shield wall which adds another 10, as well as 5 extra armor. That's 28 defense and 5 armor over a dual wielder with the same stats. The only advantage DW has, defense wise, would be potentially higher physical resistance from runes in the offhand weapon. Offense wise, they clearly win, but either style will be able to hold aggro just fine with just the minimum strength needed to use tier 7 plate. Dual Wield may very well be a better choice overall, but that would be due to the advantages it offers in offense outweighing the disadvantages it imposes in defense, not because it in unequivocally better in both areas.
I have to partially agree with you on the Templar. The only really useful ability is holy smite, but then only because it is an ae knockback. All of their supposedly anti-mage abilities are nearly useless on mages. I'll discuss them one at a time:
Righteous Strike: The mana drain is useless because, as you noted, the mage will die before you drain all of his mana.
Cleanse Area: The problems with the dispel are twofold. First, I can't think of many situations where the enemy had an effect up that needed to be dispelled, so using this ability offensively is out. Secondly, when are you ever in a situation where you are not incapacitated and have an enemy effect on you that is detrimental enough it is worth dispelling all of your party's buffs to remove it?
Mental Fortress: I can't think of any siuation offhand where mental resistance helped me. As far as I can tell the really bad spells all seem to be unresistable.
Holy Smite: Useful for knocking down and dealing a small amount of damage to a mass of enemies in melee, pretty much useless on mages.
The reason I always choose Templar as a specialization is that Reaver and Berserker are totally out of character for my warrior, who in D&D would be a lawful good Paladin.
#387
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 05:27
Sable Phoenix
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In my opinion, attack speeds are universally too slow, and it's just painful for two handers. Two handed weapons should be at about the one-handed attack speed, and one handed attack speed should be about twice what it is now. Attack speed is too slow to feel realisitic, and it actually interferes with the fun of the combat in some cases.
Warrior maintained abilities cost far too much stamina for what you get from them.
Warrior activated abilities should not be additional ways to deal damage. Warrior damage ought to be almost entirely from vanilla attacks, and their damage should be high and dangerous. Warrior activated abilities should all be about applying some kind of status effect, buff, debuff, or interrupt. They can do damage but that should not be their primary focus. In this vein, Pommel Strike is the perfect Warrior ability. Assault, however, is horrible. In my opinion, Warrior abilities should be like playing a collectible card game; timing a particular ability so it has the maximum screw-over effect of the enemy based upon the enemy's action. This would make playing a Warrior much more tactical and involving. Also, their activation times need to be re-evaluated so they don't severely interrupt the flow of damage from the standard attacks.
Warrior maintained abilities cost far too much stamina for what you get from them.
Warrior activated abilities should not be additional ways to deal damage. Warrior damage ought to be almost entirely from vanilla attacks, and their damage should be high and dangerous. Warrior activated abilities should all be about applying some kind of status effect, buff, debuff, or interrupt. They can do damage but that should not be their primary focus. In this vein, Pommel Strike is the perfect Warrior ability. Assault, however, is horrible. In my opinion, Warrior abilities should be like playing a collectible card game; timing a particular ability so it has the maximum screw-over effect of the enemy based upon the enemy's action. This would make playing a Warrior much more tactical and involving. Also, their activation times need to be re-evaluated so they don't severely interrupt the flow of damage from the standard attacks.
#388
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 07:13
Nachoman Randy 666
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Howdy ho, bioware!
First let me tell ya, you have players here in Venezuela!
Now to the point. I played my first walktrough like warrio/berserker/templar. I liked the idea of a fierce unstopable machine with a big bad sword who could be also a bane of magi. I picked templar because the last talent allow me to use magic fire.
Now I'm playing a arcane warrior, but the arcane warrior is a mage with fighting skills, I would LOVE a warrior specialization to be a warrior with arcane skills... get it? The only thing I don't like about the arcane warrior is the lack of the weapon talents, and I would love a more warrior than mage spec.
Two-handed weapons talents are awesome, but some feel lacky, like the one than gives you a bonus fighting golems... I killed like 20, is not enough for a whole talent point.
Warriors felt very underpowered while fighting a mob group than has at least one mage, other than that they are awesome.
Take care!
First let me tell ya, you have players here in Venezuela!
