556 réponses à ce sujet

[Argolas]

conjmk wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Just what makes so many people hate the Asari so much?

Allow me to explain:

-They think they're the most goddamn good looking species in the galaxy and that they can seduce anyone they want, when really nobody finds calamari heads attractive. 

-They hold themselves above every other race because of their "technological advances" when the only reason they've made so many breakthroughs was because of the protheans giving it to them.

-They knew the reapers existed and were comming the whole time and didn't do sh*t.

-They're pu**ys when it comes to war, all they're really good for is being "exotic dancers".

-They make f@*king clones of themselves to reproduce and have no genetic diveristy what-so-ever. 

Overall they're basically just c*&ts.

So it is stereotypes, the fault of few individuals and intolerance. Got it.

[conjmk]

^^^

LOL, no.

Go suck on their tentacle heads.

[ShaggyWolf]

Honestly I would prefer the Asari survive. They are one of the most successful and advanced species in the galaxy, and their politics are conductive to galactic cooperation, even if they are manipulative and domineering in the scene of galactic politics.

As a people, I have nothing against the Asari. I despise their government and the way they've placed themselves above everyone else in the galaxy, while hypocritcally breaking their own laws and setting humanity (my species, excuse me for feeling a degree of loyalty to them) up to fail.

Look at what happened with the Batarians. They were a stain on Citadel space for a long time, and as soon as someone more palatable (humans in this case) showed up, they were used to effectively kick the Batarians out of Citadel space. Unfortunately for the Asari, the humans were just a little too capable and a little too powerful, and became a political threat and inconvenience. Now what do you think will happen if another new race discovers the relay network and joins the galactic community? Do you think the Asari wouldn't use them to do to humanity what they did to the batarians? I know if I was a human in that universe, I wouldn't bet on the Asari treating me favorably, based on historical evidence. Humans have been set up to have the smallest military fleet, and have been encouraged to colonize unstable regions of space. They would be a relatively easy target for a newcomer to kick out.

Fortunately, the Reaper conflict gives humanity a great opportunity. Humanity effectively leads the galactic community forward. The Asari, despite their role as galactic leaders and peacemakers, retreated to defend only themselves in a time of galactic crisis, whereas humanity steps up to help the Turians and Krogan, the geth and Quarians, and then proceeds to lead them forward to defeat the Reapers once and for all. Humanity demonstrated the kind of behavior and leadership that everyone else would've expected of the Asari government, and it's likely that the rest of the galaxy will look to humanity for leadership following ME3.

Therefore, I want the Asari to survive so that their leaders can see what they did wrong, and understand that they have lost at their own game. And because the extinction of an entire species is horrible and 99.9% of Asari have done nothing to deserve that.

[Bill Casey]

I absolutely hate the use of the term "sacrifice" for such war crimes...
It's like calling lay-offs "downsizing", genocide "ethnic cleansing" or torture "enhanced interrogation"...
It's doublespeak...

It's a deliberate attempt to craft the language around softening the act itself...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 05 avril 2013 - 06:49 .

[Xilizhra]

Humanity demonstrated the kind of behavior and leadership that everyone else would've expected of the Asari government, and it's likely that the rest of the galaxy will look to humanity for leadership following ME3.

I think not. I will ensure that no one will ever know about the beacon thing, and I will reconstruct the galaxy in a way that ensures that no one can seize power like that.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Humanity demonstrated the kind of behavior and leadership that everyone else would've expected of the Asari government, and it's likely that the rest of the galaxy will look to humanity for leadership following ME3.

I think not. I will ensure that no one will ever know about the beacon thing, and I will reconstruct the galaxy in a way that ensures that no one can seize power like that.

. And I will scream "the Asari are imperialist hypocrites" from every tower

Modifié par Steelcan, 05 avril 2013 - 07:26 .

[ShaggyWolf]

Xilizhra wrote...

Humanity demonstrated the kind of behavior and leadership that everyone else would've expected of the Asari government, and it's likely that the rest of the galaxy will look to humanity for leadership following ME3.

I think not. I will ensure that no one will ever know about the beacon thing, and I will reconstruct the galaxy in a way that ensures that no one can seize power like that.

Who cares about the beacon? The Asari ran and hid until practically everyone else in the galaxy (minus quarians/geth) made their stand. Even then their contribution was more of a token gesture while they struggled to defend Thessia on their own. Humans and Turians left their homes to join forces and defeat the Reapers once and for all. If the Asari wanted to live up to the image they created for themselves prior to the invasion, they should've done the same.

My point is, the Reaper war showed who was worthy of leading the galaxy, and even if it wasn't humanity, it's still definitely not the Asari.

