438 réponses à ce sujet

[Senya]

LobselVith8 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

^^

Empire or not, if it is true that the elves refused to aid in a Blight, they did violate a treaty held with the Grey Wardens at the very least.

I think the Grey Wardens made a treaty with the Dalish clans, as opposed to the elves of the Dales.

almostinsane99 wrote...

Again, I would repeat my above statement that, given Thedas is grey/dark, I wouldn't say there's a clear-cut evil/good guy if I'm forced to make any assumption at all.

Both the Dalish and Orlais probably did write their history to make themselves look good.

Possibly. We can't say for certain. However, in contrast to some posters, I'm not inclined to condemn the Dales for keeping out the Chantry or the Orlesian Empire.

It depends. Military troops they have every right to keep out. Diplomacy, trade, and travelers connects the world and prevents isolation.

Isolation dehumanizes those who are isolated from those they're isolating themselves from and vice versa. I'm not saying the elves deserved what happened to them because of their isolation, though. Rather, I'm saying that their isolation played a part in hostilities risng up as they often do between two different peoples whether isolated or not. However, trade and communication are two counterweights to war. Eliminating those eliminated economic factors and simple understanding and diplomacy averting war.

To add all that, isolating yourself during a Blight is a spiteful mood, considering Orlais only attacked them after the Blight, if Orlais did attack them first.

[Plaintiff]

Ausstig wrote...
1. So is it not racist to say that the children of Blacks and Whites are Black? (Unless it's Australian Aborigines, in which case they get whiter).

What the hell are you talking about? That's not how genetics works at all.

[Ausstig]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

2. The Elves have the right to do that. What they don't have the right to do is close themselves off from the world. They don't have the right to let the Darkspawn sack a town right on their boarder. You talke as if letting some Humans in would turn all the Elves into slaves.

Incorrect. The elves aren't under any obligation to allow anyone into their sovereign territory, especially hostile humans who have no respect for their culture or their religion.

Ausstig wrote...

3. Read Sir K's post again. We are not talking about the codex or the fall of the Dales. We are talking about the historical context. There are facts which do not suppourt the 'poor attacked Elves' arguments that you make. Do you deny that Orlais has been weakened by 90 years of war?  

The historical context is that the elves of the Dales kept out an empire known for invading its neighbors. And none of the facts dismiss the Dalish version of events as untrue. Also, Orlais invaded Nevarra after the Third Blight, so your latter point can be viewed in that context.

2. You say that but at the time the Elves had not been an oppressed minority in a generation. They were the vanguard of Andrsate's war against Tevinter, they even had a verse about them in the Chant. I don't think they were treated with disrespect, atitudes change over time.

3. The historical context is that Orlais was at it's weakest point when the war with the Elves started.They may not directly disprove it but they do not suppourt it and add weight to the argument that orlais did not want a war. Also the SSecond Blight was mostly fought on Orlais land unlike the third Blight. So your point there is missused.

[LobselVith8]

almostinsane99 wrote...

It depends. Military troops they have every right to keep out. Diplomacy, trade, and travelers connects the world and prevents isolation.

Isolation dehumanizes those who are isolated from those they're isolating themselves from and vice versa. I'm not saying the elves deserved what happened to them because of their isolation, though. Rather, I'm saying that their isolation played a part in hostilities risng up as they often do between two different peoples whether isolated or not. However, trade and communication are two counterweights to war. Eliminating those eliminated economic factors and simple understanding and diplomacy averting war.

Given how Orlais was being created by Drakon invading his neighbors and making his specific Cult of Andraste mandatory, I don't see why the Dales should have opened their border to an empire of invaders. Or potential spies masquerading as traders or travelers. And since the Orlesian Empire conquers (just ask Ferelden and Nevarra), I doubt anything would dissuade them.

almostinsane99 wrote...

To add all that, isolating yourself during a Blight is a spiteful mood, considering Orlais only attacked them after the Blight, if Orlais did attack them first. 

