61 réponses à ce sujet

[Fieryeel]

Hi all, I need to confirm something important about Dexterity, because I have been getting conflicting views on it.

Does it or does it not improve the damage of SWORDS.

It is confirmed that Dexterity improves DAGGERS and BOWS, ignoring all other weapons. But what about swords?

People on the forums have been giving different opinions, and some are also citing that dual-wielding rogues using daggers only as evidence of swords not getting improved by dex score.

I intend to make a dual-sword wielding rogue duelist for RP purposes, and it would really suck if dex does not help sword in damage.

[tetracycloide]

If by 'improve the damage of SWORDS' you mean improves the physical damage of swords then no. It does, however, improve the damage of sword by increasing the attack attribute although strength increases it by the same amount so since strength adds damage in addition to attack it is the better stat to stack for pure damage.



If you want to dual wield, rogue or warrior, auto attack damage with daggers in both hands is normally better although this is especially true for rogues. If you want to stack dexterity daggers and bows are better weapons to use than swords as well. Maximum DPS on a rogue, however, is normally stacking cunning as long as there's a tank around. Solo rogues stack dex for the bonus to defense as well as its good offensive stats.

[Fieryeel]

Wow thanks for clarifying. So I should just get Lethality early, then boost my cunning alot?



But cunning doesn't really seem to do much does it? Just an unknown boost to AP and mental resistance.

[techmike919]

http://dragonage.wik...erity#Dexterity



This website has good explanations of the Attributes.

Also, here is a good forum post about DW Rogues and different weapon combos.



http://social.biowar...66/index/223777



Based on both, it looks like you would go after enough dex tfro the skills you plan on getting, then dumping a lot more into strength.

[tetracycloide]

Strength is an inferior stat for a rogue. Cunning adds bonus damage from the assassin specilization, adds bonuses to all the bard songs, armor penetration, and is a factor in the rolls for lockpicking, stealing, persuasion, and stealth. Strength adds only attack, damage, and the ability to wear heavy armor. As long as you have a tank in your group high cunning offer the most party utility AND the most damage. That's a win-win.

[SusanStoHelit]

Yep - cunning for rogue dual wielders. If you want to dual wield full size weapons, go DW Warrior instead.

[High Magus]

Though Daggers are always better for Dual Wielding. More attack speed is more damage. If you want to use a lot of skills use something like Starfang or Veshialle with the Rose's Thorn in the offhand to do better skill damage.

[soteria]

The only downside to stacking cunning is it doesn't increase your chance to hit.

[Carodej]

soteria wrote...

The only downside to stacking cunning is it doesn't increase your chance to hit.

Not the only downside.  You also lose out on making your Rogue practically impossible to hit with a sky high defense value.

But from what I've read in other posts, most people doing the cunning Rogue use buffs to more or less make up for these factors.

Modifié par Carodej, 16 janvier 2010 - 07:43 .

[mosspit]

Carodej wrote...

Not the only downside.  You also lose out on making your Rogue practically impossible to hit with a sky high defense value.

But from what I've read in other posts, most people doing the cunning Rogue use buffs to more or less make up for these factors.

True. It boils down to dps vs survivability. It really depends whether the tradeoff is in fact needed to be considered for the gamer. I always find when survivability gets into the dps context, it just gets messy.

[soteria]

Not the only downside. You also lose out on making your Rogue practically impossible to hit with a sky high defense value.



But from what I've read in other posts, most people doing the cunning Rogue use buffs to more or less make up for these factors.

We were comparing cunning to strength, not dexterity.

[mosspit]

soteria wrote...

We were comparing cunning to strength, not dexterity.

I look at this. I think. Then I looked at the Thread Title. I became amused.

[tetracycloide]

Carodej wrote...

Not the only downside.  You also lose out on making your Rogue practically impossible to hit with a sky high defense value.

But from what I've read in other posts, most people doing the cunning Rogue use buffs to more or less make up for these factors.

Defense is only a necessary stat if there no one else around to tank hits for the rogue.  There are a few solo areas in the game but lost in the fade and the fight with logain don't require high defense to win easily, just judicious use of stuns and cooldowns.  Properly supported a cunning rogue (80+ cunning) can average 100% hit rate by the end of the game, 95% before the autohit fest that is the siege of Denerim.  Stacking dexterity for attack or defense just doesn't make sense from a DPS perspective in a well supported group.  It's awesome for soloing though.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 16 janvier 2010 - 04:25 .

[soteria]

mosspit wrote...

soteria wrote...

We were comparing cunning to strength, not dexterity.

I look at this. I think. Then I looked at the Thread Title. I became amused.

Maybe if you read the thread after the title, you wouldn't have been confused.  A responder told the OP that he wanted strength and dexterity.  So, next time you decide to be a smart aleck, maybe you should insert another step--"Read the thread"--in your process.

