556 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir DeLoria]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Necanor wrote...

HellbirdIV wrote...

That's why I did sacrifice the quarians in my original playthrough - fewest amount of lives lost.

Fewest amount of lives lost? Right 17 million civilians, a whole race, is nothing<_<

I'm sure choosing the evil genocidal robots over the space Bedouins is a moral choice.

The Geth become fully sapient independent souls with the Reaper code upgrade. Even if we assume that only applies to individual platforms and not the individual programs, they still outnumber the quarians by an order of magnitude.

The Geth aren't sapient beings with a soul, they're just AIs, machines, nothing more.

Also, it's extremely ignorant to judge an entire race by the decisions of three Admirals. Quoting Jonah's dad: "the Quarians didn't want this war".

Would you pick the Geth over the Asari?

[HellbirdIV]

Necanor wrote...

The Geth aren't sapient beings with a soul, they're just AIs, machines, nothing more.

Sapience means to be self-aware and conscious. To be able to consider one's own existence.

The moment the geth had the capacity to ask if they had souls, the answer was yes.

Necanor wrote...

Also, it's extremely ignorant to judge an entire race by the decisions of three Admirals. Quoting Jonah's dad: "the Quarians didn't want this war".

The admirals cannot order ship captains into battle against their will. That's stated as early as Mass Effect 1: Captains have the ultimate authority over everything that goes on onboard their own ships, and where their own ships go.

ME1 Codex even states that some quarian ships leave the Flotilla because of this. Thus, every ship and crew that is at Rannoch is there by choice. The admirals didn't personally put those illegal Mass Accelerators on their Liveships, did they now?

"We were just following orders" didn't hold up in the Nuremberg Trials, so it doesn't hold up here.

Necanor wrote...

Would you pick the Geth over the Asari?

Unlikely.

Asari are better for the overall war effort. Asari also have a population so much larger than the quarians - It's not even a thousandfold greater, like seventeen billion, but possibly more like twenty or thirty billion.

It is not entirely impossible though, and would depend heavily on the situation.

[Sir DeLoria]

There is two political units in the Quarian flotilla: the Admirals and the Enclave. While the Enclave can decide laws, the Admirality board makes military and political decisions. The Quarian captains might have had the chance to leave, but that would not only be disloyal but a very risky move, since single ships or smaller groups make easy prey for reapers, pirates or mercs. Comparing the Flotilla's fight with the Geth, to the actions of Germany in WW2 or the Nürnberg trials is just totally wrong, false and out of context.

The Geth platforms might be self-aware, but they're still just machines lacking morals, emotions, individuality, art, culture or any other type of psychological trait. They are incomparable to a sophisticated organic race like the Quarians, Turians or Asari. Just because we program a machine to think, doesn't mean it deserves to be treated like a living being. Biologically they aren't even considered alive.

You're also completely ignoring the atrocious crimes committed by the Geth throughout their short and bloody history. They might have been created for labour, but that doesn't justify the massacring of millions upon millions of civilians and other non-combatants by the Geth. They killed anyone, no matter what age, race, gender or affiliation. The Geth are monsters, their crimes far outdo the crimes of history's worst dictators.

You talk about 'military value' but as a matter of fact, the Quarian forces are potentially superior to the Geths'.

Modifié par Necanor, 09 juillet 2013 - 06:06 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well, I'm in the middle of the dreadnought. I told Gerrel to counterattack. I checked the numbers. I don't need the Geth. We're going to win this one, Tali. Don't worry. You'll have your home world before you know it. What do the geth have to offer the galaxy? Nothing. They may be good at lawn care and vehicle maintenance, but beyond that? Nothing. We'll save Koris, but I'm not going to bother with the consensus mission.

[HellbirdIV]

Necanor wrote...

You talk about 'military value' but as a matter of fact, the Quarian forces are potentially superior to the Geths'.

Untrue. The primary purpose of the Migrant Fleet as used in the Reaper conflict is as logistical support - and the quarians, selfish little turds that they are - keep half of their fleet in the Perseus Veil anyway, even if you do spare them or make peace.

The geth, on the other hand, commit their entire armed forces - which is every single platform. The only geth who would not be part of the war effort are those who remain in servers near Rannoch, most of whom were murdered when the quarians bombarded their Dyson Sphere. Geth forces do not need to sleep or eat either, whereas the quarians remain space locusts.