[Argolas]

Steelcan wrote...

And I will scream "the Asari are imperialist hypocrites" from every tower

Imperialist? Please do explain.

[Barquiel]

Valadras21 wrote...

Look at what happened with the Batarians. They were a stain on Citadel space for a long time, and as soon as someone more palatable (humans in this case) showed up, they were used to effectively kick the Batarians out of Citadel space. Unfortunately for the Asari, the humans were just a little too capable and a little too powerful, and became a political threat and inconvenience. Now what do you think will happen if another new race discovers the relay network and joins the galactic community? Do you think the Asari wouldn't use them to do to humanity what they did to the batarians? I know if I was a human in that universe, I wouldn't bet on the Asari treating me favorably, based on historical evidence. Humans have been set up to have the smallest military fleet, and have been encouraged to colonize unstable regions of space. They would be a relatively easy target for a newcomer to kick out.

The batarians closed their Citadel embassy and severed diplomatic and economic relations because the council didn't declare the Skyllian Verge an area of "batarian interest", that's all. They didn't kick them out of council space. And the batarians were not exactly good neighbors...I think they can only blame themselves

"Sometime around 1785 CE, a batarian fleet bombarded the salarian colony world of Mannovai; in 1913, the Batarian Hegemony annexed the independent asari colony of Esan; and in 2115, Citadel forces skirmished with batarian forces on the planet Enael."

I mean...why would the council[i] strenghten such a race?

Valadras21 wrote...
Fortunately, the Reaper conflict gives humanity a great opportunity. Humanity effectively leads the galactic community forward. The Asari, despite their role as galactic leaders and peacemakers, retreated to defend only themselves in a time of galactic crisis, whereas humanity steps up to help the Turians and Krogan, the geth and Quarians, and then proceeds to lead them forward to defeat the Reapers once and for all. Humanity demonstrated the kind of behavior and leadership that everyone else would've expected of the Asari government, and it's likely that the rest of the galaxy will look to humanity for leadership following ME3.Therefore, I want the Asari to survive so that their leaders can see what they did wrong, and understand that they have lost at their own game. And because the extinction of an entire species is horrible and 99.9% of Asari have done nothing to deserve that.

Well, Earth was hit pretty badly. It had a large reaper presence with no orbital support, as well as the damage from the finale. Earth's infrastructure is completely trashed. Cerberus is also the main face of Reaper collaboration, and commited atrocities on a massive scale during the war...not to mention Udina's betrayal. And honestly, only Shepard (a spectre, whith a multi-species crew) helped the other races. The alliance did absolutely nothing to help its allies. I doubt anyone will look to humanity for leadership. The salarians are obviously in a good position (they can help the other races to recover if they're smart), and maybe the asari too (they know more about the relays than everyone else).

Modifié par Barquiel, 05 avril 2013 - 07:33 .

[Argolas]

Valadras21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Humanity demonstrated the kind of behavior and leadership that everyone else would've expected of the Asari government, and it's likely that the rest of the galaxy will look to humanity for leadership following ME3.

I think not. I will ensure that no one will ever know about the beacon thing, and I will reconstruct the galaxy in a way that ensures that no one can seize power like that.

Who cares about the beacon? The Asari ran and hid until practically everyone else in the galaxy (minus quarians/geth) made their stand. Even then their contribution was more of a token gesture while they struggled to defend Thessia on their own. Humans and Turians left their homes to join forces and defeat the Reapers once and for all. If the Asari wanted to live up to the image they created for themselves prior to the invasion, they should've done the same.

My point is, the Reaper war showed who was worthy of leading the galaxy, and even if it wasn't humanity, it's still definitely not the Asari.

Whoa there. The Asari threw in their support right after the Cerberus coup. If anyone dodged aiding the war effort, it's the Salarians. Did you notice how you get any Salarian war assets at all? It's all personal favors. Favors for saving the councillor or not curing the genophage. If you do neither, the Salarians are practically absent despite their small but incredibly effective fleet and the fact that their home world saw hardly any war.
Meanwhile, the humans failed immediatly. The Reapers cut through their defenses and the human government was gone already after day 1. Hackett only managed to retreat, sacrificing an entire fleet and hiding with the rest.

If any race has proven itself in the Reaper war at all, it's the Turians.

[ShaggyWolf]

^Valid points, Barquiel.

My basic points still stand: Humanity's position in the galaxy prior to and during ME1 is tenuous, and I wouldn't trust any of the council races to respect human interests in the hypothetical situation I outlined in my post.