Now to the point. I played my first walktrough like warrio/berserker/templar. I liked the idea of a fierce unstopable machine with a big bad sword who could be also a bane of magi. I picked templar because the last talent allow me to use magic fire.
Now I'm playing a arcane warrior, but the arcane warrior is a mage with fighting skills, I would LOVE a warrior specialization to be a warrior with arcane skills... get it? The only thing I don't like about the arcane warrior is the lack of the weapon talents, and I would love a more warrior than mage spec.
Two-handed weapons talents are awesome, but some feel lacky, like the one than gives you a bonus fighting golems... I killed like 20, is not enough for a whole talent point.
Warriors felt very underpowered while fighting a mob group than has at least one mage, other than that they are awesome.
Take care!
#389
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:40
Sorana2
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I think the 2h style is slightly underpowered against boss and elite enemies. Its slowlyness gives the opponents enough time to overcome the warrior and finish him off before he can hit with his mighty blows. Maybe some sort of dizzyness or disturbance when hit by a 2H blow might balance that a bit...
In my opinion the 1H+Shield type of fighter lacks an attack against multiple enemies. Both the other Types (2weapon and 2H) have one.
My favorite specializations are Champion and Templar. Improves fighting of group and against mages (which are the most damage dealing and powerful enemies).
I disliked the reaper. It did not seem to get me any better as a warrior. There should be a balance between passive and active talents for all specializations.
I liked the 2 weapon combo tree the most. Second best was the archer but I think he is a little bit too slow and the cooldown times for the archer special attacks are too long.
I did not like the 2H weapon talent tree because of the above mentioned drawbacks.
In my opinion the 1H+Shield type of fighter lacks an attack against multiple enemies. Both the other Types (2weapon and 2H) have one.
My favorite specializations are Champion and Templar. Improves fighting of group and against mages (which are the most damage dealing and powerful enemies).
I disliked the reaper. It did not seem to get me any better as a warrior. There should be a balance between passive and active talents for all specializations.
I liked the 2 weapon combo tree the most. Second best was the archer but I think he is a little bit too slow and the cooldown times for the archer special attacks are too long.
I did not like the 2H weapon talent tree because of the above mentioned drawbacks.
#390
Posté 31 janvier 2010 - 05:20
Magister Lajciak
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Although I agree that the 2-handed style is weak, I don't think its attack speed should be increased. Rather, it should be dealt with in other ways - perhaps giving it extra damage - in order to preserve the differentiation versus other styles.
#391
Posté 31 janvier 2010 - 05:38
Haplose
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Magister Lajciak wrote...
Although I agree that the 2-handed style is weak, I don't think its attack speed should be increased. Rather, it should be dealt with in other ways - perhaps giving it extra damage - in order to preserve the differentiation versus other styles.
Most important thing: normalize bonus damage sources with attack speed (runes, Flame/Frost/Telekinetic buffs, poisons, Berserk, Blood Thirst, Final Blow) and trigger these bonus damage sources on active Talent attacks!
That would go a long way towards improving 2h combat.
#392
Posté 31 janvier 2010 - 06:00
Wowlock
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I personally love warriors. And mostly I like tanking ( because you got great armor - defense and saving other companions from trouble of dying )
But as Alistair a tank based character I thought that 2 tanks wont be needed. So I played as 2-hand warrior. With Starfang it simply great.
Although I think Armor sets only need for your survival, sometimes I didnt even need Alistair because of it
Good thing that warriors can be tanks without a shield or spec ( less affective but with your crazy damage enemies will attack you anyways )
Now I want to see how a DW warrior will do. I heard ppl saying that Alistair can be a great DW dps. lets see if they are true.
As I saw with Zevran , DW is pretty cool
But as Alistair a tank based character I thought that 2 tanks wont be needed. So I played as 2-hand warrior. With Starfang it simply great.
Although I think Armor sets only need for your survival, sometimes I didnt even need Alistair because of it
Good thing that warriors can be tanks without a shield or spec ( less affective but with your crazy damage enemies will attack you anyways )Now I want to see how a DW warrior will do. I heard ppl saying that Alistair can be a great DW dps. lets see if they are true.
As I saw with Zevran , DW is pretty cool
#393
Posté 02 février 2010 - 09:31
Axekix
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What do you like and dislike about the Warrior?