The geth are superior in every aspect, including the fact they aren't likely to betray their allies for short-term gains - looking at you, Han'Garrel.

[The Night Mammoth]

Necanor wrote...

The Geth platforms might be self-aware, but they're still just machines lacking morals, emotions, individuality, art, culture or any other type of psychological trait. They are incomparable to a sophisticated organic race like the Quarians, Turians or Asari.

It seems strange to me to try and pin 'organic' traits on beings when you don't recognise them equal to organics or even worthy of being considered living. Legion even mentions this. This is basically fear for something that isn't like you. 

Just because we program a machine to think, doesn't mean it deserves to be treated like a living being.

The geth weren't programmed to become self-aware and sentient. 

Biologically they aren't even considered alive.

Why is that important?

[ToaOrka]

Necanor wrote...
You're also completely ignoring the atrocious crimes committed by the Geth throughout their short and bloody history. They might have been created for labour, but that doesn't justify the massacring of millions upon millions of civilians and other non-combatants by the Geth. They killed anyone, no matter what age, race, gender or affiliation. The Geth are monsters, their crimes far outdo the crimes of history's worst dictators.

Did you even play the Geth Fighter Base mission? The Geth didn't seek
to kill civilians or reduce the Quarian's numbers; they were fighting for their
right to exist, as newly sentient creatures. You can't try to exterminate a group
of people and then expect them to lie down and take it, the Quarians got 
what they deserved when they attacked the Geth.

Also, the only time they are seen attacking civilians is, A, when they're under
the control of the Reapers, or B, when the Quarian fleet will not stop attacking
after Legion distributes the code upgrades. If you're fighting a war and a civilian
decides to pull a gun on you, you're going to shoot them, because when they
take up arms against you, they cease to be non-combatants.

They killed either because of being scared or fighting for their lives, just like any
organic would do — "The Geth only acted in self defense. Do they deserve death?"

[Sir DeLoria]

ToaOrka wrote...
Did you even play the Geth Fighter Base mission? The Geth didn't seek
to kill civilians or reduce the Quarian's numbers; they were fighting for their
right to exist, as newly sentient creatures. You can't try to exterminate a group
of people and then expect them to lie down and take it, the Quarians got 
what they deserved when they attacked the Geth.
Also, the only time they are seen attacking civilians is, A, when they're under
the control of the Reapers, or B, when the Quarian fleet will not stop attacking
after Legion distributes the code upgrades. If you're fighting a war and a civilian
decides to pull a gun on you, you're going to shoot them, because when they
take up arms against you, they cease to be non-combatants.
They killed either because of being scared or fighting for their lives, just like any
organic would do — "The Geth only acted in self defense. Do they deserve death?"

What the hell are you talking about? I don't mean the Rannoch Arc, I'm talking about the Morning War. The Geth didn't just exile their creators, they systematically slaughtered every organic in the Perseus Veil. They might have spared a few Quarian survivors, but that doesn't justify the mass murder of innocent civilians. They didn't even target Quarians in specific, but literally anything organic(there's dialogue in ME2 about Asari vistor being killed by the Geth when they rebelled).

[Sir DeLoria]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Necanor wrote...

You talk about 'military value' but as a matter of fact, the Quarian forces are potentially superior to the Geths'.

Untrue. The primary purpose of the Migrant Fleet as used in the Reaper conflict is as logistical support - and the quarians, selfish little turds that they are - keep half of their fleet in the Perseus Veil anyway, even if you do spare them or make peace.

The geth, on the other hand, commit their entire armed forces - which is every single platform. The only geth who would not be part of the war effort are those who remain in servers near Rannoch, most of whom were murdered when the quarians bombarded their Dyson Sphere. Geth forces do not need to sleep or eat either, whereas the quarians remain space locusts.
The geth are superior in every aspect, including the fact they aren't likely to betray their allies for short-term gains - looking at you, Han'Garrel.

You're bringing up nothing but a false hypothesis. The Geth forces were severly decimated by the Quarians. You're just assuming things here, the Quarian EMS is simply higher than the Geths'(the fleet alone is more than twice as strong).

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

the only race id sacrifice for the Asari are The Geth.Death to the Asari

[dublin omega 223]

I personally destroy the Geth in every play through when I can't get peace. I don't get why most choose Geth over Quarians after all the Quarians are people, while Geth are blinking lights and clockwork.

Plus if you choose Destroy I always do at the end of ME3 they die anyway.

Modifié par dublin omega 223, 09 juillet 2013 - 08:03 .

