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Destroy = Chaos, Control = Order, Synthesis = Balance; Couldn't they be as simple as that?


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#26
ruggly

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I'd be up for the balance aspect if I didn't have to force it on everyone.

#27
MegaSovereign

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I fail to see how Synthesis is a balance of chaos and order.

Synthesis is the ultimate form of control. Changing everyone to avoid chaos, that's why it's the ideal solution to the Catalyst.

#28
Auld Wulf

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Steelcan wrote...

I think that's because synthesis is imposing a new situation on organics and synthetics. It is a balance only in that it eliminates the differences that would supposedly make us destroy ourselves.

Yes, but it's important to understand the nature of the simple difference that Synthesis gleefully elminates.

Pre-Synthesis: People are separated by delimitation. In other words, what a person can or cannot do.
Post-Synthesis: People are separated by choice. In other words, what a person chooses to do or not do.

Let's toss in some pratical examples.

Pre-Synthesis: Joker doesn't run because Joker cannot run.
Post-Synthesis: Joker can run because he is able to and he chooses to.

And some more.

Pre-Synthesis: Synthetics are unable to fully embrace happiness or sadness.
Post-Synthesis: Synthetics can choose to fully embrace happiness or sadness.

And more.

Pre-Synthesis: Donovan Hock is unable to leave the grey box.
Post-Synthesis: Donovan Hock can choose to leave the grey box.

Again, Synthesis changes one, simple variable about the nature of the Universe. There is a certain tyranny to how things are now that invites a hierarchy of domination, those who can above those who can't, those who have over those who have not. Synthesis changes that variable to those who choose A, those who choose B, those who choose C and so on. It removes the hierarchy of domination.

Why is that important?

Every cycle has an apex race. Without Synthesis, every cycle will have an apex race. Someone has to be at the top.

Leviathans; Protheans; Asari, take your pick. It's acknowledged many times that whilst the asari rule with a smile, they still pull all the strings, they have the greatest technological advancements, the most potent biotic abilities, the longest lives, and the oldest culture. The asari are privileged by chance. The protheans took a shine to the asari and made them something of a pet project, improving them, making sure that they would dominate the next cycle. And they did exactly that, and this hierarchy of domination goes from the asari at the top, to the less fortunate and more oppressed species and races at the bottom.

Admittedly, yes, the asari domination is the kindest of the three we know of, but it is still the same. The asari pull the strings, and ultimately, it's what the asari choose that matters the most. They have the most clout.

Everyone wants to be in that seat.

If you pay close attention to Mass Effect 2, everyone wants to top the asari. Miranda was an attempt to create a "perfect" human, Jack was an attempt to create a "perfect" biotic, and most importantly, Grunt was created to be a "perfect" krogan. It's interesting that these examples come from races which are less privileged initially, like humanity and the krogan peoples. The lower on the rungs you are, the more desperate you become. This is where the threat of synthetics comes from, not from synthetics themselves, but from the organic desire to be the best that's imprinted upon them.

Organics on the lower rungs are more likely to create more dangerous things to give them an edge. I speculate that the quarians might have felt that they deserved a better position in life, which is why they created a slave race (the geth). The purpose of the geth was to make life better for the quarians, to move them up the rungs of galactic society, so that the quarians could show off their synthetic servants as a form of one-upmanship. I speculate that the reason the quarians reacted so negatively to the awakening of the geth is because they felt that the geth might also become better than them, leaving them in the dirt. (And they acted on that fear.)

So everyone is struggling to be the top, to be the best. It's the loveliness of natural selection at its finest and the tyranny of nature, because we're not all created in a way where we'd be capable of doing things that others are. And then things like sickness, flaws, defects, and so on damn people even further. The domination of hierarchy continues to support this in both reality and the Mass Effect Universe, with rich people getting access to the best that medical science has to offer before everyone else.

Synthesis empowers.

