438 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

According to the synopsis of the new book, "The Masked Empire", the novel will deal with Empress Celene and Grand Duke Gaspard, who are apparently in a civil war over Orlais. This novel may serve as a prelude to the civil war over Orlais that could play some role in Inquisition. Some have speculated that the storyline of Inquisition will invite the player to choose a side in the civil war between Celene and Gaspard over control of Orlais.

The Orlesian Empire expanded it's territory into the elven kingdom of the Dales after their victoty in the Exalted March of the Dales, and it's rumored in Asunder that Celene was lured out of Val Royeaux by Gaspard because of rumored elven uprisings in Halamshiral, which was the capital of the Dales under elven rule.

With the apparent elven uprisings in Orlais, I'm wondering if there could be a third option: siding with the elves instead of the Empress or the Grand Duke. There's a possibility that some elves could be attempting to reclaim control of occupied Dales from Orlais, and I think it would be interesting if the protagonist could side with them instead of Celene or Gaspard. It could be an interesting opportunity to explore elven culture under Orlesian occupation, and make a proactive difference in their lives by helping them regain control of their homeland from the Orlesian Empire.

[JasonPogo]

I think at best if that is how the game goes you might be able to talk Celene or Gaspard to side with the elves and give them back their land in return for their help in the civil war.

[Reznore57]

There's a lot of speculation in your post ,LobselVith8.
We don't know what will happen in the book ...Celene /Gaspard could die , the conflict could be resolved.

And siding with the elves would be counter productive to resolve any conflict....It wouldn't help the civil war at all...
Trying to convince Celene/Gaspard that they need elves in their war effort , that giving the Dales back would gain them many allies ...possible.
But it seems the civil war is a fight for the throne , Elves may play a bigger role but I'm pretty sure they can't have access to that throne.

[Fast Jimmy]

Who are "the elves," though?

There are dozens of Dalish clans, but none unite under one banner. There are Alienages in every major city, but these elves now are, by language, culture, history and geography, more tied to the countries they live in rather than some ethereal, intangible Elven "culture."

So, who would either Celebe or Gaspard give land to if such a scenario were to present itself?

[The Six Path of Pain]

If those are the choices a betray option for either side would be awesome >

[LobselVith8]

Reznore57 wrote...

There's a lot of speculation in your post ,LobselVith8.
We don't know what will happen in the book ...Celene /Gaspard could die , the conflict could be resolved.

I thought I made that clear in the OP. Given how little we really know about Inquisition, many discussions are mostly speculation. This is merely my thoughts on the hypothetical matter of siding with the elves, as opposed to supporting either Empress Celene or Grand Duke Gaspard.

Reznore57 wrote...

And siding with the elves would be counter productive to resolve any conflict....It wouldn't help the civil war at all...
Trying to convince Celene/Gaspard that they need elves in their war effort , that giving the Dales back would gain them many allies ...possible.

What if I'm not inclined to help Celene or Gaspard, though? I'm genuinely more interested in aiding the elves.

Reznore57 wrote...

But it seems the civil war is a fight for the throne , Elves may play a bigger role but I'm pretty sure they can't have access to that throne. 

I'm thinking more along the line of reclaiming their homeland (the Dales) at the moment.

[In Exile]

LobselVith8 wrote...
With the apparent elven uprisings in Orlais, I'm wondering if there could be a third option: siding with the elves instead of the Empress or the Grand Duke. There's a possibility that some elves could be attempting to reclaim control of occupied Dales from Orlais, and I think it would be interesting if the protagonist could side with them instead of Celene or Gaspard. It could be an interesting opportunity to explore elven culture under Orlesian occupation, and make a proactive difference in their lives by helping them regain control of their homeland from the Orlesian Empire.

Why would it be "instead of"? And with what army, exactly? The starving masses of elves?

[LobselVith8]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Who are "the elves," though?

There are dozens of Dalish clans, but none unite under one banner. There are Alienages in every major city, but these elves now are, by language, culture, history and geography, more tied to the countries they live in rather than some ethereal, intangible Elven "culture."

So, who would either Celebe or Gaspard give land to if such a scenario were to present itself?

I think it would be interesting to encounter different elven factions that have their own goals and purposes. I doubt all elves want the same thing - even among those who may be rebelling in occupied Dales. And as you pointed out, there are differences between the Alienage elves and the elves of the Dalish clans (and even among the Dalish clans themselves). 