[Sir DeLoria]

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I personally destroy the Geth in every play through when I can't get peace. I don't get why most choose Geth over Quarians after all the Quarians are people, while Geth are blinking lights and clockwork.

Plus if you choose Destroy I always do at the end of ME3 they die anyway.

No one likes the Geth, but:

1. Many tried to make peace with Geth VI
2. For some insane reason, murdering Tali & Quarian race is marked 'Paragon'

Also, this is just a BSN poll. All the non-BSN players I know, chose the Quarians.

Modifié par Necanor, 09 juillet 2013 - 08:08 .

[dublin omega 223]

Necanor wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I personally destroy the Geth in every play through when I can't get peace. I don't get why most choose Geth over Quarians after all the Quarians are people, while Geth are blinking lights and clockwork.

Plus if you choose Destroy I always do at the end of ME3 they die anyway.

No one likes the Geth, but:

1. Many tried to make peace with Geth VI
2. For some insane reason, murdering Tali & Quarian race is marked 'Paragon'

Also, this is just a BSN poll. All the non-BSN players I know, chose the Quarians.

Should have been the opposite way around with killing the Geth being Paragon and killing Quarians being Renegade.

I know a few BSN playwers who choose Quarians over Geth.

[KaiserShep]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Necanor wrote...

You talk about 'military value' but as a matter of fact, the Quarian forces are potentially superior to the Geths'.

Untrue. The primary purpose of the Migrant Fleet as used in the Reaper conflict is as logistical support - and the quarians, selfish little turds that they are - keep half of their fleet in the Perseus Veil anyway, even if you do spare them or make peace.

Come on. You know that in their place, any other race would keep a percentage of their fleet in their homeworld too. If Earth was in Rannoch's position, it would only make sense to leave non-combatants there with a complement of troops and a portion of the fleet to defend them. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 09 juillet 2013 - 08:18 .

[MisterJB]

What do you mean "sacrifice"? The extinction of the asari is the end-goal.

[Barquiel]

Necanor wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I personally destroy the Geth in every play through when I can't get peace. I don't get why most choose Geth over Quarians after all the Quarians are people, while Geth are blinking lights and clockwork.

Plus if you choose Destroy I always do at the end of ME3 they die anyway.

No one likes the Geth, but:

1. Many tried to make peace with Geth VI
2. For some insane reason, murdering Tali & Quarian race is marked 'Paragon'

Also, this is just a BSN poll. All the non-BSN players I know, chose the Quarians.

We know exactly how many players saved the geth/quarians, it's one of the statistics Bioware released a few months ago.

[Sir DeLoria]

dublin omega 223 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...
I personally destroy the Geth in every play through when I can't get peace. I don't get why most choose Geth over Quarians after all the Quarians are people, while Geth are blinking lights and clockwork.
Plus if you choose Destroy I always do at the end of ME3 they die anyway.

No one likes the Geth, but:

1. Many tried to make peace with Geth VI
2. For some insane reason, murdering Tali & Quarian race is marked 'Paragon'

Also, this is just a BSN poll. All the non-BSN players I know, chose the Quarians.

Should have been the opposite way around with killing the Geth being Paragon and killing Quarians being Renegade.
I know a few BSN playwers who choose Quarians over Geth.

Exactly. Most BSNers chose peace I think, even some of the Quarian/Tali haters.

[Sir DeLoria]

Barquiel wrote...

Necanor wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...
I personally destroy the Geth in every play through when I can't get peace. I don't get why most choose Geth over Quarians after all the Quarians are people, while Geth are blinking lights and clockwork.
Plus if you choose Destroy I always do at the end of ME3 they die anyway.

No one likes the Geth, but:
1. Many tried to make peace with Geth VI
2. For some insane reason, murdering Tali & Quarian race is marked 'Paragon'
Also, this is just a BSN poll. All the non-BSN players I know, chose the Quarians.

We know exactly how many players saved the geth/quarians, it's one of the statistics Bioware released a few months ago.

Oh man, those statistics hurt. Not just the Geth/Quarian scenario, but over 60% not letting Wrex live, Tali's survival rate being 39%, Kaidan's being 17% and worst of all Liara as the most popular squadmate:pinched:

[Steelcan]

All that infographic proves is the prevalence of paragons in ME. Not much else.

[dublin omega 223]

Barquiel wrote...

