122 réponses à ce sujet

[N7KnightSabre]

Javik was born during a galactic Reaper war. He's been hardened. As he says himself, if he were born at a different time, maybe he would have been the devoted scholar Liara and you wish him to be. I think the majority of the Protheans were probably like that before the war. However, I was happy about what they did with Javik. I expected him to be the wise, noble type the series built up and then surprised when he was a renegade type who hated machines. War shaped him and I understood that and liked that. Thought it was good writing.

[Wayning_Star]

LadyPaine wrote...

Javik was born during a galactic Reaper war. He's been hardened. As he says himself, if he were born at a different time, maybe he would have been the devoted scholar Liara and you wish him to be. I think the majority of the Protheans were probably like that before the war. However, I was happy about what they did with Javik. I expected him to be the wise, noble type the series built up and then surprised when he was a renegade type who hated machines. War shaped him and I understood that and liked that. Thought it was good writing.

Javik was created, genetically, for battle. Draconic warrior sect within the Prothean society. They did it with the Asari, just like, or similar to "Dad" was to Miranda...

Liara is his dream date..made for each other, to reignite the Protheans.

[Rhayak]

Yep. I don't know why Prothean statues looked like regular humans throwing up spaghetti, but the way they handles Javik was bloody brilliant. The enlightened, peace-loving sage Liara imagined would've been kind of a pill.

I love it when he sends me an email that starts with a deprecation of the mailing system itself XD

[Oni Changas]

I'd prefer they would be what ME wnd ME2 led us to believe but he isnt bad at all. Though the primitives crap got old fast. I hate characters that are just enabled to be jackasses. Doesn't make you badass. Zaeed and Wrex werent ****s or uppity, yet still stand outside the Cult of Shepard mold.

[Han Shot First]

I thought Javik was one of the Bioware's best characters.

The reveal that the Protheans weren't the enlightened race that everyone imagined them to be was great.

Skullheart wrote...

Makes Liara looks like an incompetent/naive asari, check.

Except he doesn't do that at all.

Liara's view of the Protheans didn't make her an outlier in academic circles. She was voicing the consensus of not only scientific opinion, but of the entire galaxy. The Hanar even viewed the Protheans with religious reverence.

Until Javik is awakened no one knew that the Protheans were a bunch of imperialistic jerks that assimilated 'lesser' species.

If I were to go back in time and prove to both Plato and Aristotle that the universe was not geocentric (everything in the cosmos orbits Earth), I would not turn either man into a fool. They were of course wrong about Earth being the center of the universe, but they were still two of the most brilliant men of classical Greece, and their opinions fit within the consensus of what the ancient world thought it knew about the cosmos.

[Cainhurst Crow]

The protheans had the same treatment that knights, or samurai, or any of the ancient warriors have been given by our own modern society as time has gone on. They were brutal warriors, the best of the best at slaughter on a mass scale, and were some pretty damned evil people at times. But history usually forgets those parts and emphasizes the good parts, such as their sense of honor, their chivalry, their legends, their accomplishments. We make up tales of their exploits and use them as stories to tell our future generations, we romanticize and fictionalize them to tell whatever story we want and have them act in a way we would like, good or bad.

That was only of a civilization from a few thousand or hundreds of years ago, I imagine the same thing, happening to a civilization that is 50,000 years forgotten, would have at least some form of similar treatment, especially without most of their historical records left to examine.

[The Night Mammoth]

I did find his constant arrogance and bluntness a little tiring at times, but I sill liked him. A clear product of his time, his bluntness was often insightful and appropriate, and he was funny.

[PwrdOff]

Han Shot First wrote...

I thought Javik was one of the Bioware's best characters.

The reveal that the Protheans weren't the enlightened race that everyone imagined them to be was great.

Skullheart wrote...

Makes Liara looks like an incompetent/naive asari, check.

Except he doesn't do that at all.

Liara's view of the Protheans didn't make her an outlier in academic circles. She was voicing the consensus of not only scientific opinion, but of the entire galaxy. The Hanar even viewed the Protheans with religious reverence.

Until Javik is awakened no one knew that the Protheans were a bunch of imperialistic jerks that assimilated 'lesser' species.

If I were to go back in time and prove to both Plato and Aristotle that the universe was not geocentric (everything in the cosmos orbits Earth), I would not turn either man into a fool. They were of course wrong about Earth being the center of the universe, but they were still two of the most brilliant men of classical Greece, and their opinions fit within the consensus of what the ancient world thought it knew about the cosmos.

It's not just that though, Liara seems to overly worship and idealize the Protheans which clouds her judgement and keeps her from looking at them objectively.  Granted, this is probably not all too uncommon among really dedicated scholars, but it's hardly healthy behavior. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Liara was an academic scholar. Javik's existence doesn't make her stupid. It makes the entire academic community way too optimistic and naive about the Protheans. Yes, the Hanar worship them as gods.

Javik brought a great perspective to the story especially for a renegon Shepard. I did find his arrogance a bit tiring, however, and I think Shepard should have had a word with him.