Perhaps the protagonist can discuss this matter with the Dalish during Arlathvhen, and play a part in reaching some consensus among the different leaders of the clans on the matter?

[Reznore57]

Well , Fenris was talking about a large gathering of the clans in Halamshiral in MOTA.
Maybe the Dalish see the Civil War as an opportunity.

Also , it seems Celene 's elf lover always tried to make life better for elves and is ready to betray her empress.

" But in the end, the elves who hide in the forests or starve in the alienages may decide the fate of the masked empire."

I don't know what will happen...Will the Dalish strike and the city elves follow their example.
Will they meet and agree to unite their strenght.
I just think it's nice the elves are actually doing something .

Edit :LobselVith8 , I was saying this because if the civil war is a main plot to solve , you're not solving it by siding with the elves.
They are a sub plot , could be a very important one ,that could have affect on the main thing.
But it just means the Dalish gets the Dales back while the rest of Orlais is still killing each others.
When something like this happens , people who are fighting stops , Kick the ass of intruders , and then get back to fighting.
But I'm also more interested in the Elves than Celene/Gaspard war.

Modifié par Reznore57, 01 avril 2013 - 05:18 .

[lil yonce]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Who are "the elves," though? There are dozens of Dalish clans, but none unite under one banner.

A large number of Dalish clans are meeting in Halamshiral for Arlathvhen.

There are Alienages in every major city, but these elves now are, by language, culture, history and geography, more tied to the countries they live in rather than some ethereal, intangible Elven "culture."

The synopsis for The Masked Empire sounds like the City Elves across Orlais are also using the civil war to rebel.

So, who would either Celebe or Gaspard give land to if such a scenario were to present itself?

The Dalish who help one side win the civil war. They get Halamshiral and perhaps the rest of the Dales. City Elves could possibly help and leave the cities after that.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 01 avril 2013 - 05:17 .

[LobselVith8]

In Exile wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

With the apparent elven uprisings in Orlais, I'm wondering if there could be a third option: siding with the elves instead of the Empress or the Grand Duke. There's a possibility that some elves could be attempting to reclaim control of occupied Dales from Orlais, and I think it would be interesting if the protagonist could side with them instead of Celene or Gaspard. It could be an interesting opportunity to explore elven culture under Orlesian occupation, and make a proactive difference in their lives by helping them regain control of their homeland from the Orlesian Empire.

Why would it be "instead of"?

It's all hypothetical at this point. Since some have speculated that there could be a choice between siding with Celene or Gaspard, I'm thinking along the lines of a third option: siding with the elves. That's pretty much why I phrased it along the lines of "instead of" in my OP.

Maybe I'm thinking along the lines of New Vegas, where you could go along different courses of action depending on what your Courier thought was right. Support the NCR, support the Legion, support House, or attempt to create an independent Vegas and play a role in the fate of your neighbors depending on how you felt about them - like the Great Khans, the Brotherhood of Steel, the Boomers, the Followers of the Apocalypse, the Remnants, and the other groups in the Mojave.

In Exile wrote...

And with what army, exactly? The starving masses of elves? 

We really don't know anything about the potential elven rebels. It's open to speculation at this point.

[lil yonce]

I don't think it's a good idea to help Orlais fall. There will likely be a much greater threat to deal with and the more military strength and stability in one of the most powerful countries the better. The protagonist will be human and if they're Orlesian which I think is a strong possibility, why would they want Orlais to fall?

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 01 avril 2013 - 05:23 .

[grumpymooselion]

Hopefully we get an option to stomp the elves further into the ground as well, maybe even to hunt down any Dalish clans in reach. Just another option, essentially, besides Support or Ignore.

[LobselVith8]

Janan Pacha wrote...

Hopefully we get an option to stomp the elves further into the ground as well, maybe even to hunt down any Dalish clans in reach. Just another option, essentially, besides Support or Ignore.

Like how the Courier could help or hinder the Great Khans in New Vegas by convincing them to either leave and forge their own destiny and nation, or destroy themselves by keeping their agreement with the Legion or sacrificing themselves against the NCR troops during the Battle of Hoover Dam?

I certainly think there should be multiple options in how to handle issues and people in the storyline, including how to work with or against specific factions. I'm for the idea of having a proactive protagonist.

