209 réponses à ce sujet

[Suron]

pprrff wrote...

There are dozens of random npcs standing around in the citadel doing nothing other than making the citadel looking busy. Same thing applies to the random crewmen on the normandy, they don't do anything other than just being there.

All Bioware did is make one of those background decoration into a character and used it for promotion. Allers wasn't there to replace an interesting character, she was there to replace a tree.

This.  And the hate is hilarious.  Yes the "integrity" since she's with IGN and IGN magically gave ME3 a perfect score is suspect.

But who cares?  We probably wouldn't have gotten a reporter otherwise.

Everyone is just butthurt since Chobot was included and she works with IGN.  And a bad VA? how? she doesn't even have many lines..she just talks..there's nothing to act out...no change of character needed....more garbage people make up as a reason to hate her more.  Baseless insults.

I couldn't care less that she's there..because it doesn't matter...and I'm an adult so I don't get butthurt and baselessly hate someone and bash them because I wanted someone else in their place.

Modifié par Suron, 01 avril 2013 - 03:14 .

[Archonsg]

Well, the thing is, my ill will towards Allers stem from the fact that they took the trouble to animate an obvious shoe-in bribe character but all Tali gets is a badly photoshopped picture taken off the Internet.
That really sucks.

[PirateMouse]

Archonsg wrote...

@piratemouse

An all red, all the time Shepard doesn't survive ME2.
;-)

Difference of being a jackass bully and a badass hardcase.

I'm pretty sure you could go pure red and still get your squadmates all or mostly all loyal?

Well, I don't know.  It doesn't matter to me because pure either is ridiculous anyway.  They're not even alignments, really, so much as characteristics.  "Renegade" is grim pragmatism, aggression, ruthlessness and self-reliance.  "Paragon" is wide-eyed idealism, peacefulness, friendliness and cooperation.  Neither is "good" or "evil" as such, as there are times when one or the other is more appropriate and times when both are appropriate in different ways.

[Bleachrude]

PirateMouse wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

@hanshotfirst

If you took the renegade response when Kelly admits to sending profile reports of you and crew to TIM, and you tell her that she is neither trustworthy nor forgiven.

Kelly than runs off and blew her brains out.
You hear it from Ken and Gabby.

Geesh, poor kid.  She's not very emotionally stable, is she? I guess it fits though ... all that touchy-feely behavior, the needing to be close to everyone and get positive feedback from everyone ... she probably has an incredibly fragile self-esteem.

That's not the reason why....it's actually one of the better callbacks to the earlier game.

If you saved everyone from the collector base, ALL of the crew you interact with are traumatized to an extent.

Chakwas breaks down when talking to Adams (this is during the Priority Tuchanka missions where Eve/Bakara is occupying medical)

When Gabby tries to talk to Ken about it, ken is actually harsh with Gabby and tells her straight out "NO, I don't" which basically shuts down that conversation.

If you try to get Kelly back on the ship, she pretty much breaks down in front of you because the trauma was so bad (actually, talk to her after the suicide mission in ME2 and she's much different personality-wise)

All 4 of the abductees are somewhat mentally unstable because of their abduction...

[PirateMouse]

David7204 wrote...

So why is Paragon Shepard a 'naive idiot' again? And remember, you did literally just define him as someone willing to activate the Project.

Actually I didn't.  The game doesn't run you on rails on that point.

You can in fact let the clock run out waiting for a blue "Space Jesus saves everyone again" option to appear!

It won't of course, but your Shepard has no way to know that with absolute certainty ... particularly given how often the plot bends over backwards to coddle Space Jesus the rest of the time.

So Pure Paragon Space Jesus, who's never willing to sacrifice the few for the many because that is a distinctly Renegade concept, waits out the clock counting on that hidden last-second Paragon interrupt or blue dialogue option to appear that will fix everything and save everyone like it always has before!

Only the miracle doesn't happen this time.