It provides an equal footing and removes the apex race by rewriting people in such a way that everyone has access to the boons of everyone else, so that everyone is capable. Illness is removed (we see this with EDI leaning against Joker, and Joker not grunting and doubling over), and people are upgraded so that there is a greater sense of equality. With equality comes familiarity, and it's hard to enforce a hierarchy when you see people as being capable of the same as you are. This, in turn, along with the galactic consensus ushers in a new age of empathetic understanding. For the first time, there aren't groups of people defined by circumstance, there are groups of people defined by choice.

This is further backed up by the notion that organics can then integrate technology into them. Kasumi integrates her boyfriend and he becomes real through her. It also means that people can effectively change themselves and become waht they want, there are no barriers between dream and reality. The next step here is the Singularity, but that's a topic for another time. Ultimately though, in a Synthesis future, the difference between you and I isn't that I may be less than you because of my illness, but that I choose differently than you.

Synthesis doesn't stop an architect from being an architect. It doesn't change their mind. It doesn't take away their ability. It just allows more people to be architects, if they so desire.

#29
Auld Wulf

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ForThessia wrote...

Destroy- Freedom
Control- Oppression
Synthesis- :sick:

Destroy- Certainty
Control- Risk
Synthesis-:sick:

Destroy- Consistency
Control- Hypocrisy 
Synthesis-:sick:

There are many ways to interpret the endings.....

Sooomeone has issues with their fears and inner demons. Terrified of the future, and of the unknown.

You'd be surprised how close to Synthesis we're actually getting in some regards. I kind of wonder whether if I bought you a subscription to Nature, every single journal would make you barf.

#30
Leonardo the Magnificent

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robertthebard wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

It's a free-for-all in the systems without relay access. Given how long it would take to restore the network in the more distant systems, you're going to have quite a bit of anarchy for a while. You'll likely have to pacify the populace.

You mean to say that life would be pretty much what it was 150 years ago or so?  Yeah, I can see how that might be nightmarish, having to make sure you have food and shelter.  I can't speak for everyone here, but I worked for a living, which means, I was doing exactly that.  I had a family too, that I was responsible for.  The problem with your scenario is that while the tech may indeed be adversely affected, not everyone that knows anything about fixing it is trapped in the Sol system.  It won't be repair by attrition.  Pockets of people everywhere will be doing what they can to restore their tech.


This isn't as simple as "working for a living," nor would it be akin to the situation 150 years ago. You're having specialized, and often dependant, pockets almost entirely cut-off from the rest of the galaxy. Billions of people immediately left in the dark. You're not just jumping back in time, you're removing the foundation of society. It'd be like if modern transportation and communication was suddenly taken down and would have to be repaired manually. The effects would be catastrophic.

#31
Wayning_Star

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ruggly wrote...

I'd be up for the balance aspect if I didn't have to force it on everyone.



yeah, that does seem to upend balance when forcing. But, to me, the story forces everything, even the finality.

In a way, the justification is the matter of altering to the point of creation, that would actually be similar to nature it's self, that doesn't really 'give' many choices, or is exempt from responsibility for the presentation.

If synthesis tailoring nature at it's core/basis,etc.. then it could be considered natural to those unaware of the changes. Given the chaotic nature of deep space and it's contents, beings of all kinds are affected, regardless of choice, knowledge dependent. Probably just a matter of benefits vs. contemporary thoughts/knowledge.

We did go to Mars and uproot the technology, even though we had NO knowledge of it's origin. Didn't care..

Would anyone do that if they 'knew' of the reaperships and catalyst program, or even Leviathan for that matter?

#32
Wayning_Star

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Auld Wulf wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

Destroy- Freedom
Control- Oppression
Synthesis- :sick:

Destroy- Certainty
Control- Risk
Synthesis-:sick:

Destroy- Consistency
Control- Hypocrisy 
Synthesis-:sick:

There are many ways to interpret the endings.....

Sooomeone has issues with their fears and inner demons. Terrified of the future, and of the unknown.

You'd be surprised how close to Synthesis we're actually getting in some regards. I kind of wonder whether if I bought you a subscription to Nature, every single journal would make you barf.