[dragondreamer]

I'm hoping for a coalition between the mages and the elves. But I imagine it might be a goal of the PC to choose and form alliances, etc. Orlais is a perfect storm of chaos, so I'm hoping there's more potential outcomes than just siding with group A or group B.

[grumpymooselion]

Just as long as it's not as simple as 'outright destroy' I'd still prefer there be some thought and reason behind any given decision.

[lil yonce]

dragondreamer wrote...

I'm hoping for a coalition between the mages and the elves. But I imagine it might be a goal of the PC to choose and form alliances, etc. Orlais is a perfect storm of chaos, so I'm hoping there's more potential outcomes than just siding with group A or group B.

I'm not sure why the elves would want to help the mages when the mages are being hunted by Templars and considering mages destroyed their first homeland. And if they elves do nothing to help the mages one threat in the Chantry/Templars and one potential threat in the Mages are gone.

[dragondreamer]

Youth4Ever wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

I'm hoping for a coalition between the mages and the elves. But I imagine it might be a goal of the PC to choose and form alliances, etc. Orlais is a perfect storm of chaos, so I'm hoping there's more potential outcomes than just siding with group A or group B.

I'm not sure why the elves would want to help the mages when the mages are being hunted by Templars and considering mages destroyed their first homeland. And if they elves do nothing to help the mages one threat in the Chantry/Templars and one potential threat in the Mages are gone.

Tevinter destroyed their homeland.  Unless we're talking about Fenris, the elves, and especially the Dalish have nothing against mages.  The Dalish nobility were all mages, and the Keepers are mages.  The Dalish even trade around mage children, like Merrill, trying to keep magic alive in their clans.  Magic used to be a very important part of elvish culture.  I can easily see two persecuted peoples coming together under the right circumstances.

[lil yonce]

dragondreamer wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

I'm hoping for a coalition between the mages and the elves. But I imagine it might be a goal of the PC to choose and form alliances, etc. Orlais is a perfect storm of chaos, so I'm hoping there's more potential outcomes than just siding with group A or group B.

I'm not sure why the elves would want to help the mages when the mages are being hunted by Templars and considering mages destroyed their first homeland. And if they elves do nothing to help the mages one threat in the Chantry/Templars and one potential threat in the Mages are gone.

Tevinter destroyed their homeland.  Unless we're talking about Fenris, the elves, and especially the Dalish have nothing against mages.  The Dalish nobility were all mages, and the Keepers are mages.  The Dalish even trade around mage children, like Merrill, trying to keep magic alive in their clans.  Magic used to be a very important part of elvish culture.  I can easily see two persecuted peoples coming together under the right circumstances.

But there is no Dalish nobility now, the Keeper is one individual who conviently knows the most about Dalish history in a clan, they never have more than two mages in a clan at a time, and by helping the mages they'd be helping a new mage state form, one they won't be participating in if their angle is to take back the Dales. And why should they expect a new mage state to be so different from Tevinter? Especially if those mages begin using blood magic, and considering not unlike Tevinter one small group is making decisions for everyone-- all mages rebel. That could be viewed as an elite group running a new mage state that they desire/is in their best interests-- generally selfish like Tevinter mages.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 01 avril 2013 - 06:11 .

[VanguardCharge]

but i exterminated all the ferelden dalish with my army of warewovles in origins. can i give orlais to warewolves?

[Fast Jimmy]

VanguardCharge wrote...

but i exterminated all the ferelden dalish with my army of warewovles in origins. can i give orlais to warewolves?

Well, there are more than one Dalish clan. Dozens, in fact. So killing one group doesn't mean the Dalish are "gone" or anything. 

And I don't think the werewolves would have any use for an entire country, or even one city, since they are so small in number and are more feral in nature. 

[dragondreamer]

Youth4Ever wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

I'm hoping for a coalition between the mages and the elves. But I imagine it might be a goal of the PC to choose and form alliances, etc. Orlais is a perfect storm of chaos, so I'm hoping there's more potential outcomes than just siding with group A or group B.

I'm not sure why the elves would want to help the mages when the mages are being hunted by Templars and considering mages destroyed their first homeland. And if they elves do nothing to help the mages one threat in the Chantry/Templars and one potential threat in the Mages are gone.

