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[David7204]

Javik's cycle gave us Vigil and the Crucible. But Javik himself didn't contribute to any of that. Nor does he provide anything crucial to the current cycle.

Modifié par David7204, 31 mars 2013 - 04:45 .

[themikefest]

I like Javik. He calls it like he sees it. He doesn't give a crap about anyone's feeling. He was right in saying to T'Soni that she didn't study hard enough in knowing about the Protheans.

[mango smoothie]

I'm so glad the Protheans weren't like how Liara wanted them to be. It made the species so much more interesting, and it produced one of the best characters in the trilogy, in my opinion.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Javik's cycle gave us Vigil and the Crucible. But Javik himself didn't contribute to any that. Nor does he provide anything crucial to the current cycle.

. But he knows what to do in order to keep the fight going.  He didnt fail because his strategies were wrong.  He failed because it was over long before he was born.

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

Interesting how the most Renegade squadmate is also the biggest failure, isn't it?

Maybe, if it were at all objective.

[David7204]

arial wrote...

David7204 wrote...

arial wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm just interested in what makes people think he's a badass or has the right idea. He didn't succeed at all.

Now, I completely understand that Shepard probably would not have succeeded either in Javik's situation. But would have it ever gotten to the point where Shepard is willing to forget about his or her friends - to stop caring- out of anguish or shame? 1984 made an interesting point of showing that to be the ultimate betrayal.

Javik did not "stop careing", did you see how Pissed off he was when Victory was shutting off the other life pods?

Not for every Prothean in existence. But for his old crew, yeah. Wasn't that the entire purpose of the shard? To make him forget? To make him stop caring?

umm, the Shard was actually the Complete Opposite. The Shard stored the Memories, hopes, and dreams of Every Prothean that possessed it. The fact Javik keeps it proves he did not stop careing, the simple fact he still has it shows he honors his Comrads. if he "stopped careing" he would have thrown it away

So why exactly did he seal off his own memories into it, then? Why not just carry them in his head? 

[NoReapers]

I was also very disappointed. Even think about uninstalling "From Ashes" from time to time.

[David7204]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Javik's cycle gave us Vigil and the Crucible. But Javik himself didn't contribute to any that. Nor does he provide anything crucial to the current cycle.

. But he knows what to do in order to keep the fight going.  He didnt fail because his strategies were wrong.  He failed because it was over long before he was born.

I understand that, which is why I brought up the memories he sealed into the shard.

[ThinkSharp]

Have to remember that the Prothean Empire, though apparently imperialistic, probably wasn't only how Javik describes it. For one, his entire life was lived during the Reaper war, and he clearly states he never knew the Citadel or what that part of Prothean culture was like apart from the stored memories. And, like anyone else, he's going to interpret and explain his culture through his own opinions/experience/understanding. Just like Liara interpreted the Protheans through an understanding of Asari culture.

It's interesting that they act as foils to each other, but both are probably right on some level.

It'd be like any one of us trying to describe the entirety of our culture(s). Each person would say something a bit different, focusing on their personal priorties/beliefs.

I appreciate that.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 31 mars 2013 - 04:52 .

[arial]

David7204 wrote...

arial wrote...

David7204 wrote...

arial wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm just interested in what makes people think he's a badass or has the right idea. He didn't succeed at all.

Now, I completely understand that Shepard probably would not have succeeded either in Javik's situation. But would have it ever gotten to the point where Shepard is willing to forget about his or her friends - to stop caring- out of anguish or shame? 1984 made an interesting point of showing that to be the ultimate betrayal.

Javik did not "stop careing", did you see how Pissed off he was when Victory was shutting off the other life pods?

Not for every Prothean in existence. But for his old crew, yeah. Wasn't that the entire purpose of the shard? To make him forget? To make him stop caring?

umm, the Shard was actually the Complete Opposite. The Shard stored the Memories, hopes, and dreams of Every Prothean that possessed it. The fact Javik keeps it proves he did not stop careing, the simple fact he still has it shows he honors his Comrads. if he "stopped careing" he would have thrown it away

So why exactly did he seal off his own memories into it, then? Why not just carry them in his head? 

did you even play from Ashes?

He did not seal his memories in it, as is obvious if you talk to him.

you do not move your memories into the Shard you copy them. its like if you throw a 32GB Flash Drive into your PC, and "Copy" a file onto it. the file is still on your machine, but it is also on the Flashdrive.

He still has his memories, he just copied them into the shard.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Javik's cycle gave us Vigil and the Crucible. But Javik himself didn't contribute to any that. Nor does he provide anything crucial to the current cycle.