[spirosz]

Suron wrote...

snip*

Each NPC has a generic look (most in general, that don't involve themselves with any side quest/plot), that's been seen throughout all three games, where as Chobot had her face directly transfered into the game - I'm assuming that isn't cheap and when was the critearia for VA... to not include VA experience?  Unless Chobot has released information that she has experience or has gone to school or whatever for this, then I'll back off, but don't give me an argument stating that information is personal, bull****. 

[David7204]

PirateMouse wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

@piratemouse

An all red, all the time Shepard doesn't survive ME2.
;-)

Difference of being a jackass bully and a badass hardcase.

I'm pretty sure you could go pure red and still get your squadmates all or mostly all loyal?

Well, I don't know.  It doesn't matter to me because pure either is ridiculous anyway.  They're not even alignments, really, so much as characteristics.  "Renegade" is grim pragmatism, aggression, ruthlessness and self-reliance.  "Paragon" is wide-eyed idealism, peacefulness, friendliness and cooperation.  Neither is "good" or "evil" as such, as there are times when one or the other is more appropriate and times when both are appropriate in different ways.

That's not true at all. Even the most Paragon Shepard kills hundreds of people. There's no way you can spin that into idolizing peace.

[PirateMouse]

Bleachrude wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

@hanshotfirst

If you took the renegade response when Kelly admits to sending profile reports of you and crew to TIM, and you tell her that she is neither trustworthy nor forgiven.

Kelly than runs off and blew her brains out.
You hear it from Ken and Gabby.

Geesh, poor kid.  She's not very emotionally stable, is she? I guess it fits though ... all that touchy-feely behavior, the needing to be close to everyone and get positive feedback from everyone ... she probably has an incredibly fragile self-esteem.

That's not the reason why....it's actually one of the better callbacks to the earlier game.

If you saved everyone from the collector base, ALL of the crew you interact with are traumatized to an extent.

Chakwas breaks down when talking to Adams (this is during the Priority Tuchanka missions where Eve/Bakara is occupying medical)

When Gabby tries to talk to Ken about it, ken is actually harsh with Gabby and tells her straight out "NO, I don't" which basically shuts down that conversation.

If you try to get Kelly back on the ship, she pretty much breaks down in front of you because the trauma was so bad (actually, talk to her after the suicide mission in ME2 and she's much different personality-wise)

All 4 of the abductees are somewhat mentally unstable because of their abduction...

Well yes, I grant all of that ... but Kelly is still way more fragile if she's committing suicide just because you're mean to her.  They're all traumatized, I get that ... but she's literally ending her life over mean words.  PTSD may be contributing to that, but I think she was always fragile.

[PirateMouse]

David7204 wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

@piratemouse

An all red, all the time Shepard doesn't survive ME2.
;-)

Difference of being a jackass bully and a badass hardcase.

I'm pretty sure you could go pure red and still get your squadmates all or mostly all loyal?

Well, I don't know.  It doesn't matter to me because pure either is ridiculous anyway.  They're not even alignments, really, so much as characteristics.  "Renegade" is grim pragmatism, aggression, ruthlessness and self-reliance.  "Paragon" is wide-eyed idealism, peacefulness, friendliness and cooperation.  Neither is "good" or "evil" as such, as there are times when one or the other is more appropriate and times when both are appropriate in different ways.

That's not true at all. Even the most Paragon Shepard kills hundreds of people. There's no way you can spin that into idolizing peace.

Yes, but those are enemies in combat ... not innocents.  What Paragon Shepards don't do is sacrifice some innocents to save more innocents -- or rather, doing that is not a Paragon concept.  Paragon ideology holds that you can find a way to save all of the innocents.

Sacrificing the few for the many is a Renegade concept, as illustrated by the fact that every dialogue option that has Shepard talk about doing it is a Renegade dialogue option ... and any Shepard, no matter how Paragon overall, who is ever willing to sacrifice innocents for any reason (even very good reasons) has a little bit of Renegade in him or her.

The only successful resolution to Arrival requires exactly that kind of sacrifice (and how!); ergo, a Shepard who is incapable of ever engaging in a Renegade action cannot do it.

Modifié par PirateMouse, 01 avril 2013 - 03:41 .

[Reap_ii]

she was okay. voice acted a little robotically, but still okay I guess.