The elves wanted to regain their immortality. That was the focus. However, I don't think isolating yourself from a human nation that is seizing control of nearby lands and forcing people to convert to their leader's cult turned national religion was the wrong move. Orlais was an enemy, not an ally. And not helping a nation that wants to conquer and convert you can be seen as an act of self-preservation.

[Sir JK]

I addressed the notion of Orlais currently being a towering threat and a power of war and conversion in this post

One thing to bear in mind about the Dalish account is that both codex entries (the dalish version) describes the Dales as in southern Orlais. This strongly suggests to me that Gisharel, the elf who wrote them (or said them), has in his mind accepted the Dales as Orlesian. Which leads me to suspect that the man never lived in the Dales his entire life. I strongly doubt that any such elf would ever describe the Dales as Orlesian (occupied by Orlais however).
Note also that Gisharel in his other entries is holding a position of extreme Dalish superiority and a strong belief that all human kingdoms must fall.

[Asdrubael Vect]

damn you hypocrites....

elves(as like Dwarves in Deep Roads) just wanted to stay alone in their own lands with their own religion

and just not wanted to have trade(becase they never need that)....and have sex relationship with human race who are...

1)crazy for them(they are worship to non-existen Maker-god in fade and who never been seen by their ancestors who been in fade),

2)very short-lived,(if you can live more that 400 years..do you really wanted to start family relationship with person and produce childrens who can't live more than 50 and they would be quickly get old and dying then you be still very young, strong and beauty.....this is ammoral)

3)non-mage(ancient Tevinters stolen their powerfull magic blood by crossbreeding with elves and they still have pure mages magisters dynasties...but they are still humans and they not have their magic immortality even when they be in Black City not really change that),

4)greed, agressive and barbaric(remmember that they not so long time ago ENSLAVED THEM FOR CENTURIES)

5)have beards and have different body structure(what 100% are not sexually attractive for 90% elves)

and do this to only produce more humans and totally destroy their own different race?

Orlais repeated with Dales  the same as Ancient Tevinter to Arlathan, but they do that not just because cult of Andraste and greed for conquer other lands.....they do that, because they envied and feared the return of Elven former magic powers and their connection with Fade(that would destroy all their religion in Maker and Andraste)...

as Ancient Tevinter, Orlais were jealous of Elven long life span, magic immortality and powerfull magic ability's....and they wanted to take all Elven chance to recover and be as their ancestors and be better than Humans.... they even tried to repeat the same as Ancient Tevinters and force elves to live inside human citys in the hope of a chance for their race to at least not be less and weak that them

and Elves not want to give Humans powers of their ancestors because they seen what they can make with them, this is the main reason why they want to separate(not genocide because Elf's are peacefull) from them, to cut all possible chances for barbaric greed and agressive human race to ruin all Thedas with gift of magic what their Elven ancesstors granted them to their biggest mistake

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 14 avril 2013 - 01:40 .

[Ausstig]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ausstig wrote...
1. So is it not racist to say that the children of Blacks and Whites are Black? (Unless it's Australian Aborigines, in which case they get whiter).

What the hell are you talking about? That's not how genetics works at all.

Well they (genraly) look darker then white people. There are resevie genes, I assume the Elf ears are one of them.

[Ausstig]

Dark Korsar wrote...

damn you hypocrites....

elves(as like Dwarves in Deep Roads) just wanted to stay alone in their own lands with their own religion

and just not wanted to have trade(becase they never need that)....and sex relationship with human race who are...

1)crazy(they are worship to non-existen Maker-god in fade and who never been seen by their ancestors who been in fade),

2)very short-lived,(if you can live more that 200 years..do you really wanted to start family relationship with person and produce childrens who can't live more than 50 and they would be quickly get old and dying then you be still very young, strong and beauty.....this is ammoral)

3)non-mage(ancient Tevinters stolen their powerfull magic blood by crossbreeding with elves and they still have pure mages magisters dynasties...but they are still humans and they not have their magic immortality even when they be in Black City not really change that),

4)greed, agressive and barbaric(remmember that they not so long time ago ENSLAVED THEM FOR CENTURIES)

5)have beards and have different body structure(what 100% are not sexually attractive for 90% elves)

and do this to only produce more humans and totally destroy their own different race?