I always lean towards melee characters in RPGs (My first completion of DAO being with a 2H Berserker/Champ). Personally, I love the aethetic, especially some of the unique weapon designs. I also found the playstyle highly interactive towards end game, though it starts out very very slowly.
My biggest gripe with Warriors, and all physical classes in this game is stamina management. Mages have mana potions but there's no equivalent for Warriors and Rogues. The fact that heavy/massive armor incurs the highest fatigue penalties exagerrates the difference even further. Even using Death Blow I found myself struggling with stamina until late in the campaign.
Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Warrior?
Unlike some, I feel the 2h tree is actually well balanced. The combination of utility (CC/debuffs) and damage seems just about where it should, although I do feel Shattering Blows and Critical Strike could use some improvement.
There are just too few construct enemies in game to justify investing in Shattering Blows on its own (although it's necessary for the better talents, Sunder Armor and Destroyer) and Critical Strike seems like little more than a clone of Mighty Blow, with a much longer CD.
What are your favorite Warrior specializations? What are your least favorite?
I absolutely love the Champion specialization. Berserker seems solid too although the damage bonus (+8) doesn't scale well and feels far less noticable at end game when regular melee swings can hit well over 100. Powerful Swings and Blood Frenzy are in this boat as well.
Templar offers quite a bit of utility. Reaver however seems the most in need of improvement. The sustained buffs from Reaver are extremely expensive and offer minimal gains. I feel Aura of Pain should have its damage increased or its cost significantly decreased to truly be viable.
What are your favorite Warrior talent trees? What are your least favorite?
I actually really like the 2H tree and the sword and board tree. I've never been able to really get into the DW tree with my warriors because of the requirement for such high dexterity, though I understand it can be extremely powerful at end game, even with less str stacking.
I always lean towards melee characters in RPGs (My first completion of DAO being with a 2H Berserker/Champ). Personally, I love the aethetic, especially some of the unique weapon designs. I also found the playstyle highly interactive towards end game, though it starts out very very slowly.
My biggest gripe with Warriors, and all physical classes in this game is stamina management. Mages have mana potions but there's no equivalent for Warriors and Rogues. The fact that heavy/massive armor incurs the highest fatigue penalties exagerrates the difference even further. Even using Death Blow I found myself struggling with stamina until late in the campaign.
Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Warrior?
Unlike some, I feel the 2h tree is actually well balanced. The combination of utility (CC/debuffs) and damage seems just about where it should, although I do feel Shattering Blows and Critical Strike could use some improvement.
There are just too few construct enemies in game to justify investing in Shattering Blows on its own (although it's necessary for the better talents, Sunder Armor and Destroyer) and Critical Strike seems like little more than a clone of Mighty Blow, with a much longer CD.
What are your favorite Warrior specializations? What are your least favorite?
I absolutely love the Champion specialization. Berserker seems solid too although the damage bonus (+8) doesn't scale well and feels far less noticable at end game when regular melee swings can hit well over 100. Powerful Swings and Blood Frenzy are in this boat as well.
Templar offers quite a bit of utility. Reaver however seems the most in need of improvement. The sustained buffs from Reaver are extremely expensive and offer minimal gains. I feel Aura of Pain should have its damage increased or its cost significantly decreased to truly be viable.
What are your favorite Warrior talent trees? What are your least favorite?
I actually really like the 2H tree and the sword and board tree. I've never been able to really get into the DW tree with my warriors because of the requirement for such high dexterity, though I understand it can be extremely powerful at end game, even with less str stacking.
Modifié par Axekix, 02 février 2010 - 09:33 .
#394
Posté 03 février 2010 - 07:41
Haplose
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Axekix wrote...
I've never been able to really get into the DW tree with my warriors because of the requirement for such high dexterity, though I understand it can be extremely powerful at end game, even with less str stacking.
In fact it's very strong almost right of the bat, much sooner then 2H tree - definately not only endgame.
#395
Posté 03 février 2010 - 09:08
TheLion36
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I loved the warrior class and I do think there are quite a few differences to the rogue class, however I can understand that having a bow-specialisation in the warrior tree is a bit odd which is why I never used it.
