556 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

DoodlyDangus wrote...

Besides, it's time for the Quarians to take their rightful place as the galaxy's sex machines.

[jacob taylor416]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

jacob taylor416 wrote...

 I'm not talking who's to blame because they could have stopped it, the 0.01% is no excuse for genocide. 

Oh god, not this "genocide" bullcrap again. ;

People on BSN really need to learn the f*cking definition of genocide. You're using a very loaded word much too easil and much too lightly.

Sacrificing a group of people or even an entire species =/= genocide. Well, it is genocide, but the blood is not on your hands. You're not commiting the genocide, the reapers are.

We're talking about sacrificing a species for the greater good in order to win the war, not about choosing to commit genocide on a species. Learn the difference.

We were, me and one or more people were talking about condemning a species due to its decisions and its impact on the galaxy, not choosing between the galaxy or said species; so we were using genocide in the correct context, even though we were off topic. "Genocide-the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, cultural group or species in this case.".

Modifié par jacob taylor416, 01 avril 2013 - 05:27 .

[IC-07]

I'd kill them all for fun. Never liked Asari anyway.

Modifié par IC-07, 01 avril 2013 - 05:27 .

[Barquiel]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Suron wrote...

Or they could have been written by someone that thinks women are the better of the two sexes and if women were somehow able to be the ENTIRE species (like say..the asari) then the world would be a better place.

And you're saying THAT isn't insulting, sexist and kinda ridiculous?

Not that I believe the person who made up the asari had any such crazy thoughts. What that other Aris Ravensta dude said is more likely to be true: the Asari are created to be these fantastic, sexy, exotic and "perfect" alien women in skimpy outfits willing and able to have intercourse with all other species, because hey, why not? Sex sells.

The problem is that they're written to be a sexual fantasy. That's the disgusting part.

Most asari in the series are quite modestly dressed (Samara and Benezia are the exceptions...and they're certainly not the only offenders in the games -> see Miranda or Jack). Apart from that, they're also one of the most fleshed out races in the ME universe. Take for example the Turians, Drell or Salarians. We really haven't seen them fleshed out as much as the Asari. Reducing them to "sexual fantasy" is just dumb.

They only seem deep because they're too close to humans. That's one of the things that annoys me particularly about the Asari and the Quarians (to a lesser extent).

Magical blue space babes are not deep and never will be deep. Hopefully, Bioware will make them more "alien" in future installments.

As for being modestly dressed, I call waffle. Name one Asari that wasn't dressed in a skin-tight outfit showing off their curves, seriously name one. It's rather blatant that they, like some characters you mentioned exist solely to titilate the fantasies of males, a.k.a. The Straight Male Gamer™, and that's the issue I take offense to. It's like BIoware has a low opinion of their fanbase, or was not confident enough that their creation would garner the attention it needed to succeed.

As for the Asari being fleshed out, we've honestly not have had a ton to differentiate them from humanity aside from being blue, lecherous, tentacled, dancers, commandos, and biotics.

Turians, despite seemingly rigid in their description we at least know about the details of the authority they follow instead of the Asari government which we've not really heard much about, except that the Asari have this pure fantasical "democracy".

No, they're more fleshed out (or " deeper") because Bioware put more effort into these races. Just compare the lenght of the codex entries. We're also visiting the Migrant Fleet and an asari colony which helped to flesh them out more.

Liara. She was the first female squadmate in ME2 to wear real armor. Most asari civilians wear long dresses (Tevos for example). Other Asari simply wear light armor (Morinth, Shiala). They also tried to create the Drell as a fanservice race for the ladies and no-one mentions Thane or Jacobs outfits being tight because they are male and thus their tight outfits are of course not offending.

We know a lot about the asari government. The Asari are a conglomoration of republics each representing their interests in a more standard democratical model. Much public policy is determined by their e-democracy and public debates. We also learn much about the cultural pureblood stigmata, the Ardath-Yakshi, their religion, Justicars,...