. But he knows what to do in order to keep the fight going.  He didnt fail because his strategies were wrong.  He failed because it was over long before he was born.

I understand that, which is why I brought up the memories he sealed into the shard.

. I was countering your point that he brings nothing to this cycle.  He brings first hand experience with the Reapers in a worst case scenario.  I think that is kind of important.  He knows what they are capable of and he knows what works and what doesn't.

[Saberchic]

I'm actually glad Liara is wrong. It shows us the folly of romanticizing the past and how our preconceptions can color what we see.

I'm not really a fan of Javik. He's got some great lines, but he's too coarse for my tastes. But I also wouldn't want to see him changed either. I love that the protheans were the Roman Empire of the galaxy. He brings that to life.

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Im glad they were not Liara has this thing about her that urks me and it feels me with Joy to see her wrong > the protheans reminded me of the Irkens from invader ZIM and I love ZIM so Im glad HAHA

Besides Javik was an awesome character (minus the whole "let femshep sleep with him" in the CDLC *nightmares*)

plus wasn't he going to be the catalyst but they cut him out so we can give more money to EA <.< >.> ahh I see

He was going to be useful but Human greed is a powerful thing which caused us to have just another squadmate instead of something that was critical in the story

You know what have been smart if Javik was in the story (as the catalyst or w.e) and make James be a DLC

[DirtyPhoenix]

David7204 wrote...

arial wrote...

David7204 wrote...

arial wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm just interested in what makes people think he's a badass or has the right idea. He didn't succeed at all.

Now, I completely understand that Shepard probably would not have succeeded either in Javik's situation. But would have it ever gotten to the point where Shepard is willing to forget about his or her friends - to stop caring- out of anguish or shame? 1984 made an interesting point of showing that to be the ultimate betrayal.

Javik did not "stop careing", did you see how Pissed off he was when Victory was shutting off the other life pods?

Not for every Prothean in existence. But for his old crew, yeah. Wasn't that the entire purpose of the shard? To make him forget? To make him stop caring?

umm, the Shard was actually the Complete Opposite. The Shard stored the Memories, hopes, and dreams of Every Prothean that possessed it. The fact Javik keeps it proves he did not stop careing, the simple fact he still has it shows he honors his Comrads. if he "stopped careing" he would have thrown it away

So why exactly did he seal off his own memories into it, then? Why not just carry them in his head? 

Because he was ashamed and disgusted of them. Actually its the opposite. If he didn't care why not just carry them around.. that can do no harm right? But obviously he cared enough to shut out the memories that reminded him of his failures.

[David7204]

This a direct exerpt from ME 3:

Shepard: And you don't want to remember that?
Javik: Imagine if everyone you knew was dead. You could not remember their faces, or the color of the sky above your home. The memories were gone, but so was the pain. Would you want to remember that, Commander? Even if it meant watching everyone die again?

This is very clear. Javik sealed the memories into the shard. He didn't copy them. He doesn't remember until he touches it.

Modifié par David7204, 31 mars 2013 - 05:15 .

[robertthebard]

pirate1802 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

arial wrote...

David7204 wrote...

arial wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm just interested in what makes people think he's a badass or has the right idea. He didn't succeed at all.

Now, I completely understand that Shepard probably would not have succeeded either in Javik's situation. But would have it ever gotten to the point where Shepard is willing to forget about his or her friends - to stop caring- out of anguish or shame? 1984 made an interesting point of showing that to be the ultimate betrayal.

Javik did not "stop careing", did you see how Pissed off he was when Victory was shutting off the other life pods?

Not for every Prothean in existence. But for his old crew, yeah. Wasn't that the entire purpose of the shard? To make him forget? To make him stop caring?

umm, the Shard was actually the Complete Opposite. The Shard stored the Memories, hopes, and dreams of Every Prothean that possessed it. The fact Javik keeps it proves he did not stop careing, the simple fact he still has it shows he honors his Comrads. if he "stopped careing" he would have thrown it away

So why exactly did he seal off his own memories into it, then? Why not just carry them in his head? 

Because he was ashamed and disgusted of them. Actually its the opposite. If he didn't care why not just carry them around.. that can do no harm right? But obviously he cared enough to shut out the memories that reminded him of his failures.

Closer to the truth, since he can pass the shard to Shepard, is that he wants the memories carried forward from him.  The memory shard, after all, doesn't delete the memories, it stores them, and anyone that can use it, can read them, and see what happened from the first person who passed memories into it to the last.

[David7204]

pirate1802 wrote...

