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[CosmicGnosis]

Shortly after finishing ME3, I concluded that the endings could basically interpreted like this:

Destroy = Chaos
Control = Order
Synthesis = Balance

In fact, the Reaper on Rannoch declares that they represent order and organics represent chaos. It can't be anymore clear than that. I suppose, then, that Synthesis can be interpreted as some kind of balance between order and chaos, synthetic and organic.

This was my interpretation before I got on the Internet and experienced people's visceral hatred of Synthesis. At that point, arguing that Synthesis represented any kind of balance seemed pointless.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 31 mars 2013 - 04:56 .

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

But what does that entail?

[ThinkSharp]

Sure, that's a logical interpretation of the symbolism in the endings, but I don't think it's the symbolism that bothers people. It's the concrete details.

You have to understand that a big argument against Synthesis as feasible is that "it's what the Reapers wanted all along." (As shown through all the reaper tech installed in antagonists like Saren and TIM.) The catalyst even confirms that, "We've tried it before, but it can't be forced." Synthesis may be different from that, but there isn't any real support leading up to it in the narrative. You have to take it on the word of the Starkid alone. Out of left field. That's why it seems to fly in the face of the rest of the series.

The symbolism helps give it meaning, but that's not where the problem for many people lies.

If an "understanding" could be achieved between the two beings without forceably altering the fabric of their being, it probably wouldn't seem like such a huge deal. However, that would just be indoctrination, wouldn't it?

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 31 mars 2013 - 05:00 .

[Steelcan]

I think that's because synthesis is imposing a new situation on organics and synthetics. It is a balance only in that it eliminates the differences that would supposedly make us destroy ourselves.

Destroy is more of an affirmation that we can overcome any obstacle, and Control is using the Reapers for our own purposes. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between organics and synthetics.

[CosmicGnosis]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

But what does that entail?

Well, it's probably just what kind of society that you prefer. Organics are chaotic, synthetics are orderly, and a synthesis of the two would unite both perspectives. It's simplistic, but it kind of works. Of course, it makes Synthesis the obvious "best ending".

[ForThessia]

Destroy- Freedom
Control- Oppression
Synthesis- 

Destroy- Certainty
Control- Risk
Synthesis-

Destroy- Consistency
Control- Hypocrisy 
Synthesis-

There are many ways to interpret the endings.....

[Steelcan]

Your bias is plainly evident ForThessia.  This isn't a Synthesis hate thread 

Modifié par Steelcan, 31 mars 2013 - 05:01 .

[dreamgazer]

Is this "chaos" bad?

Is this "order" good?

Is this the "correct" way to balance the universe?

But yes, it's pretty obvious that it's the dichotomy the Catalyst wants you to take away from the conversation.

[ForThessia]

Steelcan wrote...

Your bias is plainly evident ForThessia.  This isn't a Synthesis hate thread 

Hmmm, I didn't realize that before:whistle:

[ThinkSharp]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

But what does that entail?

Well, it's probably just what kind of society that you prefer. Organics are chaotic, synthetics are orderly, and a synthesis of the two would unite both perspectives. It's simplistic, but it kind of works. Of course, it makes Synthesis the obvious "best ending".

It's not that simple, especially if you take EC into account. Control doesn't make everyone synthetic; it simply puts synthetics under Shepard's control. Destroy keeps things, for the most part, "normal" meaning there's the chaos we live every day, but it's not a free-for-all.

[Saberchic]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Shortly after finishing ME3, I concluded that the endings could basically interpreted like this:

Destroy = Chaos
Control = Order
Synthesis = Balance

I think that's a too simplistic view of it and not really accurate. 

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

ForThessia wrote...

Destroy- Freedom to Oppress
Control- Freedom from Oppression
Synthesis- 

Destroy- Turmoil
Control- Stability
Synthesis-

Destroy- Narrow-mindedness
Control- Open-mindedness
Synthesis-

There are many ways to interpret the endings.....

Indeed, there are.

[JasonShepard]

I think each ending has a mixture of flavours.

Synthesis comes with Balance, yes, but also with an healthy dosage of transhumanism and self-sacrifice, as well as a massive moral dilemma.
Control shares the self-sacrifice theme, but also has Order and power, and questions of identity.
Destroy certainly has Chaos, but also self-determinism and defiance, as well as victory through sacrifice.

Frankly, I like that aspect of the final choice - it allows players to take what they want from whichever ending they pick. (For example, I take the self-sacrifice theme of Control with the questions of self-identity, but discard the Order and power overtones.)

Modifié par JasonShepard, 31 mars 2013 - 05:07 .

[cyrslash1974]

Destroy = chaos ?
I disagree.

Reapers were chaos for me. All synthetics which wanted to fight against organics were controlled by reapers, whatever the catalyst said.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

But what does that entail?

I belive that entails that destroy is a chaotic anarchic path with the most freedom, control is a rigid and ordered path with the least freedom, and synthesis is the middle ground of freedom and security, but is also giving up portions of both equally.

None are really better than the other because each asks for upholding of an ideal at the cost of the others. It's up to you, the player or your shepard, what ideal they would uphold the most.

There isn't a "this option is the best everyone else is a retard" type ending, which this fanbase seems desperatly to want.

[robertthebard]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Shortly after finishing ME3, I concluded that the endings could basically interpreted like this:

Destroy = Chaos
Control = Order
Synthesis = Balance

In fact, the Reaper on Rannoch declares that they represent order and organics represent chaos. It can't be anymore clear than that. I suppose, then, that Synthesis can be interpreted as some kind of balance between order and chaos, synthetic and organic.

This was my interpretation before I got on the Internet and experienced people's visceral hatred of Synthesis. At that point, arguing that Synthesis represented any kind of balance seemed pointless.