Modifié par Barquiel, 01 avril 2013 - 05:49 .

[ill_eyggro]

They're too damn cool and hot for that

[Red Panda]

Barquiel wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Suron wrote...

Or they could have been written by someone that thinks women are the better of the two sexes and if women were somehow able to be the ENTIRE species (like say..the asari) then the world would be a better place.

And you're saying THAT isn't insulting, sexist and kinda ridiculous?

Not that I believe the person who made up the asari had any such crazy thoughts. What that other Aris Ravensta dude said is more likely to be true: the Asari are created to be these fantastic, sexy, exotic and "perfect" alien women in skimpy outfits willing and able to have intercourse with all other species, because hey, why not? Sex sells.

The problem is that they're written to be a sexual fantasy. That's the disgusting part.

Most asari in the series are quite modestly dressed (Samara and Benezia are the exceptions...and they're certainly not the only offenders in the games -> see Miranda or Jack). Apart from that, they're also one of the most fleshed out races in the ME universe. Take for example the Turians, Drell or Salarians. We really haven't seen them fleshed out as much as the Asari. Reducing them to "sexual fantasy" is just dumb.

They only seem deep because they're too close to humans. That's one of the things that annoys me particularly about the Asari and the Quarians (to a lesser extent).

Magical blue space babes are not deep and never will be deep. Hopefully, Bioware will make them more "alien" in future installments.

As for being modestly dressed, I call waffle. Name one Asari that wasn't dressed in a skin-tight outfit showing off their curves, seriously name one. It's rather blatant that they, like some characters you mentioned exist solely to titilate the fantasies of males, a.k.a. The Straight Male Gamer™, and that's the issue I take offense to. It's like BIoware has a low opinion of their fanbase, or was not confident enough that their creation would garner the attention it needed to succeed.

As for the Asari being fleshed out, we've honestly not have had a ton to differentiate them from humanity aside from being blue, lecherous, tentacled, dancers, commandos, and biotics.

Turians, despite seemingly rigid in their description we at least know about the details of the authority they follow instead of the Asari government which we've not really heard much about, except that the Asari have this pure fantasical "democracy".

No, they're more fleshed out because Bioware put more effort into these races. Just compare the lenght of the codex entries. We're also visiting the Migrant Fleet and an asari colony which helps to flesh them out more.

Liara. She was the first female squadmate in ME2 to wear real armor. Most asari civilians wear long dresses (Tevos for example). They also tried to create the Drell as a fanservice race for the ladies and no-one mentions Thane or Jacobs outfits being tight because they are male and thus their tight outfits are of course not offending.

We know a lot about the asari gouverment. The Asari are a conglomoration of republics each representing their interests in a more standard democratical model. Much public policy is determined by their e-democracy and public debates. We also learn much about the cultural pureblood stigmata, the Ardath-Yakshi, their religion, Justicars,...

Not sure what you mean with the Migrant Fleet in regards to the Asari.

As for Jacob and Thane, they don't have blatant plot armor like Kai Leng, so despite their somewhat tighter outfits, (which appears commonplace for Drell because Hanar fashion designers are bad) neither are particularly forced on the player. Jacob is quite possibly one of the most disliked characters as well.

Why? Because most players play as ShepLoo.

Liara has had so much plot armor and fanservice compared to the rest of the characters in the game that it's breached any preceding levels of plot armor in Bioware games. She's had several increases in breast size across the games, and is in general forced on the player throughout the trilogy, except for Mass Effect 2 where you can get away with a 2 minute conversation that is largely able to be skipped through as fast as possible.

Players willingly have to let that blue-tentacled abomination play around with their head multiple times in the first game, and are subjected to 20 questions torture throughout the third. Despite being in armor, (thanks to all the complaints of those who thought latex suits were stupid fortunately) she was upgraded in terms of bodily features, as well as relevance to the plot.