Tevinter destroyed their homeland.  Unless we're talking about Fenris, the elves, and especially the Dalish have nothing against mages.  The Dalish nobility were all mages, and the Keepers are mages.  The Dalish even trade around mage children, like Merrill, trying to keep magic alive in their clans.  Magic used to be a very important part of elvish culture.  I can easily see two persecuted peoples coming together under the right circumstances.

But there is no Dalish nobility now, the Keeper is one individual who conviently knows the most about Dalish history in a clan, and by helping the mages they'd be helping a new mage state form, one they won't be participating in if their angle is to take back the Dales. And why should they expect a new mage state to be so different from Tevinter? Especially if those mages begin using blood magic, and considering not unlike Tevinter one small group made a decision for all mages to rebel. That could be viewed as an elite group running a new mage state that they desire/is in their best interests-- generally selfish like Tevinter mages.

Every clan has a Keeper, and that isn't counting the other mages a clan may have, including the First.  Marethari even says that one of the reasons the clans move around is so the templars won't bother them.  The Dalish nobility technically don't exist anymore, but the Dalish are descended from them, and they're pretty proud of that.  That's why the Keeper keeps the history and the knowledge of the old ways they still have, which includes their use of magic.  

I don't know if I want to try to predict specific circumstances, but maybe they'd be willing to help the mages in Orlais if they thought it could help them win back the Dales.  Considering that the old Dales was basically a mage ruled state itself, not unlike Arlathan, I don't see why the presence of another mage state would be a dealbreaker if they could potentially get what they want.  Also both the Dalish and the mages have an axe to grind with the Chantry; working with the mages to cripple of the Chantry's seat of power would be something I'd imagine they'd find favorable.

[iOnlySignIn]

Yeah, and it would lead to a quick Game Over.

BioWare have established that the Elves are capable of nothing other than failure when acting as a group. I doubt that is going to change.

[VanguardCharge]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

VanguardCharge wrote...

but i exterminated all the ferelden dalish with my army of warewovles in origins. can i give orlais to warewolves?

Well, there are more than one Dalish clan. Dozens, in fact. So killing one group doesn't mean the Dalish are "gone" or anything. 

And I don't think the werewolves would have any use for an entire country, or even one city, since they are so small in number and are more feral in nature. 

but dont you it would be pretty cool to have this majestic city of orlais come crushing down under the power of the inquisitors warewolfs army? besides a city of warefuls would be pretty sick 

[lil yonce]

dragondreamer wrote...

Every clan has a Keeper, and that isn't counting the other mages a clan may have, including the First. Marethari even says that one of the reasons the clans move around is so the templars won't bother them.

I edited my response to add the wiki says clans have only mages at a time. Not a substantial number. And I noted the Keeper is important because they know most about the clan's history and about Dalish history. They won't be as important when new politics take over in the new Dalish nation.

The Dalish nobility technically don't exist anymore, but the Dalish are descended from them, and they're pretty proud of that. That's why the Keeper keeps the history and the knowledge of the old ways they still have, which includes their use of magic.

Times have changed. Why would non-mage Dalish elves-- the majority-- want mages ruling over them? One who knows about your individual tribe and about Dalish history in general is different from a formal government run by a mage nobility.

I don't know if I want to try to predict specific circumstances, but maybe they'd be willing to help the mages in Orlais if they thought it could help them win back the Dales.

It won't help them if they lose men to templars and a threatened Orlais crushes their remaining army at first opportunity.

Considering that the old Dales was basically a mage ruled state itself, not unlike Arlathan, I don't see why the presence of another mage state would be a dealbreaker if they could potentially get what they want.

Because the Dalish have only a small number of mages who serve very specific and fuctional uses now, the majority of Dalish are not mages like in Arlathan, and human mages, the majority of mages they'd be helping, destroyed their first homeland, and new politics-- clan politics will take over in the new nation IMO with everything else taking a backseat. Different dynamics from Arlathan and the old Dales.

Also both the Dalish and the mages have an axe to grind with the Chantry; working with the mages to cripple of the Chantry's seat of power would be something I'd imagine they'd find favorable.

And that axe could be ground by allowing the mages and templars to destroy each other. The Chanty will have no power without an army and a new mage state is nipped in the bud before it can be become even a potential threat.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 02 avril 2013 - 03:25 .