I hate inner demons.. they scare me. (that poster is teasing, lol)

#33
Wayning_Star

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MegaSovereign wrote...

I fail to see how Synthesis is a balance of chaos and order.

Synthesis is the ultimate form of control. Changing everyone to avoid chaos, that's why it's the ideal solution to the Catalyst.


probably why the organic Levi created it?

#34
robertthebard

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Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

It's a free-for-all in the systems without relay access. Given how long it would take to restore the network in the more distant systems, you're going to have quite a bit of anarchy for a while. You'll likely have to pacify the populace.

You mean to say that life would be pretty much what it was 150 years ago or so?  Yeah, I can see how that might be nightmarish, having to make sure you have food and shelter.  I can't speak for everyone here, but I worked for a living, which means, I was doing exactly that.  I had a family too, that I was responsible for.  The problem with your scenario is that while the tech may indeed be adversely affected, not everyone that knows anything about fixing it is trapped in the Sol system.  It won't be repair by attrition.  Pockets of people everywhere will be doing what they can to restore their tech.


This isn't as simple as "working for a living," nor would it be akin to the situation 150 years ago. You're having specialized, and often dependant, pockets almost entirely cut-off from the rest of the galaxy. Billions of people immediately left in the dark. You're not just jumping back in time, you're removing the foundation of society. It'd be like if modern transportation and communication was suddenly taken down and would have to be repaired manually. The effects would be catastrophic.

No, it actually wouldn't be that bad.  We'd have no internet, no phones, don't know if our cars would be affected since they really aren't that high tech yet, but even assuming they were, I get by w/out my car a lot.  Mainly because it's old, and prone to breaking down.  The tech is damaged, but not beyond repair, and the knowledge to fix it isn't affected at all.  There would be some most definite WTF just happened time, but after that, repairs would progress.

There would be no FTL travel, so individual solar systems would be on their own until they get it repaired.  However, that's all it's going to take, repairing it.  They would not have to start from scratch.  At least depending on your EMS.  A low EMS Destroy might well be what you are predicting, or close.  But a high EMS Destroy wouldn't be nearly as bad as you're painting it.

#35
ForThessia

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Auld Wulf wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

Destroy- Freedom
Control- Oppression
Synthesis- :sick:

Destroy- Certainty
Control- Risk
Synthesis-:sick:

Destroy- Consistency
Control- Hypocrisy 
Synthesis-:sick:

There are many ways to interpret the endings.....

Sooomeone has issues with their fears and inner demons. Terrified of the future, and of the unknown.

There is no reason why someone should be allowed to make a choice of that magnitude for an entire galaxy. Destroying the Reapers is what the Humans, Asari, Salarians, Turians, etc were fighting for, and for Shepard to go up there and decide that he knows best after a 10 minute conversation with the enemy is a complete and utter betrayal.

#36
Wayning_Star

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Auld Wulf wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I think that's because synthesis is imposing a new situation on organics and synthetics. It is a balance only in that it eliminates the differences that would supposedly make us destroy ourselves.

Yes, but it's important to understand the nature of the simple difference that Synthesis gleefully elminates.

Pre-Synthesis: People are separated by delimitation. In other words, what a person can or cannot do.
Post-Synthesis: People are separated by choice. In other words, what a person chooses to do or not do.

Let's toss in some pratical examples.

Pre-Synthesis: Joker doesn't run because Joker cannot run.
Post-Synthesis: Joker can run because he is able to and he chooses to.

And some more.

Pre-Synthesis: Synthetics are unable to fully embrace happiness or sadness.
Post-Synthesis: Synthetics can choose to fully embrace happiness or sadness.

And more.

Pre-Synthesis: Donovan Hock is unable to leave the grey box.
Post-Synthesis: Donovan Hock can choose to leave the grey box.

Again, Synthesis changes one, simple variable about the nature of the Universe. There is a certain tyranny to how things are now that invites a hierarchy of domination, those who can above those who can't, those who have over those who have not. Synthesis changes that variable to those who choose A, those who choose B, those who choose C and so on. It removes the hierarchy of domination.