Not only is she plot critical to ME1, she has a whole DLC for her in ME2, with massive chunks of the game for her in ME3. In fact, everywhere Shepard goes there always seems to be these "Asari", the sex symbol of Mass Effect, and it disgusts me, it really does.

Sure, they may have gotten expanded on a bit when Bioware was criticized for them being too blatantly sex icons, but they still are sex icons, just now portrayed as "perfect", when in reality they are little more than eye candy.

[Barquiel]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Not sure what you mean with the Migrant Fleet in regards to the Asari.

You said asari and quarians only seem deep because they're too close to humans. I think they are deep because (among other reasons) we visit Illium (asari) and the migrant fleet (quarians).

OperatingWookie wrote...
As for Jacob and Thane, they don't have blatant plot armor like Kai Leng, so despite their somewhat tighter outfits, (which appears commonplace for Drell because Hanar fashion designers are bad) neither are particularly forced on the player. Jacob is quite possibly one of the most disliked characters as well.

Why? Because most players play as ShepLoo.

What have Thane's or Jacob's outfits to do with Kai Leng's plot armor? And I think nobody hates Jacob because of his outfit...at least it's a complaint that I haven't heard yet.

OperatingWookie wrote...

Liara has had so much plot armor and fanservice compared to the rest of the characters in the game that it's breached any preceding levels of plot armor in Bioware games. She's had several increases in breast size across the games, and is in general forced on the player throughout the trilogy, except for Mass Effect 2 where you can get away with a 2 minute conversation that is largely able to be skipped through as fast as possible.

Players willingly have to let that blue-tentacled abomination play around with their head multiple times in the first game, and are subjected to 20 questions torture throughout the third. Despite being in armor, (thanks to all the complaints of those who thought latex suits were stupid fortunately) she was upgraded in terms of bodily features, as well as relevance to the plot.

Not only is she plot critical to ME1, she has a whole DLC for her in ME2, with massive chunks of the game for her in ME3. In fact, everywhere Shepard goes there always seems to be these "Asari", the sex symbol of Mass Effect, and it disgusts me, it really does.

Sure, they may have gotten expanded on a bit when Bioware was criticized for them being too blatantly sex icons, but they still are sex icons, just now portrayed as "perfect", when in reality they are little more than eye candy.

Again, what has Liara's "plot armor" (btw...plot armor doesn't mean "any character who can't be killed in a game where some characters can be killed") to do with the culture of the asari? And your argument doesn't even make much sense. You can wait until the last mission to recruit Liara in ME1 (barely any content). You can complete ME2 without ever setting foot on Illium. And many major asari NPCs don't have "plot armor" (Samara, Morinth, Shiala, Tevos,...). Let me guess, Garrus being a permanent squadmate in all three games (and he always joins at the beginning of the games) doesn't bother you? That's obviously good fanservice...

Naked asari (Liara) and naked standard human female (Ash, FemShep) are of the same overall height and have technically the same body model. Miranda has a unique model, I think. Why do you single out Liara ?

Modifié par Barquiel, 01 avril 2013 - 06:28 .

[AlexMBrennan]

As for being modestly dressed, I call waffle. Name one Asari that wasn't dressed in a skin-tight outfit showing off their curves, seriously name one

Name one human female NPC then - they have the same choice of skintight science outfit, consort stripper outfit and futuristic dress. They share the same body type and the same clothes.



(3rd picture is from ME3, thus the... improved... assets... but I couldn't quickly find a better picture of her ME1 appearance than the 2nd rather tiny picture).

Science:

https://encrypted-tb...usnTD9pqnNufsrT

Dress:

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 01 avril 2013 - 06:38 .

[Ridwan]

Hot blue alien chicks that still look good when you're old and wrinkly? Save of course.