I usually play a tank and the only real minor problem I have encountered so far is that you need quite a bit of strength for armor which imho is the least important stat for a tank... I usually go for dexterity since it makes you harder to hit... Perhaps a passive that lowers requirements or converts a portion of the dexterity to strength just for armor evaluation (so not actually getting any benefits from it except being able to wear armor that you dont have the strength amount for)?
Another request would be to have some more taunting abilities, so far we only have the Taunt option which is a multi-enemy taunt with a pretty long cooldown, it would be nice to have a single enemy taunt with a very low cooldown.
I also agree that stamina is often a problem, it would be nice to have some armor items that have +stamina regen like mages have +mana regen items...
Another nice improvement for shield users would be to get a counter to mages, something like spell reflect where the mage gets hit by his own spell when activated.
I did find that the 2H strikes are too slow, which to made it feel annoying to play. I am not sure if its really the slowness of the attacks or more the animation which for Sten for example made it look as he was going to fall over each time he struck.
My favorite specialisation so far has been the Champion specialisation and my favorite abilities have been Shield Wall and any ability that took an enemy out of the equation for a few seconds (shield bash, shield pummel and overpower).
I usually play a tank and the only real minor problem I have encountered so far is that you need quite a bit of strength for armor which imho is the least important stat for a tank... I usually go for dexterity since it makes you harder to hit... Perhaps a passive that lowers requirements or converts a portion of the dexterity to strength just for armor evaluation (so not actually getting any benefits from it except being able to wear armor that you dont have the strength amount for)?
Another request would be to have some more taunting abilities, so far we only have the Taunt option which is a multi-enemy taunt with a pretty long cooldown, it would be nice to have a single enemy taunt with a very low cooldown.
I also agree that stamina is often a problem, it would be nice to have some armor items that have +stamina regen like mages have +mana regen items...
Another nice improvement for shield users would be to get a counter to mages, something like spell reflect where the mage gets hit by his own spell when activated.
I did find that the 2H strikes are too slow, which to made it feel annoying to play. I am not sure if its really the slowness of the attacks or more the animation which for Sten for example made it look as he was going to fall over each time he struck.
My favorite specialisation so far has been the Champion specialisation and my favorite abilities have been Shield Wall and any ability that took an enemy out of the equation for a few seconds (shield bash, shield pummel and overpower).
Modifié par TheLion36, 03 février 2010 - 09:09 .
#396
Posté 03 février 2010 - 12:27
Haplose
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TheLion36 wrote...
I also agree that stamina is often a problem, it would be nice to have some armor items that have +stamina regen like mages have +mana regen items...
There are such armor sets/pieces in game. Plenty of them infact.
#397
Posté 03 février 2010 - 02:30
TheLion36
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Haplose wrote...
TheLion36 wrote...
I also agree that stamina is often a problem, it would be nice to have some armor items that have +stamina regen like mages have +mana regen items...
There are such armor sets/pieces in game. Plenty of them infact.
Knew about +Stamina but not +Stamina Regen... Thanks! Will have to keep my out for those then!
#398
Posté 09 février 2010 - 03:41
yasuraka.hakkyou
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yay thread necro.
Now that I have a good bit of experience with 2 handers, I'm gonna add on to my post, wherever it is.
They truly need, Need, NEED to either swing faster, or have a higher chance to hit (only boosting strength and const., still doesn't seem to help). early game is just brutal, since you can't hit half the time, and you swing slower than molasses to boot. I'd like 2H weapons to say, swing at 3.0 speed if longswords swung at say 2.25 or 2.5. something like that, as opposed to the current "2H to other" speed of 5 to 2.5 (made up numbers, obviously, but hopefully you get the idea). I completely understand that the balance comes from 2H hitting harder but swinging slower, but it's ridiculous looking in game.
Also, you're swinging what, a 5+ foot long weapon? there should be a balanced, small but default chance to hit multiple enemies. maybe the non-targets only take half damage, or something? I think both of these things would really help.
Now that I have a good bit of experience with 2 handers, I'm gonna add on to my post, wherever it is.
They truly need, Need, NEED to either swing faster, or have a higher chance to hit (only boosting strength and const., still doesn't seem to help). early game is just brutal, since you can't hit half the time, and you swing slower than molasses to boot. I'd like 2H weapons to say, swing at 3.0 speed if longswords swung at say 2.25 or 2.5. something like that, as opposed to the current "2H to other" speed of 5 to 2.5 (made up numbers, obviously, but hopefully you get the idea). I completely understand that the balance comes from 2H hitting harder but swinging slower, but it's ridiculous looking in game.