[TheBlackBaron]

Personally, I'm quite glad we got the Roman Empire instead of Roddenberry's Federation. The former is probably much closer what a galaxy-spanning empire would actually be like.

[MrDizazta]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

I can't speak for Javik himself as I haven't played From Ashes yet, but the appearance retcon is kind of annoying.

I feel they did this because of how the Collectors looked, seeing as they are Protheans after years of genetic manipulation.

[Texhnolyze101]

Gulaman wrote...

Intelligent, enlightened, a force of good for the galaxy. I wanted our Prothean squad mate to be more like the Vigil AI. Boy was I disappointed with Javik and his arrogant, bloodthirsty character. And it's not as if he's the way he is because of the Reaper slaughter of his people. By all accounts the Protheans were jerks anyway and them getting wiped out isn't the tragedy we were led to believe it was. I can't reconcile a warmongering race of idiots with the intelligent beings that helped Shepard's quest long after their death, with the beacons, the Conduit etc. That's just me though. Maybe I've watched too much Star Trek in my time.

How did you feel about the true Protheans, or at least, as represented by Javik?

I like javik and am glad he wasn't like how the races of the galaxy thought they were because then they would be straight up boring and i wouldn't even waste my time recruiting one if it did.

Modifié par 101ezylonhxeT, 03 avril 2013 - 06:35 .

[ZLurps]

I were preferred if BW were left Protheans alone, but I can understand comedy value of character.

[CDR David Shepard]

This thread makes me glad I never downloaded his DLC.

Definitely wouldn't care for his character at all.

[rapscallioness]

"Prothean no like you!"

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

Dat plot twist. Dat Liara standing here like an idiot. Dat Zaeed with four eyes.

Javik is the best squaddie in terms of character depth ever. On par with Legion and Samara.

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

Interesting how the most Renegade squadmate is also the biggest failure, isn't it?

How is Javik a failure? And how in the world is he supposed to be the biggest failure?

[Rovay]

Personally I like Javik a lot. Finally a proper Renegade character with personal depth. Would still swap him for a Renegade Batarian in a heartbeat though.

As for Proteans as a whole, I kinda wish they were never mentioned after ME 1, save for some references.

[Kabraxal]

Honestly, it was okay by itself... but then they added in yet another galactic empire in the Leviathans that were tyrants to enslave all and after that is just became clear Bioware wanted to darken up the series. The original endings and comments about galactic wastelands just prove that some of their writers are too infatuated with angst and darkness as is the case with many stories in many mediums right now... this weird "only angst can be truly artistic" is just getting tiring.

[remydat]

Javik is like your old racist uncle whose opinions are competely off base with the current reality but who people tolerate because he is so hilariously racist that you can't do anything but laugh.

[chemiclord]

I liked how Javik's character was a bit of a needling at how we (as civilizations) tend to idolize and deify our history, and that the reality was rarely as glorious as we like to pretend it was.

Modifié par chemiclord, 03 avril 2013 - 10:44 .

[Knight of Dane]

Eh, I'd have liked for them to remain a mystery.

[David7204]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Interesting how the most Renegade squadmate is also the biggest failure, isn't it?

How is Javik a failure? And how in the world is he supposed to be the biggest failure?

I'll just copy and paste this.

I completely understand that Shepard probably would not have succeeded either in Javik's situation. But would have it ever gotten to the point where Shepard is willing to forget about his or her friends - to stop caring- out of anguish or shame? 1984 made an interesting point of showing that to be the ultimate betrayal.

Shepard: And you don't want to remember that?
Javik: Imagine if everyone you knew was dead. You could not remember their faces, or the color of the sky above your home. The memories were gone, but so was the pain. Would you want to remember that, Commander? Even if it meant watching everyone die again?

Modifié par David7204, 04 avril 2013 - 12:35 .

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

I'll just copy and paste this.

I completely understand that Shepard probably would not have succeeded either in Javik's situation. But would have it ever gotten to the point where Shepard is willing to forget about his or her friends - to stop caring- out of anguish or shame? 1984 made an interesting point of showing that to be the ultimate betrayal.

Assuming time is indeed cyclical like the Catalyst and Vendetta propose, then yes. Also, congratulations for 1984? I don't see how that novel making a retroactive counter argument against Javik somehow renders his opinion null. It's Orwell's opinion versus Javik's. One is not inherently better or more "moral" than the other. How does any of this make Javik a "failure"?

Shepard: And you don't want to remember that?
Javik: Imagine if everyone you knew was dead. You could not remember their faces, or the color of the sky above your home. The memories were gone, but so was the pain. Would you want to remember that, Commander? Even if it meant watching everyone die again?

I'm with Javik on this one. I would rather forget the memory and let it rest than relive it with the near-perfect accuracy Javik seems to have.

Modifié par o Ventus, 04 avril 2013 - 02:46 .

[Suron]

Javik is both cool..and not.

he's a contradiction of his own words.

he was born well into the Reaper invasion...yet still somehow knows all the "primitive" races and what they were like DESPITE STATING that all research stopped when the Reaper's hit.

all his time woulda been spent training and fighting...not taking history lessons on races that don't even matter to the Protheans at that point in time.