[Bendigoe]

If It was race versus race similar to Rannoch It depends:

- Turians > Asari
- Salarians > Asari
- Krogan > Asari
- Drell > Asari
- Asari > Batarians
- Hanar > Asari
- Elcor > Asari
- Quarians > Asari
- Geth > Asari

I don't dislike the Asari, but every other race has a niche...the Asari don't really have much unique to them other than embracing eternity and Ardat Yakshi.
- Biotics aren't Asari exclusive, I think every race has the ability the naturally develop Biotics under the right conditions (Turian, Salarian, Human, Drell, Krogan all confirmed. Not sure about rest)
- Krogans have life spans that can equal the Asari.

Asari have literally nothing unique to them other than mind sex and mind melting diseases.
If we lost the Asari there would be absolutely nothing lost other than sex appeal.
You could argue that because of the way Asari reproduce they possess the ability for Krogan to have non-krogan children, but that's null If you cured the Genophage.

Edit: I didn't include Yahg because they weren't due for extermination.
Also didn't include Vorcha because I think there are too many racial stereotypes for me to fairly include them. They're the typical vermin race and I'd like to see some Vorcha character In the future which Isn't stereotypically a bad guy. Hoping for a potential Vorcha squadmate In the future so holding my vote.

Modifié par Bendigoe, 01 avril 2013 - 06:40 .

[Sirzechs_Krios]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Liara has had so much plot armor and fanservice compared to the rest of the characters in the game that it's breached any preceding levels of plot armor in Bioware games. She's had several increases in breast size across the games, and is in general forced on the player throughout the trilogy, except for Mass Effect 2 where you can get away with a 2 minute conversation that is largely able to be skipped through as fast as possible.

Players willingly have to let that blue-tentacled abomination play around with their head multiple times in the first game, and are subjected to 20 questions torture throughout the third. Despite being in armor, (thanks to all the complaints of those who thought latex suits were stupid fortunately) she was upgraded in terms of bodily features, as well as relevance to the plot.

Not only is she plot critical to ME1, she has a whole DLC for her in ME2, with massive chunks of the game for her in ME3. In fact, everywhere Shepard goes there always seems to be these "Asari", the sex symbol of Mass Effect, and it disgusts me, it really does.

Sure, they may have gotten expanded on a bit when Bioware was criticized for them being too blatantly sex icons, but they still are sex icons, just now portrayed as "perfect", when in reality they are little more than eye candy.

Again, what has Liara's "plot armor" (btw...plot armor doesn't mean "any character who can't be killed in a game where some characters can be killed") to do with the culture of the asari? And your argument doesn't even make much sense. You can wait until the last mission to recruit Liara in ME1 (barely any content). You can complete ME2 without ever setting foot on Illium. And many major asari NPCs don't have "plot armor" (Samara, Morinth, Shiala, Tevos,...). Let me guess, Garrus being a permanent squadmate in all three games (and he always joins at the beginning of the games) doesn't bother you? That's obviously good fanservice...

Naked asari (Liara) and naked standard human female (Ash, FemShep) are of the same overall height and have technically the same body model. Miranda has a unique model, I think. Why do you single out Liara ?

clearly he is bashing on liara just because she is an asari, talking about increase in breast size one should remember ashley's redesign and how incredible large they have gotten in Mass effec 3

Modifié par kazekaine1, 01 avril 2013 - 06:59 .

[Adoramei]

It would honestly depend on the situation. Sacrifice of life is not a decision that my Shepards would take lightly. (A trait we share.) For the most part, I tend to aim toward the "greater good", valuing societal/intellectual growth unless it gets to a point of the rights of the living.

Life is life though- especially sentient, abstract-thinking life.

If it was a decision between humans and Asari, they would be weighed evenly in my mind. However, I would not go in to the situation if the soldiers fighting for it did not want to fight for it. I don't believe in forcing service. But I guess I'm an idealist. e_e One population is not more or less worthy because I like them personally. I mean, who am I to judge? At the very least, I might think of it from a tactical sense if I needed to make a decision in an impossible situation.