[mosspit]

Lol chill... I was just amused to find the way the thread digress from the original.

[Fieryeel]

Well. This is all very informative.



I am turning my rogue into a 15/30/all for str/dex/cunning. Gonna use Duncan's Sword, and Rose's Thorn.

[Carodej]

Fieryeel wrote...

Well. This is all very informative.

I am turning my rogue into a 15/30/all for str/dex/cunning. Gonna use Duncan's Sword, and Rose's Thorn.

That probably won't work for you.  The Lethality talent really doesn't let you replace Cunning with Strength.  You need Strength to equip items too.  A 20 Strength is standard for tier 7 leather armors.  For a tier 7 longsword (I assume you want the red steel upgraded to dragonbone on Duncan's sword so that you get the extra rune slot as well as extra damage, armor penetration, and better crit chance) requires a 31 strength.

If your choice was for pre-Fade stats, that means you should be fine with the armor since there are several stat boosting items.  But I don't think there are enough Strength boosting items to allow you to equip the sword.

One other thing, if you didn't know it already, you can use stat boosting items to meet equipment requirements, and then take off the stat boosting item if you have something else you prefer for that slot.

Modifié par Carodej, 16 janvier 2010 - 06:38 .

[tetracycloide]

31 strength

-3 Vanguard

-2 key to the city

-2 harvest festival ring

-2 helm of honnleath

-2 andruil's blessing

-2 shadow of the empire

-1 witherfang amulet

-4 fade essences

= 13 strength needed



A bit pricey and time consuming to assemble but certainly doable. It does require that you side with caradin against branka to loot the mace, without it the barbarian mace from the chasind trail signs quest could be used raising the minimum requirement to 15. The witherfang ammulet requires that witherfang be killed as well without it there is no strength amulet for a maximum requirement of 16.

[fchopin]

If you are building a dw rogue then go for dex.

Put about 30 or 40 points in cun at least 30 points in willpower and all the rest in dex, your rogue will be a super fighter, trust me.

Edit: you will also need 20 points in str for the armour.

Modifié par fchopin, 17 janvier 2010 - 01:21 .

[tetracycloide]

That's probably the first time I've ever seen anyone recommend willpower for... any class build really. Points in willpower appear very poorly spent relative to what they could be doing in cunning, dexterity, or even strength. I'd just as soon pump magic or constitution on a rogue, would be roughly as useful.



There really are only two good choices for a dual wield rogue, cunning for max DPS or dexterity for slightly less DPS but more survivability and with less need for buff/debuff support. Outside of enough points to equip tier 7 armor and weapons at a reasonable point in the game (sometimes it's not worth waiting to get all of the stuff listed above just to eek out an extra few points) all points should go into which ever of the two above stats you decide to go with. Anything else would be a waste.

[fchopin]

tetracycloide wrote...

That's probably the first time I've ever seen anyone recommend willpower for... any class build really. Points in willpower appear very poorly spent relative to what they could be doing in cunning, dexterity, or even strength. I'd just as soon pump magic or constitution on a rogue, would be roughly as useful.

Well you are wrong, try it out before criticizing.

[tetracycloide]

Well with an argument like that who couldn't agree with you?  Seriously though, I've played enough dual wield rogues to know what works best and wasting points on willpower isn't it.  Maximizing auto attack damage and/or survivability is better than having enough stamina for an extra active ability per kill, even two.  Maximum stamina doesn't even tend to matter much after the first kill with feast of the fallen being the primary means of stamina regeneration.  Points in willpower are wasted on a rogue.

[fchopin]

From what you say in your post proves that you have never played a dw dex rogue.



A dex dw rogue without 30 willpower does not function correctly and will get in to trouble.



Again i say try before criticizing.

My last post today as i will play the game now.

[tetracycloide]

Isn't it a bit convenient for your argument that the fact that I disagree with you 'proves' I'm wrong?

"Does not function correctly" seems awfully vague given how vital you're characterizing those points in willpower to be. What does that mean, exactly? All willpower does is add stamina and the least useful resistance, neither of which a rogue needs to 'function correctly.' What is so important about the extra ~50 stamina that makes it vital to a rogue's function? What's the difference between getting this stamina through wasted attribute points and simply using deep mushrooms or feast of the fallen to restore it in battle? Why use up attribute points pumping stamina instead of adding damage, attack, and/or armor penetration to buff active abilities and auto attacks when active abilities are so weak relative to backstabs?

Modifié par tetracycloide, 17 janvier 2010 - 02:06 .

[soteria]

I've played two dw rogues now, slightly different builds, and don't find willpower very valuable. Using specials just means you kill things slower, not faster, since none of them can compete with the damage of momentum. Weapon sweep and whirlwind are handy, dirty fighting and riposte are handy, but those are really the only abilities I need, and they don't take *that* much stamina.