122 réponses à ce sujet

[DWH1982]

Eh, I always figured the Protheans weren't quite what the galaxy seemed to think they were.

I like the direction Bioware went. It's delicious irony. Plus, if you don't like it, there's a simple solution - don't install the Javik DLC.

[F4H bandicoot]

Also, if Javik never gets to view his own memories from the shard (Shep knocks it out of his hands during a memory of the reaper invasion) How can he recall killing all his friends with a knife if the memory was wiped from his mind??

[David7204]

Enough of this. Javik says the memories are gone. Gone. He doesn't say faded. He doesn't say internalized. He says gone. Every line of dialogue and bit of evidence points to this.

[F4H bandicoot]

David7204 wrote...

Enough of this. Javik says the memories are gone. Gone. He doesn't say faded. He doesn't say internalized. He says gone. Every(ONE) line of dialogue and bit of evidence points to this.

No, by your logic he should have no memory of killing his friends. He does not 'relive' this memory, and therefore he should have forgotten it. He does has this memory.
Saying that putting the memories in the shard is 'not caring' about his friends if ****ing retarded too.

[JaegerBane]

Gulaman wrote...

Intelligent, enlightened, a force of good for the galaxy. I wanted our Prothean squad mate to be more like the Vigil AI. Boy was I disappointed with Javik and his arrogant, bloodthirsty character. And it's not as if he's the way he is because of the Reaper slaughter of his people. By all accounts the Protheans were jerks anyway and them getting wiped out isn't the tragedy we were led to believe it was. I can't reconcile a warmongering race of idiots with the intelligent beings that helped Shepard's quest long after their death, with the beacons, the Conduit etc. That's just me though. Maybe I've watched too much Star Trek in my time.

How did you feel about the true Protheans, or at least, as represented by Javik?

I respectfully disagree. One of the things I liked most about ME3 was the way that all the preconceptions about the Protheans were smashed now that we got to meet one.

What I liked was how they went from being a fanciful race of amazing benefactors who purely existed to be awesome - i.e. a myth - and were revealed as being an extremely violent, predatory species who's success was rooted in their ability to overcome virtually all opposition, much like the ancient Roman Empire. On top of that, the fact that their fall was tied to the arrival of an even stronger threat underpinned the point behind trying to unite the galaxy, as it showed why no single species could hope to handle the Reapers.

And Javik was just a great character.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that they were 'warmongering idiots'. That 'idiocy' brought them within a hair's breadth of defeating the Reapers and even their failure was the sole reason the current races had a chance. It's not like they went around picking fights just for the sake of it.

[Macgummi]

While I agree with most of the people here and also found Javik to be a great character, I still wish Bioware had left the Protheans alone, like the OP said. There was a great enigma surrounding them in ME1 which was destroyed after we got Javik. It was left to our imagination how the Protheans looked, acted, what their form of government was. I pictured them as the OP did and that´s one of the reasons why I always thought the dialogue with Vigil is the best and most special moment throughout the trilogy.

[HolyAvenger]

I liked how Javik subverted the build-up of the Protheans as this wise progenitor-race.

[DWH1982]

I suspect the protheans did think of themselves as intelligent and enlightened. They probably thought they were actually bringing those things to the rest of the galaxy when they "invited" a new race to join their empire or tinkered with the evolution of a species (like the asari).

After a few generations, some of their subjects may have even started to think that way, as well. The protheans could be brutal, but I imagine they probably also brought some benefits to their subjects - advanced technology, knowledge, medicine, infrastructure. Otherwise, they'd be facing rebellions all the time.

[Kabooooom]

So you wanted thebprotheans to be boring and predictable OP? Got it. Myself, I prefer things shaken up a bit. Javik was a high point of ME3.

[LadyJaneGrey]

I didn't really see Javik as diametrically opposed to what very little we knew about the Protheans before ME3 (fought the reapers, left information for the next cycle's organics, sacrificed the few for the many).  All the rest seemed to be Liara projecting the ideals of the asari onto her favorite topic.

Also, imperialist, militaristic societies can produce great philosophers, artists, and scientists. You could even argue that the peace brought  about by a controlling empire gave a measure of security to the conquered (e.g. Rome).

Edited for clarity

Modifié par LadyJaneGrey, 31 mars 2013 - 07:40 .

[pj1967]

I like the fact that the Protheans and Javik don't turn out to be what Liara expected, not because I don't like Liara (on the contrary, she's my LI), but because it adds tension and quite frankly was an obvious outcome. However, Javik is still an arrogant ****** in my book, and whenever he's in my mission squad (very rarely 'cause he's utterly useless), I spend almost as much time trying to frag that impertinent p_ssy as I do killing the enemy.