Modifié par Adoramei, 01 avril 2013 - 07:05 .

[gisle]

Without a context, you will only get opinions from a meta standpoint, which will mean people will talk about how they're willing to kill ten billion+ people for personal reasons, or the actions of few.

I really won't answer your question because I can't imagine a scenario where a "sacrifice asari or [other species here]" would apply as a sollution so I can make it without the meta bias. Barring that, the question seems simple, yes? Try answering how your would sacrifice the asari. Taking individual civilians and military alike from their homes to kill off for one man/woman's choice sounds pretty awful. It's no different than killing every human if you see both species as the group of individuals they are.

Yes, yes, I know, geth/quarian/krogan extinction or near-extinction can happen during or after the third game, but that is different. Their death i a consequence of a choice that makes some sense.

Bendigoe wrote...

Asari have literally nothing unique to them other than mind sex and mind melting diseases.If we lost the Asari there would be absolutely nothing lost other than sex appeal. Youcould argue that because of the way Asari reproduce they possess the ability for Krogan to have non-krogan children, but that's null If you cured the Genophage.

Combat abilities and reproduction, that's all you weigh an entire sentient species by? The asari don't stick out that much, because their influence is subtle, and without them, the galaxy would be ruled very differently.  Think of the last cycle. And how do you think First Contact War would have played out if the council was ruled by the turians?

Edit: Removed newlines BSN's forum engine added in for sh­­its and giggles.

Modifié par Gisle-Aune, 01 avril 2013 - 07:33 .

[Han Shot First]

M25105 wrote...

Hot blue alien chicks that still look good when you're old and wrinkly? Save of course.

Also this.

[Adoramei]

Gisle-Aune wrote...

Without a context, you will only get opinions from a meta standpoint, which will mean people will talk about how they're willing to kill ten billion+ people for personal reasons, or the actions of few.

I really won't answer your question because I can't imagine a scenario where a "sacrifice asari or [other species here]" would apply as a sollution so I can make it without the meta bias. Barring that, the question seems simple, yes? Try answering how your would sacrifice the asari. Taking individual civilians and military alike from their homes to kill off for one man/woman's choice sounds pretty awful. It's no different than killing every human if you see both species as the group of individuals they are.

Yes, yes, I know, geth/quarian/krogan extinction or near-extinction can happen during or after the third game, but that is different. Their death i a consequence of a choice that makes some sense.

Absolutely true.

[Bleachrude]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...
Again...the protheans might've worked under the assumption that any space faring species would egineer/gain their touch reading power since it can be assumed that in their cycle, all the races that they interacted with that became protheans must've gained such a feature.

Trusting the fate of the Galaxy on an assumption?

Again, if every space faring species you know of in your cycle has this ability, why would you think that MULTIPLE races would later come about that don't have it?

To the protheans, it's equivalent to humans designing something that requires eyes and then later on, every species not being able to see...

edit: Asari unrealistic
Pretty much any alien race othe than the hanar and volus (and maybe the elcor) most science fiction writers would consider unrealistic so I can't really hold the asari up as being "unrealistic". Beside, they were explicitly designed to fill the green skinned alien babe trope.

ME, after all is said and done, is at its heart, SPACE OPERA.

And hot alien chicks is part of that genre (see Trek, Wars, Babylon 5, Farscape)

Modifié par Bleachrude, 01 avril 2013 - 08:13 .

[cerberus1701]

ThinkSharp wrote...

We had:

Geth vs. Quarians

Krogan vs. Salarians/Turians

But...

If ME had forced you to choose between the Asari and the rest of the galaxy* (or one of its species) who would you save?

--

*This was meant as hyperbole. I'm asking where you'd draw the line for Asari survival. 

They're the oldest/most advanced race. Are they worth saving no matter what? What would compel you to give them up?