Because he was ashamed and disgusted of them. Actually its the opposite. If he didn't care why not just carry them around.. that can do no harm right? But obviously he cared enough to shut out the memories that reminded him of his failures.

The issue is not whether he did care. It's obvious he cared very much about his friends at one point. The issue is whether he wanted to care. And he doesn't. He decided he no longer wanted to care about his friends. So he sealed the memories so he could do that.

Modifié par David7204, 31 mars 2013 - 05:18 .

[ForThessia]

As much as I disagreed with Javik on many occasions, I did like his character and the way Bioware handled him. He comes off as very blunt and insensitive, but I think he cares a lot more than he lets on.

[ThinkSharp]

Ignore this.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 31 mars 2013 - 05:19 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Protheans are most definitely intelligent and enlightened.

Good is a point of view.

[David7204]

Well, if you consider the Reapers winning and your friends dead to be 'good,' you're certainly free to do that.

[Suron]

David7204 wrote...

This a direct exerpt from ME 3:

Shepard: And you don't want to remember that?
Javik: Imagine if everyone you knew was dead. You could not remember their faces, or the color of the sky above your home. The memories were gone, but so was the pain. Would you want to remember that, Commander? Even if it meant watching everyone die again?

This is very clear. Javik sealed the memories into the shard. He didn't copy them. He doesn't remember until he touches it.

Do you remember everything and everyone you ever knew?  If he removed his memory INTO the shard, as you describe, then he wouldn't even remember it happened much less that he forgot ANYTHING 

He didn't remove any memories into the shard..he copied them...his statement is that he has forgotten exactly what they looked like/etc...y'know..like any person does as time passes....you remember things and people but may not exactly remember what they looked like..

you're wrong, fact.

thanks for playing though.

EDIT -> to make it clearer for the dense.

Most people know the sorrow of losing a loved-one/family member..when you think about that family member do you feel the exact same pain and anguish you did when they died? no..of course not.  That's what Javik meant...the shard would make him remember and "feel" that pain/sorrow again.

imagine the most upsetting event in your life...a death..a breakup...whatever....now are you as upset over it as you were back when it happened? no of course not..now imagine you had some trinket that would make you FEEL that pain/anguish if you used it....that's what Javik was talking about and what that shard is....he didn't remove any memories from himself, he copied them into the shard.

but again, thanks for playing kthxbye

Modifié par Suron, 31 mars 2013 - 05:31 .

[David7204]

Is that right? So you're telling me that if I spent time underground, I would forget that the sky is blue in a few years? Also, that if friends of mine died, the pain would be gone as long as I forget what their faces look like precisely?

You're telling me that when someone says "The memories were gone," it means "I still remember, but not as well, because memory often fades with time."?

Modifié par David7204, 31 mars 2013 - 05:47 .

[F4H bandicoot]

David7204 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Because he was ashamed and disgusted of them. Actually its the opposite. If he didn't care why not just carry them around.. that can do no harm right? But obviously he cared enough to shut out the memories that reminded him of his failures.

The issue is not whether he did care. It's obvious he cared very much about his friends at one point. The issue is whether he wanted to care. And he doesn't. He decided he no longer wanted to care about his friends. So he sealed the memories so he could do that.

That doesn't prove he does not care..

[robertthebard]

David7204 wrote...

Is that right? So you're telling me that if I spent time underground, I would forget that the sky is blue in a few years? Also, that if friends of mine died, the pain would be gone as long as I forget what their faces look like precisely?

Over time, the pain of loss lessens, and the memory of loved ones fades.  Do you ever truly forget?  No, but you do internalize these feelings, and deal with them so that they aren't the first thing you think about when you wake up, and the last thing you think about when you go to sleep, and all that you dream about.  However, to touch on one point, have you buried a friend that you went to school with?  I have, and the first few days was traumatic.  I couldn't not think about him.  I also couldn't go to his house to help his wife, because the pain was too great for me.  After just a few days to internalize, I was able to do so, and by the time we had his funeral, I could look at him w/out breaking down, and face his family.  Today, it's unpleasant, but not painful.  Now, if I had had a way to store those memories so that I could use that emotion to hunt down his killer, I would have used it.  I would have packed up the emotional rollercoaster of rage and grief so that I could reference it if I ever met the man that shot him, and use it to subject his family to the same grief he submitted my friend's family to.  This is exactly what Javik did with the memory shard.  Because over time, you will forget what friends you had look like.  Unless you have the same 3 friends for your whole life, and 3 is just a random number, not an implication, there are people that you have associated with early in your life that you won't be able to describe to a sketch artist and get an accurate representation of what they looked like, except in a very general sense.