Why is that important?

Every cycle has an apex race. Without Synthesis, every cycle will have an apex race. Someone has to be at the top.

Leviathans; Protheans; Asari, take your pick. It's acknowledged many times that whilst the asari rule with a smile, they still pull all the strings, they have the greatest technological advancements, the most potent biotic abilities, the longest lives, and the oldest culture. The asari are privileged by chance. The protheans took a shine to the asari and made them something of a pet project, improving them, making sure that they would dominate the next cycle. And they did exactly that, and this hierarchy of domination goes from the asari at the top, to the less fortunate and more oppressed species and races at the bottom.

Admittedly, yes, the asari domination is the kindest of the three we know of, but it is still the same. The asari pull the strings, and ultimately, it's what the asari choose that matters the most. They have the most clout.

Everyone wants to be in that seat.

If you pay close attention to Mass Effect 2, everyone wants to top the asari. Miranda was an attempt to create a "perfect" human, Jack was an attempt to create a "perfect" biotic, and most importantly, Grunt was created to be a "perfect" krogan. It's interesting that these examples come from races which are less privileged initially, like humanity and the krogan peoples. The lower on the rungs you are, the more desperate you become. This is where the threat of synthetics comes from, not from synthetics themselves, but from the organic desire to be the best that's imprinted upon them.

Organics on the lower rungs are more likely to create more dangerous things to give them an edge. I speculate that the quarians might have felt that they deserved a better position in life, which is why they created a slave race (the geth). The purpose of the geth was to make life better for the quarians, to move them up the rungs of galactic society, so that the quarians could show off their synthetic servants as a form of one-upmanship. I speculate that the reason the quarians reacted so negatively to the awakening of the geth is because they felt that the geth might also become better than them, leaving them in the dirt. (And they acted on that fear.)

So everyone is struggling to be the top, to be the best. It's the loveliness of natural selection at its finest and the tyranny of nature, because we're not all created in a way where we'd be capable of doing things that others are. And then things like sickness, flaws, defects, and so on damn people even further. The domination of hierarchy continues to support this in both reality and the Mass Effect Universe, with rich people getting access to the best that medical science has to offer before everyone else.

Synthesis empowers.

It provides an equal footing and removes the apex race by rewriting people in such a way that everyone has access to the boons of everyone else, so that everyone is capable. Illness is removed (we see this with EDI leaning against Joker, and Joker not grunting and doubling over), and people are upgraded so that there is a greater sense of equality. With equality comes familiarity, and it's hard to enforce a hierarchy when you see people as being capable of the same as you are. This, in turn, along with the galactic consensus ushers in a new age of empathetic understanding. For the first time, there aren't groups of people defined by circumstance, there are groups of people defined by choice.

This is further backed up by the notion that organics can then integrate technology into them. Kasumi integrates her boyfriend and he becomes real through her. It also means that people can effectively change themselves and become waht they want, there are no barriers between dream and reality. The next step here is the Singularity, but that's a topic for another time. Ultimately though, in a Synthesis future, the difference between you and I isn't that I may be less than you because of my illness, but that I choose differently than you.

Synthesis doesn't stop an architect from being an architect. It doesn't change their mind. It doesn't take away their ability. It just allows more people to be architects, if they so desire.





ever hear that saying: the bigger you are, the harder you fall?

some 'little people' don't really want/need to be 'bigger people'.  But then, it's just a matter of awareness. Isn't it?

The more you know, the more you learn, that you need to know more..lol

#37
Wayning_Star

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Technology is Awesome!!

#38
JasonShepard

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Auld Wulf wrote...

Pre-Synthesis: Synthetics are unable to fully embrace happiness or sadness.
Post-Synthesis: Synthetics can choose to fully embrace happiness or sadness.


I disagree - this point is up for debate. EDI certainly seems to display both beforehand - they just come more naturally afterwards.