Orlais repeated with Dales  the same as Ancient Tevinter to Arlathan, but they do that not just because cult of Andraste and greed for conquer other lands.....they do that, because they envied and feared the return of Elven former magic powers and their connection with Fade(that would destroy all their religion in Maker and Andraste)...

as Ancient Tevinter, Orlais were jealous of Elven long life span, magic immortality and powerfull magic ability's....and they wanted to take all Elven chance to recover and be as their ancestors and be better than Humans.... they even tried to repeat the same as Ancient Tevinters and force elves to live inside human citys in the hope of a chance for their race to at least not be less and weak that them

and Elves not want to give Humans powers of their ancestors because they seen what they can make with them, this is the main reason why they want to separate(not genocide because Elf's are peacefull) from them, to cut all possible chances for barbaric greed and agressive human race to ruin all Thedas with gift magic what their Elven ancesstors granted to their biggest mistake

Are you trolling or trying to make a point?

[Noctis Augustus]

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
All the people on this planet are human. That isn't the case for Thedas. Elves and humans have human children; this is what the developers said on the matter. Why are you trying to debate this point with me simply because I pointed out what the creators of Dragon Age said? Why must I repeatedly point this out to you in every single reply? I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but please stop trying to conflate real world people and real life racism with fictional fantasy races who are literally different races. Humans aren't elves; elves aren't human. And the children of elves and humans are human because that's what the developers decided on.

But what is the measure of humanity? What makes the elves non-human? They have distinguishing physical characteristics such as a leaner and smaller constitution whereas humans are taller and broader of chest and shoulder or their ears which are pointier than human ears.
Honestly, there, arguably, bigger difference between the different races of humans in our planet. Races who, much like humans and elves, developed in different continents. Therefore, why is it acceptable to defend the segregation of humans and elves but not the segregation of europeans and africans?
It seems to me that if you oppose one, you must oppose the other. Interracial procreation in our world also produces offspring with racial characteristics that will favor one race over the other.

Elves aren't human, human aren't elves. Europeans aren't african, africans aren't european.

Are you seriously comparing races to at least sub-species? Elves are not human. If you want to compare the Elves to real life then you have the ****** sapiens neanderthalensis, which are possibly a ****** sapiens sub-species. Oh and one possible hyptheses to their extinction is that they reproduced with humans and were hybridized.

Incorrect. The elves aren't under any obligation to allow anyone into their sovereign territory, especially hostile humans who have no respect for their culture or their religion.

No, they aren't. Some us of simply consider their xenophobia and isolation to be both an unwise and morally repugnant action.

Xenophobia? Since when have they shown fear because of the humans being different? Morally repugnant? What about the Chantry? Aren't they morally repugnant? Yet you don't criticize them.

The historical context is that the elves of the Dales kept out an empire known for invading its neighbors. And none of the facts dismiss the Dalish version of events as untrue. Also, Orlais invaded Nevarra after the Third Blight, so your latter point can be viewed in that context.

Not disprove it, no. But we know for a fact they are not telling the whole story. All elves we have met have ommited the fact they sacked Val-Royeaux.
If they are not willing to own up to that particular attrocity, what else are they choosing to ignore because it doesn't make them look good?

Attrocity? You have the tendency to exaggerate don't you? If that's even true, because that is the Orlesian account.

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 14 avril 2013 - 01:11 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Ausstig wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

damn you hypocrites....

elves(as like Dwarves in Deep Roads) just wanted to stay alone in their own lands with their own religion 

and just not wanted to have trade(becase they never need that)....and have sex relationship with human race who are...

1)crazy for them(they are worship to non-existen Maker-god in fade and who never been seen by their ancestors who been in fade),

2)very short-lived,(if you can live more that 400 years..do you really wanted to start family relationship with person and produce childrens who can't live more than 50 and they would be quickly get old and dying then you be still very young, strong and beauty.....this is ammoral)

3)non-mage(ancient Tevinters stolen their powerfull magic blood by crossbreeding with elves and they still have pure mages magisters dynasties...but they are still humans and they not have their magic immortality even when they be in Black City not really change that), 

4)greed, agressive and barbaric(remmember that they not so long time ago ENSLAVED THEM FOR CENTURIES) 

5)have beards and have different body structure(what 100% are not sexually attractive for 90% elves)

and do this to only produce more humans and totally destroy their own different race?