You're correct that the Alliance didn't exactly do anything for their allies directly. However, Shepard's mission was supported and funded by the Alliance. They are preipherally responsible for any good Shepard accomplishes in ME3. Additionally, the Alliance lead the construction of the Crucible, a project that basically everyone in the galaxy contributed to.

So yeah, the Alliance fleet might not've stormed Palaven in order to secure Turian support, but they sure did a lot better than the Asari.

And as much as I like Cerberus, you won't see me defend their actions in ME3.

[ShaggyWolf]

Argolas wrote...

Whoa there. The Asari threw in their support right after the Cerberus coup. If anyone dodged aiding the war effort, it's the Salarians. Did you notice how you get any Salarian war assets at all? It's all personal favors. Favors for saving the councillor or not curing the genophage. If you do neither, the Salarians are practically absent despite their small but incredibly effective fleet and the fact that their home world saw hardly any war.
Meanwhile, the humans failed immediatly. The Reapers cut through their defenses and the human government was gone already after day 1. Hackett only managed to retreat, sacrificing an entire fleet and hiding with the rest.

If any race has proven itself in the Reaper war at all, it's the Turians.

And the Citadel Coup happened AFTER Shepard secured an alliance with the Turians and in most cases the Krogan. You can't not support that kind of fighting force. The point I'm trying to make is that the Asari always portrayed themselves as these great leaders who support lesser races in times of criss (Avina's words, not mine). That's not valid when you only step up to fight after all the heavy hitters take up the front line on their own initiative.

And yeah, Humans lost earth immediately after the Reaper invasion. Which makes sense since the bulk of the Reaper fleet was there. But look who bounced back and led the war effort to defeat the Reapers: Humans. The Turians basically lost Palaven but they still stepped up to fight (So I agree with you that their performance was exemplary). But the Asari, who's homeworld hadn't even been touched yet, ran away and left everyone else to their own devices. A strategy that was doomed to fail because it already didn't work for Humans, Turians, and even the Krogan. Everyone recognized that they needed to unite and work together to defeat the Reapers, except the Salarians. The Asari did join, eventually, but not as the enlightened and powerful leaders they made themselves out to be. My point isn't that they didn't help, but that their facade crumbled, and they demonstrated that they didn't deserve to sit atop the throne of galactic power that they built for themselves prior to the war.

[Barquiel]

Valadras21 wrote...

^Valid points, Barquiel.

My basic points still stand: Humanity's position in the galaxy prior to and during ME1 is tenuous, and I wouldn't trust any of the council races to respect human interests in the hypothetical situation I outlined in my post.

You're correct that the Alliance didn't exactly do anything for their allies directly. However, Shepard's mission was supported and funded by the Alliance. They are preipherally responsible for any good Shepard accomplishes in ME3. Additionally, the Alliance lead the construction of the Crucible, a project that basically everyone in the galaxy contributed to.

So yeah, the Alliance fleet might not've stormed Palaven in order to secure Turian support, but they sure did a lot better than the Asari.

And as much as I like Cerberus, you won't see me defend their actions in ME3.

We know the asari assisted the alliance before Tevos officially announced that their fleets will help to retake Earth though. Aeian T'Goni (the asari huntress being treated for PTSD at Huerta Memorial Hospital) helped with a group of other asari commandos human colonists evacuating from the Reaper invasion for example. As far as I know, the asari were the only ones helping the Alliance colonies evacuate at that time.

And the Reapers attack the first asari world (Illium) right when they are taking Earth and attacking Palaven. They should have joined the war summit, I agree. But they joined after the Cerberus coup, so virtually the same time as anyone else does and without demanding anything in return.

Modifié par Barquiel, 05 avril 2013 - 08:32 .

[Argolas]

Valadras21 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Whoa there. The Asari threw in their support right after the Cerberus coup. If anyone dodged aiding the war effort, it's the Salarians. Did you notice how you get any Salarian war assets at all? It's all personal favors. Favors for saving the councillor or not curing the genophage. If you do neither, the Salarians are practically absent despite their small but incredibly effective fleet and the fact that their home world saw hardly any war.
Meanwhile, the humans failed immediatly. The Reapers cut through their defenses and the human government was gone already after day 1. Hackett only managed to retreat, sacrificing an entire fleet and hiding with the rest.

If any race has proven itself in the Reaper war at all, it's the Turians.

And the Citadel Coup happened AFTER Shepard secured an alliance with the Turians and in most cases the Krogan. You can't not support that kind of fighting force. The point I'm trying to make is that the Asari always portrayed themselves as these great leaders who support lesser races in times of criss (Avina's words, not mine). That's not valid when you only step up to fight after all the heavy hitters take up the front line on their own initiative.