Pre-Synthesis: Donovan Hock is unable to leave the grey box.
Post-Synthesis: Donovan Hock can choose to leave the grey box.


I think you mean Keiji. Although there is the question whether it is  Keiji, or a copy. I doubt all of his memories and personality were in that thing.

I do, however, agree with the general nature of your post. Synthesis does empower. However, it doesn't offer people a choice over whether they want to be empowered. For example, given the choice, I rather like my body the way it is. And I know I wouldn't be the only person in the MEU to feel that way. And that was I why (personally) couldn't pick it.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 31 mars 2013 - 05:43 .


#39
Falaxe

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Who wants to live in a world wich is only Order/Balance? There has to be chaos of those, or system wont work...

Modifié par Falaxe, 31 mars 2013 - 05:41 .


#40
ruggly

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Wayning_Star wrote...

ruggly wrote...

I'd be up for the balance aspect if I didn't have to force it on everyone.



yeah, that does seem to upend balance when forcing. But, to me, the story forces everything, even the finality.

In a way, the justification is the matter of altering to the point of creation, that would actually be similar to nature it's self, that doesn't really 'give' many choices, or is exempt from responsibility for the presentation.

If synthesis tailoring nature at it's core/basis,etc.. then it could be considered natural to those unaware of the changes. Given the chaotic nature of deep space and it's contents, beings of all kinds are affected, regardless of choice, knowledge dependent. Probably just a matter of benefits vs. contemporary thoughts/knowledge.

We did go to Mars and uproot the technology, even though we had NO knowledge of it's origin. Didn't care..

Would anyone do that if they 'knew' of the reaperships and catalyst program, or even Leviathan for that matter?


The story does do that indeed. 

But how could you not notice the changes, such as the Turian scene in the EC epilogue.  Green beam washes over them and they immediately notice the changes.  Some people may jump for joy over the changes, but we never hear about those would feel absolutely violated over it, either.  The ME3 Geth wouldn't care, since they're all about becoming more "human," or whatever the proper term would be.

Anyways, what I'm trying to get at is that with all the possible downsides that I see, it may do more to upset the balance at first than to help it.  Nor can you force it, in my opinion.

Modifié par ruggly, 31 mars 2013 - 05:44 .


#41
dreamgazer

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MegaSovereign wrote...

I fail to see how Synthesis is a balance of chaos and order.

Synthesis is the ultimate form of control. Changing everyone to avoid chaos, that's why it's the ideal solution to the Catalyst.


Chaos will still exist, just not that specific brand of predetermined chaos. Hell, synthesis will likely create new types of chaos with all these opened doors. The possibilities are, indeed, endless.

As far as balance? I'd say implementing a universal change to all organic life is both chaotic and controlling.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 31 mars 2013 - 05:48 .


#42
Wayning_Star

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ForThessia wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

Destroy- Freedom
Control- Oppression
Synthesis- :sick:

Destroy- Certainty
Control- Risk
Synthesis-:sick:

Destroy- Consistency
Control- Hypocrisy 
Synthesis-:sick:

There are many ways to interpret the endings.....

Sooomeone has issues with their fears and inner demons. Terrified of the future, and of the unknown.

There is no reason why someone should be allowed to make a choice of that magnitude for an entire galaxy. Destroying the Reapers is what the Humans, Asari, Salarians, Turians, etc were fighting for, and for Shepard to go up there and decide that he knows best after a 10 minute conversation with the enemy is a complete and utter betrayal.


Why build the crucible? That's where the problem started, well..maybe Mars, but who's complaining about that?

Actually, if you think about Shep only gets to 'carry on' the decision was pre made by organics in need of piece in the region. Technically, organics started the supposed War with reaperships/catalyst, when they built the things.

Organics alter nature all the time, incidentally. The problem in the MEU, is that this incremental change, alters the entire MEU, forcing an issue of regulation. How that regulation is ordered, and it's magnitude is up for debate, but not much of one. Apparently, it's eventual anyway, to foil any self determination. But that very self determination brought it all on.