Orlais repeated with Dales  the same as Ancient Tevinter to Arlathan, but they do that not just because cult of Andraste and greed for conquer other lands.....they do that, because they envied and feared the return of Elven former magic powers and their connection with Fade(that would destroy all their religion in Maker and Andraste)...

as Ancient Tevinter, Orlais were jealous of Elven long life span, magic immortality and powerfull magic ability's....and they wanted to take all Elven chance to recover and be as their ancestors and be better than Humans.... they even tried to repeat the same as Ancient Tevinters and force elves to live inside human citys in the hope of a chance for their race to at least not be less and weak that them

and Elves not want to give Humans powers of their ancestors because they seen what they can make with them, this is the main reason why they want to separate(not genocide because Elf's are peacefull) from them, to cut all possible chances for barbaric greed and agressive human race to ruin all Thedas with gift of magic what their Elven ancesstors granted them to their biggest mistake

Are you trolling or trying to make a point? 

and where did you find any trolling in my comment?....or did I write something that is not true?<_< 

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 14 avril 2013 - 01:47 .

[Ausstig]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

damn you hypocrites....

elves(as like Dwarves in Deep Roads) just wanted to stay alone in their own lands with their own religion 

and just not wanted to have trade(becase they never need that)....and have sex relationship with human race who are...

1)crazy for them(they are worship to non-existen Maker-god in fade and who never been seen by their ancestors who been in fade),

2)very short-lived,(if you can live more that 400 years..do you really wanted to start family relationship with person and produce childrens who can't live more than 50 and they would be quickly get old and dying then you be still very young, strong and beauty.....this is ammoral)

3)non-mage(ancient Tevinters stolen their powerfull magic blood by crossbreeding with elves and they still have pure mages magisters dynasties...but they are still humans and they not have their magic immortality even when they be in Black City not really change that), 

4)greed, agressive and barbaric(remmember that they not so long time ago ENSLAVED THEM FOR CENTURIES) 

5)have beards and have different body structure(what 100% are not sexually attractive for 90% elves)

and do this to only produce more humans and totally destroy their own different race?

Orlais repeated with Dales  the same as Ancient Tevinter to Arlathan, but they do that not just because cult of Andraste and greed for conquer other lands.....they do that, because they envied and feared the return of Elven former magic powers and their connection with Fade(that would destroy all their religion in Maker and Andraste)...

as Ancient Tevinter, Orlais were jealous of Elven long life span, magic immortality and powerfull magic ability's....and they wanted to take all Elven chance to recover and be as their ancestors and be better than Humans.... they even tried to repeat the same as Ancient Tevinters and force elves to live inside human citys in the hope of a chance for their race to at least not be less and weak that them

and Elves not want to give Humans powers of their ancestors because they seen what they can make with them, this is the main reason why they want to separate(not genocide because Elf's are peacefull) from them, to cut all possible chances for barbaric greed and agressive human race to ruin all Thedas with gift of magic what their Elven ancesstors granted them to their biggest mistake

Are you trolling or trying to make a point? 

and where did you find any trolling in my comment?....or did I write something that is not true?<_< 

The parts in bold for starters.

[Ausstig]

ibbikiookami wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
All the people on this planet are human. That isn't the case for Thedas. Elves and humans have human children; this is what the developers said on the matter. Why are you trying to debate this point with me simply because I pointed out what the creators of Dragon Age said? Why must I repeatedly point this out to you in every single reply? I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but please stop trying to conflate real world people and real life racism with fictional fantasy races who are literally different races. Humans aren't elves; elves aren't human. And the children of elves and humans are human because that's what the developers decided on.