Modifié par pj1967, 03 avril 2013 - 01:35 .

[Gulaman]

Not understanding the Javik love. I thought he was a bland character who really started to bore me with his predictable anecdotes about how much violence he'd like to mete out, and just how primitive everyone else. He's been described as being akin to an internet troll and that is absolutely correct. He just says stupid things in order to annoy everyone. I'd like to think he wasn't at all a typical Prothean but just a violent meathead, a product of a genocidal war. I'm sure if the scientists that created the Conduit survived in stasis instead they'd be a bit more likable and a better representation of the Prothean people.

[Megaton_Hope]

Conduit wasn't there for Shepard, it was there because the Protheans were trying to reverse-engineer mass relay technology. So they made a little one.

[MetioricTest]

I think the point of Javik was that you were supposed to hope he was awesome. And then have the rug pulled from under you

[cerberus1701]

I was ok with them not.

In fact, I kind of expected it.

They were her life's work. Of course she romanticized them.

[Sir George Parr]

Far better to have Liara's romanticised view of the Protheans completely destroyed by Javik. It would have being a rather dull if Javik was everything Liara expected him to be.

[CrutchCricket]

No, Javik's current portrayal is awesome and the subversion of romantic ideals is totally what would happen if we dug up a living 50,000 year old guy.

People in the future: Oh those wonderful 21st century people. Imagine what it must've been like, having a worldwide network of interconnected devices! All the knowledge of a race at your fingertips! They must've been highly intelligent.

Nope. We used it to share pornography and pictures of cats lololol.

[d1ta]

Well, what we awoken is the Avatar of Vengeance after all, so I guess it makes sense on Javic's behaviour (Yes, he is a Troll, some people like him, some other like me don't. But I get where he's coming from) and it's difficult to just judge a nation (or species) based on just ONE character, since I bet before the Reaper invasion in the Prothean era there were also the avatar or arts, avatar of wisdom, avatar of patience, peace, justice etc.. That has a radically different attitude than Javic. We just didn't have the chance to meet them.

Sure, their imperialistic nature might seemed oppressive and all, but that didn't automatically say that the Protheans treat the uplifted species badly. From what I gather, those who 'accepts Prothean Superiority' were being gradually 'integrated' into the mix, until they all have the Prothean ideals (having the name and mindset of being Prothean) from this point I think, they get to enjoy equal status and weren't being treated as a 2nd class citizen or a slave.

But yes, Javic did make a stark contrast to the Protheans that I used to imagine in ME1. I LoL'ed hard for being smacked a bit. I pretty much understands how Liara felt at that moment, my poor blueberry friend, she was hoping to meet a wise councilor but it just had to be Javic.. XD

[Wulfram]

It sits poorly with the way ME3 seems to have a lot of Prothean information available. The Protheans really shouldn't be all that unknown.

Back in ME1 when the Reapers seemed to have made a cleaner sweep it would have fit better. As did a lot of things.

[o Ventus]

Gulaman wrote...

Not understanding the Javik love. I thought he was a bland character who really started to bore me with his predictable anecdotes about how much violence he'd like to mete out, and just how primitive everyone else. He's been described as being akin to an internet troll and that is absolutely correct. He just says stupid things in order to annoy everyone. I'd like to think he wasn't at all a typical Prothean but just a violent meathead, a product of a genocidal war. I'm sure if the scientists that created the Conduit survived in stasis instead they'd be a bit more likable and a better representation of the Prothean people.

Have you actually spoken to Javik? He was born at the conclusion of his cycle.

He IS the product of a genocidal war. It's literally all he knows.

Going "lololol violent meathead" without putting the slightest effort to actually analyzing his character is disingenuous.

[MegaSovereign]

David7204 wrote...

Interesting how the most Renegade squadmate is also the biggest failure, isn't it?

Javik's moral alignment has literally nothing to do with why his cycle failed.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I would have prefered if we never had a Prothean squadmember to begin with.

[Cheesesack]

I think he does not represent what the Protheans were like for most of their cycle. Like he says, he is the embodiment of vengeance, born into an already lost war against the Reapers. He's never known anything but conflict and the harsh, brutal truth the Protheans had to accept in order to survive. I think a lot of his opinions, especially those about his own people, are tainted by that. When your entire life has consisted of seeing those around you die or be turned into nightmare monstrosities, it must be difficult to see life as anything other than a bitter, bloodthirsty struggle for survival.

[Ridwan]

I doubt anyone would act like some sort of enlightened monk when all your life you've only seen death. Javik was ok, he had a voice that needed to be heard. The only blood sad thing about Javik was that he wasn't included in game from the beginning (yes yes, I snuck in a day DLC rant, deal with it).