And yeah, Humans lost earth immediately after the Reaper invasion. Which makes sense since the bulk of the Reaper fleet was there. But look who bounced back and led the war effort to defeat the Reapers: Humans. The Turians basically lost Palaven but they still stepped up to fight (So I agree with you that their performance was exemplary). But the Asari, who's homeworld hadn't even been touched yet, ran away and left everyone else to their own devices. A strategy that was doomed to fail because it already didn't work for Humans, Turians, and even the Krogan. Everyone recognized that they needed to unite and work together to defeat the Reapers, except the Salarians. The Asari did join, eventually, but not as the enlightened and powerful leaders they made themselves out to be. My point isn't that they didn't help, but that their facade crumbled, and they demonstrated that they didn't deserve to sit atop the throne of galactic power that they built for themselves prior to the war.

Are the Asari on the "throne" prior to the war? The Turians and humans have a stronger military, the Salarians have at least about equal scientific level, and the Volus already challanged Asari economy. The Asari's greatest strength was always diplomacy and they definately made some great achievements there.

It's clear that a race that is focused on diplomacy and has a military that is not designed for open combat does badly in total war. I hope this experience... "grounded" those Asari who are really arrogant towards the rest of the galaxy because those do exist. But I also hope that they can keep their position as diplomats and peacekeepers. Tensions could rise any time with the common foe gone. Krogan could turn against turians and salarians, even the bad blood between turians and humans could return. I want the Asari to be involved in those politics.

[Steelcan]

Argolas wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

And I will scream "the Asari are imperialist hypocrites" from every tower

Imperialist? Please do explain.

. The Asari are the largest economic power, the oldest Citadel race, and a "formidable" military power as well.  While this doesn't spell imperialism it forms the basis.  Now throw in their own Machiavellian use of hidden Prothean tech, and subsequent laws passed to prevent anyone else from doing so.  It seems to paint a picture of a race who has made it to the top of the galaxy and is willing to do what is necessary to keep it that way.  They bend the laws also for basic trade.  In order to make themselves competitive they legalized slavery, drug dealing, etc...on Illium.

They dominate the other races economically, technologically, diplomatically, and politically.  And then make it harder for other races to do the same.  Because of  that, I don't think 'imperialist' is too far off the mark.

[Artifex_Imperius]

Wow really for got about tiptree! Asari's defeding-helping evacuate a human colony. not their fight? Why the hate? Tiptree shows the asari can do some good!

evacuating those civilians goes to show asari where well within the fight. i wonder how many other worlds did the asari evacuate?

In evacuating tiptree, what did the daughters of Thessia die for?

[Silentblaze]

Sacrifice (conditional)

Only condition for me to sacrifice the Asari would be if I could save a few or hundred few maidens to repopulate.  The Asari genepool isn't limited to their own species, so even having just one Asari Eve left alive after the war their race could recover in time.  I'd include the guarantee that none of them (or her) are Ardat Yakshi or had Ardat Yakshi in ther family history.

[ThinkSharp]

Silentblaze wrote...

Sacrifice (conditional)

Only condition for me to sacrifice the Asari would be if I could save a few or hundred few maidens to repopulate.  The Asari genepool isn't limited to their own species, so even having just one Asari Eve left alive after the war their race could recover in time.  I'd include the guarantee that none of them (or her) are Ardat Yakshi or had Ardat Yakshi in ther family history.

BadLuckShep saves 1 Asari and she's Ardat Yakshi, eats everyone on ship.

[Xilizhra]

And yeah, Humans lost earth immediately after the Reaper invasion. Which makes sense since the bulk of the Reaper fleet was there. But look who bounced back and led the war effort to defeat the Reapers: Humans. The Turians basically lost Palaven but they still stepped up to fight (So I agree with you that their performance was exemplary). But the Asari, who's homeworld hadn't even been touched yet, ran away and left everyone else to their own devices. A strategy that was doomed to fail because it already didn't work for Humans, Turians, and even the Krogan. Everyone recognized that they needed to unite and work together to defeat the Reapers, except the Salarians. The Asari did join, eventually, but not as the enlightened and powerful leaders they made themselves out to be. My point isn't that they didn't help, but that their facade crumbled, and they demonstrated that they didn't deserve to sit atop the throne of galactic power that they built for themselves prior to the war.