#43
Guest_Puddi III_*

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Synthesis seems like the kind of balance that moves all the weight to the center and bypasses the actual scale.

#44
Leonardo the Magnificent

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robertthebard wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

It's a free-for-all in the systems without relay access. Given how long it would take to restore the network in the more distant systems, you're going to have quite a bit of anarchy for a while. You'll likely have to pacify the populace.

You mean to say that life would be pretty much what it was 150 years ago or so?  Yeah, I can see how that might be nightmarish, having to make sure you have food and shelter.  I can't speak for everyone here, but I worked for a living, which means, I was doing exactly that.  I had a family too, that I was responsible for.  The problem with your scenario is that while the tech may indeed be adversely affected, not everyone that knows anything about fixing it is trapped in the Sol system.  It won't be repair by attrition.  Pockets of people everywhere will be doing what they can to restore their tech.


This isn't as simple as "working for a living," nor would it be akin to the situation 150 years ago. You're having specialized, and often dependant, pockets almost entirely cut-off from the rest of the galaxy. Billions of people immediately left in the dark. You're not just jumping back in time, you're removing the foundation of society. It'd be like if modern transportation and communication was suddenly taken down and would have to be repaired manually. The effects would be catastrophic.

No, it actually wouldn't be that bad.  We'd have no internet, no phones, don't know if our cars would be affected since they really aren't that high tech yet, but even assuming they were, I get by w/out my car a lot.  Mainly because it's old, and prone to breaking down.  The tech is damaged, but not beyond repair, and the knowledge to fix it isn't affected at all.  There would be some most definite WTF just happened time, but after that, repairs would progress.

There would be no FTL travel, so individual solar systems would be on their own until they get it repaired.  However, that's all it's going to take, repairing it.  They would not have to start from scratch.  At least depending on your EMS.  A low EMS Destroy might well be what you are predicting, or close.  But a high EMS Destroy wouldn't be nearly as bad as you're painting it.


It would. The galactic economy was already on the verge of collapse. How do you think it'll fare with no trade? And, unlike gasoline engines, we don't have a full understanding of relay technology. There are several individual solar systems who simply don't have the technolgical capacity to repair it on their own. And the homeworlds were ravaged during the war, with daily casualties in the millions. It'd be utter chaos, with no time to focus on reactivating the network. To top it all off, the majority of high command is stranded in the Sol system. It'd take who knows how long simply to repair the link to Arcturus, then travel to the next set of relays to repair them, and so on and so forth.

#45
Wayning_Star

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Falaxe wrote...

Who wants to live in a world wich is only Order/Balance? There has to be chaos of those, or system wont work...


I dunno, why have computers to gain order of a brand of chaos?

why have government and other pesky sources of control?

#46
Wayning_Star

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Filament wrote...

Synthesis seems like the kind of balance that moves all the weight to the center and bypasses the actual scale.



technological existence.....................................................................................................organic existence


where to put that fulcrum? Image IPB

(anyone have a super computer handy?!? ;)

#47
robertthebard

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Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

It would. The galactic economy was already on the verge of collapse. How do you think it'll fare with no trade? And, unlike gasoline engines, we don't have a full understanding of relay technology. There are several individual solar systems who simply don't have the technolgical capacity to repair it on their own. And the homeworlds were ravaged during the war, with daily casualties in the millions. It'd be utter chaos, with no time to focus on reactivating the network. To top it all off, the majority of high command is stranded in the Sol system. It'd take who knows how long simply to repair the link to Arcturus, then travel to the next set of relays to repair them, and so on and so forth.

Again, you are assuming that the only way repairs can be made is from Sol system out.  This is where the bulk of the fleets throughout the galaxy is, but it's not where the entire galaxy is.  The Crucible is likely unmanned, so everyone that had a hand in building it, mostly non-combatants, are elsewhere.  These are among the brightest minds in the galaxy.  So the tech is down, but the people that know anything about it aren't.  We don't know where they built the Crucible, but it's obvious there were no Reapers there, or it would have never been finished.