I have said before, I would select Destroy regardless of who was up to be wiped out. (assuming I believed Starbaby)

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

BNN999 wrote...

I'd take Allers, Kai Leng, and Catalyst over the Asari.

This. A race of Mary Sues? Come on you guys at Edmonton.

[Steelcan]

They are a race of imperialist strippers. They hoard technology for their own gain, and I wouldn't have an issue with that but then they make it illegal for anyone else to do so. They are utterly incompetent fighters and I find them incredibly annoying.

Many one who thinks the Asari are this race of benevolent thinkers is just deluding themselves. They are just shy of the Protheans in mindset about the rest of the galaxy,

I'd kill them off without a second thought.

[Artifex_Imperius]

Asari=Humans
Asari>Turians
Asari>Krogan
Asari>Salarians
Asari>Batarians
Asari>Quarians

Asari are Imperialist? Capitalist? hmm sounds familiar, sounds like a human. everybody has secrets hoard tech?
Turians over Asari b*tch pls. 1st contact war. Again was it the Turians that wanted to invade conquer earth? If it wasn't for the Asari intervention earth would be smoldering ruin.
but to every Garrus-fan its all right if Garrus was governor general of earth and femshep p**sy?
Salarians; yeah geno-phage baby! oh i forgot the turians deployed the genophage.
Humans any better; tolerate Cerberus is still a representative of humanity? or no we humans are perfect? we don't have racist and supremacist?

last time i check thessia crown jewel of the galaxy," the "apex of democracy," and the "beating
heart of galactic love." Its republics have a remarkably low incidence
of war, disease, violent crime or famine.

yes! that one. anyone else wanna b*tch.

Modifié par Artifex_Imperius, 02 avril 2013 - 12:03 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

They are a race of imperialist strippers. They hoard technology for their own gain, and I wouldn't have an issue with that but then they make it illegal for anyone else to do so. They are utterly incompetent fighters and I find them incredibly annoying.

Many one who thinks the Asari are this race of benevolent thinkers is just deluding themselves. They are just shy of the Protheans in mindset about the rest of the galaxy,

I'd kill them off without a second thought.

You're my friend.

I'm sorry but this is complete crap.

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

They are a race of imperialist strippers. They hoard technology for their own gain, and I wouldn't have an issue with that but then they make it illegal for anyone else to do so. They are utterly incompetent fighters and I find them incredibly annoying.

Many one who thinks the Asari are this race of benevolent thinkers is just deluding themselves. They are just shy of the Protheans in mindset about the rest of the galaxy,

I'd kill them off without a second thought.

You're my friend.

I'm sorry but this is complete crap.

. They do hoard tech, they passed laws to make this kind of hoarding punishable as a war crime.  They are imperialistic, they are focused on expanding their own power through economic might and military alliance.  Calling the, incompetent has merits and me finding them annoying is an opinion.

I fail to see what is wrong in what I posted,

[ForThessia]

Steelcan wrote...
hey do hoard tech, they passed laws to make this kind of hoarding punishable as a war crime.  They are imperialistic, they are focused on expanding their own power through economic might and military alliance.  Calling the, incompetent has merits and me finding them annoying is an opinion.

How exactly are they incompetent? 

[Steelcan]

ForThessia wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
hey do hoard tech, they passed laws to make this kind of hoarding punishable as a war crime.  They are imperialistic, they are focused on expanding their own power through economic might and military alliance.  Calling the, incompetent has merits and me finding them annoying is an opinion.

How exactly are they incompetent? 

. Rachni wars, Krogan rebellions, Thessia.

[Ledgend1221]

ForThessia wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
hey do hoard tech, they passed laws to make this kind of hoarding punishable as a war crime.  They are imperialistic, they are focused on expanding their own power through economic might and military alliance.  Calling the, incompetent has merits and me finding them annoying is an opinion.

How exactly are they incompetent? 

They can't build ships for crap.