How lucky for you, in that the throne is now mine. But I wonder what you would have me do with it.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

And yeah, Humans lost earth immediately after the Reaper invasion. Which makes sense since the bulk of the Reaper fleet was there. But look who bounced back and led the war effort to defeat the Reapers: Humans. The Turians basically lost Palaven but they still stepped up to fight (So I agree with you that their performance was exemplary). But the Asari, who's homeworld hadn't even been touched yet, ran away and left everyone else to their own devices. A strategy that was doomed to fail because it already didn't work for Humans, Turians, and even the Krogan. Everyone recognized that they needed to unite and work together to defeat the Reapers, except the Salarians. The Asari did join, eventually, but not as the enlightened and powerful leaders they made themselves out to be. My point isn't that they didn't help, but that their facade crumbled, and they demonstrated that they didn't deserve to sit atop the throne of galactic power that they built for themselves prior to the war.

How lucky for you, in that the throne is now mine. But I wonder what you would have me do with it.

That's not creepy at all.

...I should go.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 avril 2013 - 04:41 .

[Xilizhra]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And yeah, Humans lost earth immediately after the Reaper invasion. Which makes sense since the bulk of the Reaper fleet was there. But look who bounced back and led the war effort to defeat the Reapers: Humans. The Turians basically lost Palaven but they still stepped up to fight (So I agree with you that their performance was exemplary). But the Asari, who's homeworld hadn't even been touched yet, ran away and left everyone else to their own devices. A strategy that was doomed to fail because it already didn't work for Humans, Turians, and even the Krogan. Everyone recognized that they needed to unite and work together to defeat the Reapers, except the Salarians. The Asari did join, eventually, but not as the enlightened and powerful leaders they made themselves out to be. My point isn't that they didn't help, but that their facade crumbled, and they demonstrated that they didn't deserve to sit atop the throne of galactic power that they built for themselves prior to the war.

How lucky for you, in that the throne is now mine. But I wonder what you would have me do with it.

That's not creepy at all.

...I should go.

Well, he's correct, in that the asari can no longer say that they control the galaxy. However, neither can humans.

[Artifex_Imperius]

BNN999 wrote...

The asari are far from perfect, behind that veneer they've constructed they're nothing more than self-serving cowards. Despite their place as the leading power in the galaxy they spend most of the war hanging back watching the other races get bloodied while doing nothing to help, and it comes back to bite them on Thessia. Even the volus have more fight in them than that.

What about tiptree? asari saving a human colony early in the game? asari died saving humans? or did you just look blindly past that?

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And yeah, Humans lost earth immediately after the Reaper invasion. Which makes sense since the bulk of the Reaper fleet was there. But look who bounced back and led the war effort to defeat the Reapers: Humans. The Turians basically lost Palaven but they still stepped up to fight (So I agree with you that their performance was exemplary). But the Asari, who's homeworld hadn't even been touched yet, ran away and left everyone else to their own devices. A strategy that was doomed to fail because it already didn't work for Humans, Turians, and even the Krogan. Everyone recognized that they needed to unite and work together to defeat the Reapers, except the Salarians. The Asari did join, eventually, but not as the enlightened and powerful leaders they made themselves out to be. My point isn't that they didn't help, but that their facade crumbled, and they demonstrated that they didn't deserve to sit atop the throne of galactic power that they built for themselves prior to the war.

How lucky for you, in that the throne is now mine. But I wonder what you would have me do with it.

That's not creepy at all.

...I should go.

Well, he's correct, in that the asari can no longer say that they control the galaxy. However, neither can humans.

Neither can the Leviathans. No one entity should, in my opinion. I think it's bad enough that there's a galactic government which even thinks it has the right to appoint agents with unlimited power.

That the Council thinks it has the right to do that, tells us they claim the right to do whatever they want to anyone in their jurisdiction - as we have seen time and time again.

[Xilizhra]

Neither can the Leviathans. No one entity should, in my opinion. I think it's bad enough that there's a galactic government which even thinks it has the right to appoint agents with unlimited power.

That the Council thinks it has the right to do that, tells us they claim the right to do whatever they want to anyone in their jurisdiction - as we have seen time and time again.

Yes, and it's rather telling that the Alliance's only thought for this is "how do we get in on this?" Though the galaxy might have been in far worse trouble several times, not least in the buildup to the Reaper war, without Spectres.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

Neither can the Leviathans. No one entity should, in my opinion. I think it's bad enough that there's a galactic government which even thinks it has the right to appoint agents with unlimited power.

That the Council thinks it has the right to do that, tells us they claim the right to do whatever they want to anyone in their jurisdiction - as we have seen time and time again.

Yes, and it's rather telling that the Alliance's only thought for this is "how do we get in on this?" Though the galaxy might have been in far worse trouble several times, not least in the buildup to the Reaper war, without Spectres.

I wish we could be more vocally critical of the Alliance. We could, in the first two titles. Then we got AutoShep, and all that came with him.