#48
Bill Casey

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Steelcan wrote...

Your bias is plainly evident ForThessia.  This isn't a Synthesis hate thread 

Every thread is a Synthesis hate thread...

Synthesis = Discipline

HarmonyVersusDiscipline

Discipline believes that Harmony is too focused on preserving and accepting, and is in fact defeatist by not trying to improve things, this is why Discipline tends to be active. On the flip side, Discipline can end up tampering with things best left unmolested, can give its practitioners a God complex, and can lose sight of the now in favor of tomorrow.


Modifié par Bill Casey, 31 mars 2013 - 06:05 .


#49
Subject M

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CosmicGnosis wrote...

Shortly after finishing ME3, I concluded that the endings could basically interpreted like this:

Destroy = Chaos
Control = Order
Synthesis = Balance

In fact, the Reaper on Rannoch declares that they represent order and organics represent chaos. It can't be anymore clear than that. I suppose, then, that Synthesis can be interpreted as some kind of balance between order and chaos, synthetic and organic.

This was my interpretation before I got on the Internet and experienced people's visceral hatred of Synthesis. At that point, arguing that Synthesis represented any kind of balance seemed pointless.


Its correct if you ask me, but not the whole picture. The different endings also represent different types of sacrifices and affirm different values. Synthesis is not so much about balance as the balance is a way to break the cycle and overcome the conditions that generates the disastrous conflict.

Destroy: External synthetic sacrifice.
Control: Internal organic sacrifice (organic self-sacriice)
Synthesis: Total self seacrifice (In legions words: Direct personality dissemination required) in order to upgrade everyone at once.

Of course there are also differences in terms of EMS and so on.

Modifié par Subject M, 31 mars 2013 - 06:08 .


#50
Wayning_Star

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ruggly wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

ruggly wrote...

I'd be up for the balance aspect if I didn't have to force it on everyone.



yeah, that does seem to upend balance when forcing. But, to me, the story forces everything, even the finality.

In a way, the justification is the matter of altering to the point of creation, that would actually be similar to nature it's self, that doesn't really 'give' many choices, or is exempt from responsibility for the presentation.

If synthesis tailoring nature at it's core/basis,etc.. then it could be considered natural to those unaware of the changes. Given the chaotic nature of deep space and it's contents, beings of all kinds are affected, regardless of choice, knowledge dependent. Probably just a matter of benefits vs. contemporary thoughts/knowledge.

We did go to Mars and uproot the technology, even though we had NO knowledge of it's origin. Didn't care..

Would anyone do that if they 'knew' of the reaperships and catalyst program, or even Leviathan for that matter?


The story does do that indeed. 

But how could you not notice the changes, such as the Turian scene in the EC epilogue.  Green beam washes over them and they immediately notice the changes.  Some people may jump for joy over the changes, but we never hear about those would feel absolutely violated over it, either.  The ME3 Geth wouldn't care, since they're all about becoming more "human," or whatever the proper term would be.

Anyways, what I'm trying to get at is that with all the possible downsides that I see, it may do more to upset the balance at first than to help it.  Nor can you force it, in my opinion.


The really big problem with 'imagining' the results of synthesis, is not experiencing it ourselves. Forcing it is exactly what we're doing, in any event. It's seems to boil down to just how fast we're willing to accept it's invocation. Would we rather such a thing slip up on organic/synthetic life forms, or just DO IT? Get it over with, etc.

Being is the theory of it relates to the basis of nature, that is our beginnings as organics, synthetic beginnings are rather short sighted. Synthetics 'become' in less than a few thousand years, but organic life forms took millions of years to evolve sentience, maybe longer? That balance thing again. Our existence and it's necessity of invention might be the mitigation of 'force' as we tailor the given reality around us during existence, it's a hang up with sentient life forms. Always fiddling with stuff...just don't know when to stop tool making to thwart natures apparen urge to 'end us'...lol