Of course the Reapers claim to be order, and, in fact, if we look at history, we'll see that some of the worst dictators historically all felt the same way.  I guess they were right after all?  More accurate:

Destroy:  No more Reapers to tell us "It's my way or the highway".  Of course, the "my way" is to wipe us off the face of the galaxy, retire to dark space, and come back in about 50,000 years to do it all again.

Control:  GodShep to dictate how the galaxy will develop.  Another "my way or the highway" scenario.

Synthesis:  The spacemagic rape of the entire galaxy, including those that would not have been involved in the war at all.

Refusal:  Genocide on a scale that makes Destroy look like you ran over an ant with your car.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

ThinkSharp wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

But what does that entail?

Well, it's probably just what kind of society that you prefer. Organics are chaotic, synthetics are orderly, and a synthesis of the two would unite both perspectives. It's simplistic, but it kind of works. Of course, it makes Synthesis the obvious "best ending".

It's not that simple, especially if you take EC into account. Control doesn't make everyone synthetic; it simply puts synthetics under Shepard's control. Destroy keeps things, for the most part, "normal" meaning there's the chaos we live every day, but it's not a free-for-all.

It's a free-for-all in the systems without relay access. Given how long it would take to restore the network in the more distant systems, you're going to have quite a bit of anarchy for a while. You'll likely have to pacify the populace.

[ThinkSharp]

JasonShepard wrote...

Frankly, I like that aspect of the final choice - it allows players to take what they want from whichever ending they pick. (For example, I take the self-sacrifice theme of Control with the questions of self-identity, but discard the Order and power overtones.)

Off-topic here, but have you played a Paragon Control ending or a Renegade one? Paragon emphasizes self-sacrifice while Renegade emphasizes power. I experienced the renegade version first and just couldn't swallow it, but the Paragon Control ending is probably my favorite ending out of all of them. Funny how a few sentences and this emphasis makes all the difference.

I'm with you. I like the nuance.

[TheBlackBaron]

JasonShepard wrote...

I think each ending has a mixture of flavours.

Synthesis comes with Balance, yes, but also with an healthy dosage of transhumanism and self-sacrifice, as well as a massive moral dilemma.
Control shares the self-sacrifice theme, but also has Order and power, and questions of identity.
Destroy certainly has Chaos, but also self-determinism and defiance, as well as victory through sacrifice.

Frankly, I like that aspect of the final choice - it allows players to take what they want from whichever ending they pick. (For example, I take the self-sacrifice theme of Control with the questions of self-identity, but discard the Order and power overtones.)

I like this human, he understands. 

I don't think you can neatly fit the endings onto a D&D alignment scale. Depending on alignment and personal philosopy and interpretation any of them can fit into "Chaos", "Order", or "Balance". 

[robertthebard]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

ThinkSharp wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

But what does that entail?

Well, it's probably just what kind of society that you prefer. Organics are chaotic, synthetics are orderly, and a synthesis of the two would unite both perspectives. It's simplistic, but it kind of works. Of course, it makes Synthesis the obvious "best ending".

It's not that simple, especially if you take EC into account. Control doesn't make everyone synthetic; it simply puts synthetics under Shepard's control. Destroy keeps things, for the most part, "normal" meaning there's the chaos we live every day, but it's not a free-for-all.

It's a free-for-all in the systems without relay access. Given how long it would take to restore the network in the more distant systems, you're going to have quite a bit of anarchy for a while. You'll likely have to pacify the populace.

You mean to say that life would be pretty much what it was 150 years ago or so?  Yeah, I can see how that might be nightmarish, having to make sure you have food and shelter.  I can't speak for everyone here, but I worked for a living, which means, I was doing exactly that.  I had a family too, that I was responsible for.  The problem with your scenario is that while the tech may indeed be adversely affected, not everyone that knows anything about fixing it is trapped in the Sol system.  It won't be repair by attrition.  Pockets of people everywhere will be doing what they can to restore their tech.

[themikefest]

I interpret as

Destroy--reapers dead.
Control--reapers still alive
Synthesis--reapers still alive
Refusal--reapers win in this cycle and die in the next cycle.

[JasonShepard]

ThinkSharp wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...

Frankly, I like that aspect of the final choice - it allows players to take what they want from whichever ending they pick. (For example, I take the self-sacrifice theme of Control with the questions of self-identity, but discard the Order and power overtones.)

Off-topic here, but have you played a Paragon Control ending or a Renegade one? Paragon emphasizes self-sacrifice while Renegade emphasizes power. I experienced the renegade version first and just couldn't swallow it, but the Paragon Control ending is probably my favorite ending out of all of them. Funny how a few sentences and this emphasis makes all the difference.

I'm with you. I like the nuance.

Paragon Control. I have seen both. In the original ending, I picked Destroy*, more out of general confusion than anything else. Once I'd had time to think on the choice, I went back and picked Control the next day. Metagaming? A bit, but this was pre-EC. Had the EC been there when I started, I probably would have picked Control from the get-go.

*I still got the self-sacrifice theme in Destroy though, since this was back when it was impossible to get the breath scene in single-player, and the Catalyst pretty much tells you that you'll die...

Modifié par JasonShepard, 31 mars 2013 - 05:17 .

[Taboo]

This is the only appropriate answer that I can give:

https://encrypted-tb...-cNHgApD37jfEhA

[Wayning_Star]

it appears that bioware blames mother nature for chaos, organics seem to need order to create synthetic life form, inadvertently.

reapers are never dead really, only their contents.

reapers cannot 'win' as they're unable to actually lose.

[Wayning_Star]

Taboo-XX wrote...

This is the only appropriate answer that I can give:

https://encrypted-tb...-cNHgApD37jfEhA

when it reigns it poors?

strange...