[Bleachrude]

PirateMouse wrote...



Well yes, I grant all of that ... but Kelly is still way more fragile if she's committing suicide just because you're mean to her.  They're all traumatized, I get that ... but she's literally ending her life over mean words.  PTSD may be contributing to that, but I think she was always fragile.

Really?

\\How exactly should a civilian (remember, kelly has no experience with the military unlike ken, gabby and chakwas and unlike Chakwas has probably never seen a dead body at all....) act when getting abducted by nightmarish creature then throw into a confined space and get to watch as hundreds of people get turned into people slurree....

And then to have her saviour basically say "I shouldn't have saved you".

*LOL*

Videogames have warped our ideas as to what the average human psyche is like....

[David7204]

PirateMouse wrote...

David7204 wrote...

So why is Paragon Shepard a 'naive idiot' again? And remember, you did literally just define him as someone willing to activate the Project.

Actually I didn't.  The game doesn't run you on rails on that point.

You can in fact let the clock run out waiting for a blue "Space Jesus saves everyone again" option to appear!

It won't of course, but your Shepard has no way to know that with absolute certainty ... particularly given how often the plot bends over backwards to coddle Space Jesus the rest of the time.

So Pure Paragon Space Jesus, who's never willing to sacrifice the few for the many because that is a distinctly Renegade concept, waits out the clock counting on that hidden last-second Paragon interrupt or blue dialogue option to appear that will fix everything and save everyone like it always has before!

Only the miracle doesn't happen this time.

This is just stupid. By that logic, Shepard never kills anyone or does anything because he hides behind a rock on Eden Prime for all eternity because he doesn't want to shoot that poor geth drone.

[PirateMouse]

Bleachrude wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...



Well yes, I grant all of that ... but Kelly is still way more fragile if she's committing suicide just because you're mean to her.  They're all traumatized, I get that ... but she's literally ending her life over mean words.  PTSD may be contributing to that, but I think she was always fragile.

Really?

How exactly should a civilian (remember, kelly has no experience with the military unlike ken, gabby and chakwas and unlike Chakwas has probably never seen a dead body at all....) act when getting abducted by nightmarish creature then throw into a confined space and get to watch as hundreds of people get turned into people slurree....

And then to have her saviour basically say "I shouldn't have saved you".

*LOL*

Videogames have warped our ideas as to what the average human psyche is like....

Okay, I understand it upsets her, even a lot.  I could totally see crying.  But people who actually go so far as to commit suicide do so because they believe they have nothing left to live for.  So ... because you're mean to her, Kelly now believes she has nothing left to live for?

I guess we can agree to disagree here.  I do see your point, but I just don't see how an otherwise stable person even having experienced that kind of trauma would be driven to suicide by mean words from one person.  I suppose perhaps we have different definitions of what constitutes a "stable" person.

Modifié par PirateMouse, 01 avril 2013 - 03:46 .

[PirateMouse]

David7204 wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...

David7204 wrote...

So why is Paragon Shepard a 'naive idiot' again? And remember, you did literally just define him as someone willing to activate the Project.

Actually I didn't.  The game doesn't run you on rails on that point.

You can in fact let the clock run out waiting for a blue "Space Jesus saves everyone again" option to appear!

It won't of course, but your Shepard has no way to know that with absolute certainty ... particularly given how often the plot bends over backwards to coddle Space Jesus the rest of the time.

So Pure Paragon Space Jesus, who's never willing to sacrifice the few for the many because that is a distinctly Renegade concept, waits out the clock counting on that hidden last-second Paragon interrupt or blue dialogue option to appear that will fix everything and save everyone like it always has before!

Only the miracle doesn't happen this time.

This is just stupid. By that logic, Shepard never kills anyone or does anything because he hides behind a rock on Eden Prime for all eternity because he doesn't want to shoot that poor geth drone.

Yeah I covered this already.

[David7204]

No. You didn't. You've decided that a Paragon Shepard would ever kill enemies in combat, but when evidence is brought up against that, you dismiss it. Based on stupid nonsense. It doesn't work that way. You don't get to cherry pick which examples you want to see and which ones you don't. If Shepard shoots the geth drone, he activates the Project. You have no basis for separating the two.