But what is the measure of humanity? What makes the elves non-human? They have distinguishing physical characteristics such as a leaner and smaller constitution whereas humans are taller and broader of chest and shoulder or their ears which are pointier than human ears.
Honestly, there, arguably, bigger difference between the different races of humans in our planet. Races who, much like humans and elves, developed in different continents. Therefore, why is it acceptable to defend the segregation of humans and elves but not the segregation of europeans and africans?
It seems to me that if you oppose one, you must oppose the other. Interracial procreation in our world also produces offspring with racial characteristics that will favor one race over the other.

Elves aren't human, human aren't elves. Europeans aren't african, africans aren't european.

1.Are you seriously comparing races to at least sub-species? Elves are not human. If you want to compare the Elves to real life then you have the ****** sapiens neanderthalensis, which are possibly a ****** sapiens sub-species. Oh and one possible hyptheses to their extinction is that they reproduced with humans and were hybridized.

Incorrect. The elves aren't under any obligation to allow anyone into their sovereign territory, especially hostile humans who have no respect for their culture or their religion.

No, they aren't. Some us of simply consider their xenophobia and isolation to be both an unwise and morally repugnant action.

2. Xenophobia? Since when have they shown fear because of the humans being different? Morally repugnant? What about the Chantry? Aren't they morally repugnant? Yet you don't criticize them.

The historical context is that the elves of the Dales kept out an empire known for invading its neighbors. And none of the facts dismiss the Dalish version of events as untrue. Also, Orlais invaded Nevarra after the Third Blight, so your latter point can be viewed in that context.

Not disprove it, no. But we know for a fact they are not telling the whole story. All elves we have met have ommited the fact they sacked Val-Royeaux.
If they are not willing to own up to that particular attrocity, what else are they choosing to ignore because it doesn't make them look good?

3. Attrocity? You have the tendency to exaggerate don't you? If that's even true, because that is the Orlesian account.

1. Are Elves that different? If you had an Asian, a Black and a White in the same room, would an Elf be that out of place? (DA:O the only difference is the ears and even DA2 some don't look that different)

2. Did the Chantry let Darkspawn destory towns unimpeaded during a blight? 

3. So you think Orlais lied about the attack on their capital? Maybe the Elves lied about being imortal? You don't doubt them.

[Asdrubael Vect]

[quote]Ausstig wrote...

[quote]Dark Korsar wrote...

[quote]Ausstig wrote...

[quote]Dark Korsar wrote...



1)very short-lived
2)non-mage
3)have beards and have different body structure(what 100% are not sexually attractive for 90% elves)

.4)as Ancient Tevinter, Orlais were jealous of Elven long life span, magic immortality and powerfull magic ability's....and they wanted to take all Elven chance to recover and be as their ancestors and be better than Humans.... they even tried to repeat the same as Ancient Tevinters and force elves to live inside human citys in the hope of a chance for their race to at least not be less and weak that them

[/quote]


The parts in bold for starters.

[/quote][/quote]1)yes they are, complain to today Dalish elves and what lived thousand years ago without Tevinter or Orlais invasion after second blight...and they can live more if orlais with Chantry not conquer them

2)humans never possesed natural magic abilitys and connection with Fade, they have them through crossbredeing with Ancient Elves, and they almost always be weaker than Elven mages and need to use lyrium and blood to achieve the same effect

and as we see on Fenris, Lyrium Vassalin makes even non-mages City Elves more powerfull then any Templars(who needs to use Lirium every 2 weaks(they have even die through mounth without lyriгm) to just have their abilitys, and when they need more powers) and even some Tevinters mages(who have more ancient elven blood in their veins than mages from others countries) 

3)and what, thats not true? can you see many Dalish or City Elves who loved this, and now imagine elves before Orlais invasion....for them it's like Dwarves for Kossinds.....or like Vorcha for anothers ...we know that any DIFFERENT race have their own preference for beauty and sexuality

4)and, try to say me that it is not true...and they just need their forest territories, free/cheep workers and change their religion to Maker and have trade with whem.

..SRLY? so why they not do that for weakned from Darkspawn Dwarven race who lived in deep roads and who have a lot of  "free" minerals, metals and LYRIUM.