Necanor wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I personally destroy the Geth in every play through when I can't get peace. I don't get why most choose Geth over Quarians after all the Quarians are people, while Geth are blinking lights and clockwork.

Plus if you choose Destroy I always do at the end of ME3 they die anyway.

No one likes the Geth, but:

1. Many tried to make peace with Geth VI
2. For some insane reason, murdering Tali & Quarian race is marked 'Paragon'

Also, this is just a BSN poll. All the non-BSN players I know, chose the Quarians.

We know exactly how many players saved the geth/quarians, it's one of the statistics Bioware released a few months ago.

That's not 100% accurate what about those who play offline, how do they get their stats, like my nephes who choose Quarians over peace cause of the Geth wiping out Quarian women and children during the mourning war even if the Geth fought back in self defence.

They also should have released stats on the whole trilogy not just ME3 so we could see who out of all squadmates was the most popular 10 euro on it being either Garrus or Tali.

[Sir DeLoria]

Steelcan wrote...

All that infographic proves is the prevalence of paragons in ME. Not much else.

Good point.

[dublin omega 223]

Necanor wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...
I personally destroy the Geth in every play through when I can't get peace. I don't get why most choose Geth over Quarians after all the Quarians are people, while Geth are blinking lights and clockwork.
Plus if you choose Destroy I always do at the end of ME3 they die anyway.

No one likes the Geth, but:

1. Many tried to make peace with Geth VI
2. For some insane reason, murdering Tali & Quarian race is marked 'Paragon'

Also, this is just a BSN poll. All the non-BSN players I know, chose the Quarians.

Should have been the opposite way around with killing the Geth being Paragon and killing Quarians being Renegade.
I know a few BSN playwers who choose Quarians over Geth.

Exactly. Most BSNers chose peace I think, even some of the Quarian/Tali haters.

i dont get why anyone could hate the Geth or Tali I didn't even hate Batarianslike most ME fans I've run into, they should have really added a Batarian squadmate in the trilogy. That would have been awesome.

[Sir DeLoria]

Btw, Tali is ranked 4th best female companion in video game history by UGO. Garrus is number 1 on IGN's list, with Tali being 2nd.

[KaiserShep]

Necanor wrote...
Oh man, those statistics hurt. Not just the Geth/Quarian scenario, but over 60% not letting Wrex live, Tali's survival rate being 39%, Kaidan's being 17% and worst of all Liara as the most popular squadmate:pinched:

Awesome, ain't it? 

Something tells me a lot of players don't bother going to Tuntau to get Wrex's family armor, or build up the points necessary to convince Wrex to see things your way (or maybe most just have him killed because they don't like him). I admit, I've been tempted to kill Kaiden at the end of the Citadel coup, because it just seems really annoying how this character turns on you after everything he's seen, and of course, protecting that scuzzy Udina, who tried to screw Shepard and the Normandy crew over even after saving the Council's precious infiltration team. The femShep stat interests me. It's nice to support the underdog. 

Gotta love that Liara stat. Spam those singularities, girl! 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 09 juillet 2013 - 08:32 .

[HellbirdIV]

KaiserShep wrote...

You know that in their place, any other race would keep a percentage of their fleet in their homeworld too. If Earth was in Rannoch's position, it would only make sense to leave non-combatants there with a complement of troops and a portion of the fleet to defend them.

Except it doesn't, really.

See the idea is that civilians should be kept away from war zones so that they can survive to see the end of the war. It's how we do things in our civilized world.

The Reapers are not civilized.

The best use of your resources is to have noncombatants - children, mental deficients, sick and elderly, et al - hide somewhere while literally everyone else joins the war effort with all the resources at their disposal. It is truly a state of total war.

There's no point to protecting civilians when the civilians will be specifically targetted once there are no more military targets - as "The Miracle at Palaven" shows, the Reapers prioritize military targets over civilian ones, so ironically the best way to keep civilians safe is to use the military as bait. Having military units defend civilians only makes the Reapers come for them sooner, rather than later.

dublin omega 223 wrote...

That's
not 100% accurate what about those who play offline, how do they get
their stats

Except the people playing offline probably weren't all Tali-worshipping creeps, either, so the stats would remain unchanged.

I feel I should add, I don't hate Tali nor the Quarians particularily. I do hate Talimancers. Even the name is dumb. 

Talimancer. Tali-manipulator? 

Yeah that totally doesn't say anything suspect about your views of women, huh...

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 09 juillet 2013 - 08:37 .