[Bleachrude]

kelly _WAS_ stable before getting abducted by the collectors...

She wasn't after though...(when you complete the suicide mission, you can talk to her and she's definitely not the cheery/happy person from before)

The thing is...she never recovered and there probably was no pyschologist she could've gone too to help her. (somehow, I doubt cerberus employs one)

[PirateMouse]

David7204 wrote...

No. You didn't. You've decided that a Paragon Shepard would ever kill enemies in combat, but when evidence is brought up against that, you dismiss it. Based on stupid nonsense. It doesn't work that way. You don't get to cherry pick which examples you want to see and which ones you don't. If Shepard shoots the geth drone, he activates the Project. You have no basis for separating the two.

I'm not going to hold your hand throughout this thread.  I did cover exactly this earlier when I drew a line between killing enemies in combat (fine for pure Paragons) and sacrificing innocents for any reason (not fine).  It isn't my responsibility to keep re-explaining things you haven't bothered to read, and I won't do it again.

Modifié par PirateMouse, 01 avril 2013 - 03:55 .

[Urazz]

I personally felt Diana Allers was a waste of resources. They could've saved a lot more money just using Emily Wong instead of spending money on getting Jessica Chobot to voice the character and let them base the character's appearance off her real appearance. It just made a very minor character much more expensive than she should've been.

[Han Shot First]

Archonsg wrote...

@hanshotfirst

If you took the renegade response when Kelly admits to sending profile reports of you and crew to TIM, and you tell her that she is neither trustworthy nor forgiven.

Kelly than runs off and blew her brains out.
You hear it from Ken and Gabby.

Wow.

Kelly died in my initial playthrough of ME3, but it was Cerberus that did the deed. I had no idea that she could end up killing herself. It makes sense however, considering that she seemed to be suffering from PTSD.

[arial]

I am scared for Society since everyone on these forums seem to think "I don't like that Characters, off with their heads!"

[PirateMouse]

Bleachrude wrote...

kelly _WAS_ stable before getting abducted by the collectors...

She wasn't after though...(when you complete the suicide mission, you can talk to her and she's definitely not the cheery/happy person from before)

The thing is...she never recovered and there probably was no pyschologist she could've gone too to help her. (somehow, I doubt cerberus employs one)

Oh, I know she was definitely impacted by it after.  I saw the change in her too, to be sure.

I just still don't believe she had a very solid self-esteem before the abduction.  The fact that she presented a cheery front doesn't mean she didn't have real and serious self-esteem issues she was concealing.

It's my opinion, and I freely admit I could be mistaken.  It's just how I read her.

[PwrdOff]

The best thing about Kelly was that she made Sam seem that much more awesome by comparison.

[David7204]

PirateMouse wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No. You didn't. You've decided that a Paragon Shepard would ever kill enemies in combat, but when evidence is brought up against that, you dismiss it. Based on stupid nonsense. It doesn't work that way. You don't get to cherry pick which examples you want to see and which ones you don't. If Shepard shoots the geth drone, he activates the Project. You have no basis for separating the two.

I'm not going to hold your hand throughout this thread.  I did cover exactly this earlier when I drew a line between killing enemies in combat (fine for pure Paragons) and sacrificing innocents for any reason (not fine).  It isn't my responsibility to keep re-explaining things you haven't bothered to read, and I won't do it again.

Which is a line you drew by explictly ignoring content that rebuffs it and accepting content that confirms it in a childishly transparent act of confirmation bias.

[PirateMouse]

BNN999 wrote...

The best thing about Kelly was that she made Sam seem that much more awesome by comparison.

See, I actually liked Samantha Traynor, too ... and for that matter off the top of my head James Vega as well.  New characters can be great when their introduction is appropriate and they're well-acted and at least a little interesting or likeable.

And not, you know ... cheap game magazine promotional stunts. 

[SaidRael]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I didn't regret it, but I didn't care either. I forgot she was there for 90% of the game. Complete waste of space.

pretty much this...I joke about Allers but really? I don't really care, never bother me