...or but their actually can claim crusade for them if one priest die in Orzammar

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 15 avril 2013 - 09:23 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Ausstig wrote...


1. Are Elves that different? If you had an Asian, a Black and a White in the same room, would an Elf be that out of place? (DA:O the only difference is the ears and even DA2 some don't look that different)

2. Did the Chantry let Darkspawn destory towns unimpeaded during a blight? 

3. So you think Orlais lied about the attack on their capital? Maybe the Elves lied about being imortal? You don't doubt them.

1)yes they are...they live MUCH longer, they have different biology and body structure...they have natural powerfull magic abilitys and they have very close connection with Fade

and they have their own diffirent ancient culture and tradition, language, mindset

ELVES ARE DIFFERENT RACE WHO LIVED IN THEDAS FOR MILENIA AND NEVER BE A PART OF HUMAN RACE such as Dwarves and Kossind(who as humans came from another lands)

and childrens of Ancient or today long lived Elves and Humans can produce only short lived humans

2)so Dales who SEPARATED from Orlais,  have their own army of soldiers near orlais-human city ON ORLAIS TERRITORIES during DAMN BLIGHT? SRLY?   

Maybe Chantry would claim..." that they were flying Emerald Knights  mounted on Dragons and who have blood magic orgy with desire demons and after they rape female Human peasants and sacrificed them to their gods":D

and even if Elven army was really be near their city, why they need to help to city of another country from what they have separated, never be a part of it, and not  have any political relationship?

even Grey Wardens not ask for their help and ORLAIS TOO

and this is very stupid and make non sense, because Dales really need their own army to protect their own territories and they have no reason to send their soldiers into Orlais territories

3)but Orlais first start a war against Elves and first attack them, and after some time Elven army can attack their capital

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 15 avril 2013 - 12:34 .

[Ausstig]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Ausstig wrote...


1. Are Elves that different? If you had an Asian, a Black and a White in the same room, would an Elf be that out of place? (DA:O the only difference is the ears and even DA2 some don't look that different)

2. Did the Chantry let Darkspawn destory towns unimpeaded during a blight? 

3. So you think Orlais lied about the attack on their capital? Maybe the Elves lied about being imortal? You don't doubt them.

1)yes they are...they live MUCH longer, they have different biology and body structure...they have natural powerfull magic abilitys and they have very close connection with Fade

and they have their own diffirent ancient culture and tradition, language, mindset

ELVES ARE DIFFERENT RACE WHO LIVED IN THEDAS FOR MILENIA AND NEVER BE A PART OF HUMAN RACE such as Dwarves and Kossind(who as humans came from another lands)

and childrens of Ancient or today long lived Elves and Humans can produce only short lived humans

2)so SEPARATED from Orlais elves have their own army of soldiers "on picnic" near orlais-human city ON ORLAIS TERRITORIES during DAMN BLIGHT? SRLY?   

Maybe they were flying Emerald Knights  mounted on Dragons and who have blood magic orgy with desire demons and after they rape female Human peasants and sacrificed them to their gods:D

and even if they really be near their city why they need to help to city of another country from what they separated and never be a part of it and not  have any political relationship? even Grey Wardens not ask for their help and ORLAIS TOO

and this is very stupid and make non sense, because they really need to protect their own territories and not going to Orlais territories

3)but they first claim war against Elves and attack them, and after some time Elven army can attack their capital

1. No they don't, they don't have any greater mage population other then in their legends.

2. What the hell are you saying?

3. (bold) Says who the Elves? Or the Elves start the war and attack while Orlais is weak.

[Ausstig]

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

From the Which race lives the longest thread:

http://social.biowar...ndex/16519770/2

So there. Another whole in the Elf immortal story

[Asdrubael Vect]

Qunari have full race segregation with ban for any crossbreeding for hundred/thousand years

and what kind of medicine they could have, what can be better than Magic???

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 15 avril 2013 - 12:37 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Ausstig wrote...

1. No they don't, they don't have any greater mage population other then in their legends. 
2. What the hell are you saying?
3. (bold) Says who the Elves? Or the Elves start the war and attack while Orlais is weak. 