Also, you're swinging what, a 5+ foot long weapon? there should be a balanced, small but default chance to hit multiple enemies. maybe the non-targets only take half damage, or something? I think both of these things would really help.
Modifié par yasuraka.hakkyou, 09 février 2010 - 03:41 .
#399
Posté 09 février 2010 - 04:32
draxynnus
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That might be your mistake - boost Dex instead. That increases your to-hit chance and your defense, so it's possibly just as good for survivability than the extra hit points as well as making you more likely to hit.yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...
They truly need, Need, NEED to either swing faster, or have a higher chance to hit (only boosting strength and const., still doesn't seem to help).
(Constitution is, at the moment, quite underpowered.)
#400
Posté 09 février 2010 - 05:43
DragonDefender
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One of the things I loved the most about the warrior class when I finally played one was the ability to wear heavy/massive armor and dual weild blades. To me this was carnage on a scale the was very enjoyable.
With that being said one of things I really did not like about the warrior class there was nothing much to do aside from hack/slash or shield wall, this is all well and good but there could have been more to the class to have made it more an in-depth class. Making the Templar build more sustaible w longer spell iterupts and mana drains would have been perfect. The same goes for the other classes.
As far as underpowered or overpowered I just adapt to whatever is causing me issues when I play a warrior so I really cannot answer this question with a good answer.
Best warrrior specialization imo is the Berserker with Champion right behind that, my least favorite is the Templar that class could have been so much more if it had more utility use built into it.
The Dualist tree was my favorite tree for warriors in the game, I really did not like the two handed specialization tree. I felt the Two Handed tree could have been fleshed out alot more. I really would love to seen and activated power that increased speed a little bit more with the two hander, nothing so substaintial that is swung as fast as a longsword or dagger but something just a little faster was all.
I really would love to see an end talent for the specialization tree's for all classes maybe have a major move that you might get a cut scene from or something. Something that once u have filled all the points out I believe it is 12 per tree that you can only recieve then.
I would also love to see some new armor and weapons in the game not just re skins of the same old thing. Give us Rapiers, Stilleto's, Flamberge's and other nice weapon skins almost everything we have seen to date is just a re-skin of what we have lets see some of that Bioware creativity at work. I would love to see the design in my leather armor and know it is of Elven or Dwarven make not just the hohum leather I keep getting.
And my last gripe is please make the lettering bigger I am playing on a huge set and stll have a hard time making out codex enteries.
Thanks Bioware for such great games, keep up the good work sorry I wandered off topic slightly at the end.
With that being said one of things I really did not like about the warrior class there was nothing much to do aside from hack/slash or shield wall, this is all well and good but there could have been more to the class to have made it more an in-depth class. Making the Templar build more sustaible w longer spell iterupts and mana drains would have been perfect. The same goes for the other classes.
As far as underpowered or overpowered I just adapt to whatever is causing me issues when I play a warrior so I really cannot answer this question with a good answer.
Best warrrior specialization imo is the Berserker with Champion right behind that, my least favorite is the Templar that class could have been so much more if it had more utility use built into it.
The Dualist tree was my favorite tree for warriors in the game, I really did not like the two handed specialization tree. I felt the Two Handed tree could have been fleshed out alot more. I really would love to seen and activated power that increased speed a little bit more with the two hander, nothing so substaintial that is swung as fast as a longsword or dagger but something just a little faster was all.
I really would love to see an end talent for the specialization tree's for all classes maybe have a major move that you might get a cut scene from or something. Something that once u have filled all the points out I believe it is 12 per tree that you can only recieve then.
I would also love to see some new armor and weapons in the game not just re skins of the same old thing. Give us Rapiers, Stilleto's, Flamberge's and other nice weapon skins almost everything we have seen to date is just a re-skin of what we have lets see some of that Bioware creativity at work. I would love to see the design in my leather armor and know it is of Elven or Dwarven make not just the hohum leather I keep getting.
And my last gripe is please make the lettering bigger I am playing on a huge set and stll have a hard time making out codex enteries.
Thanks Bioware for such great games, keep up the good work sorry I wandered off topic slightly at the end.