1)yes they are and Tevinter said that too(and they Magisters dynasties proves it)...and they still have a lot of mage population, and they have a high chances to give birth for a powerfull mage childrens

2) 3)sorry for my bad english, please re-read

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 15 avril 2013 - 12:31 .

[LobselVith8]

Ausstig wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

From the Which race lives the longest thread:

http://social.biowar...ndex/16519770/2

So there. Another whole in the Elf immortal story

Which is explicitly contradicted by Gaider's comments about the longevity of the Dalish at Thedas UK Con in Leicestershire, England, on Saturday January 14th, 2012 (emphasis mine):

David Gaider: "City elves have the same lifespans as humans. They call them shemlen because it's an ancient word...occasionally city elves will use some words that are elven without really understanding where they really come from. So it's a derogatory term, and that's all it is to them when they say shem, the short version, they call humans that even though the reasons for that word no longer exist. Dalish tend to live longer. We're not talking into Tolkienesque numbers of years here. The longer they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity, the longer they seem to live. There are exceptional individuals among them as well, Zathrian had lived for almost three hundred years. It's going to vary but for the city elves, the elves that live inside human cities, they don't have exceptional lifespans at all."

[Senya]

I will say that deliberate isolation breeds mistrust. It was a poor decision and, if they feared spies, they could do the same thing. And the elves were isolationist since 1025 TE, meaning they isolated themselves for nearly three centuries.

It didn't justify what happened, but it still fueled mistrust between humans and elves and meant they didn't have any allies among humans.

[Asdrubael Vect]

almostinsane99 wrote...

I will say that deliberate isolation breeds mistrust. It was a poor decision and, if they feared spies, they could do the same thing. And the elves were isolationist since 1025 TE, meaning they isolated themselves for nearly three centuries.

It didn't justify what happened, but it still fueled mistrust between humans and elves and meant they didn't have any allies among humans.

ohh but they have at least 1 ally,  its Tevinter Empire who is really hates Orlais as their Chantry and Templars

and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and Orlais with Chantry have a lot of enemies

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 20 avril 2013 - 03:52 .

[Senya]

^

Tevinter, seriously? The elves probably hated them even more than Orlais and you can't trust Tevinter not to reconquer them after Orlais is defeated. Not to mention all the other human nations would oppose Tevinter in principle.

And, again, the elves refusing to help in the Blight would have alienated them from the participants: Tevinter, Orlais (but they don't count in this instance as possible allies against Orlais), the newly independent Anderfels, and the Free Marches. The Grey Wardens were probably annoyed too.

[Asdrubael Vect]

almostinsane99 wrote...

^

Tevinter, seriously? The elves probably hated them even more than Orlais and you can't trust Tevinter not to reconquer them after Orlais is defeated. Not to mention all the other human nations would oppose Tevinter in principle.

And, again, the elves refusing to help in the Blight would have alienated them from the participants: Tevinter, Orlais (but they don't count in this instance as possible allies against Orlais), the newly independent Anderfels, and the Free Marches. The Grey Wardens were probably annoyed too.

1)yes, Tevinter

2)and why Tevinters would even try to do that...this is no more Ancient Tevinters who wanted Ancient Elven magic powers and immortality and go to Black city...they no need of that anymore

3)hmm Anderfels, Rivain, Antiva, Ferelden have no conflicts with Tevinter...Nevarra and some parts of Free Marches who support Orlais, yes...and Orlais Chantry looses their influence as Orlais Empire

4)Tevinters is rulled by mages, not a racist and they not care about you religion...and they are very hate Orlais, Chantry and Templars

5)Tevinters is not really need of any Orlais terrtories they need to deafeat Orlais Empire and Chantry, and if they really wanted Orlais so the first they need at least conquer Nevarra

6)Tevinters already have their main eternal enemies as Qun and Orlais with his Chantry, I think they do not need more enemies, they need an ally with similar interests

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 20 avril 2013 - 08:06 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Elves aren't ever going to ally with Tevinter... The majority of Tevinter slaves are Elven, and you expect Elves to ally with them? That is not going to happen.