Sir JK wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
I'm of the mind that allowing racist, religiously Andrastian humans near "heathens" or prosperous elves wouldn't be safe for the elven people in a reclaimed kingdom where the People can freely practice their faith. Humans rioted and murdered in the Epilogues simply because the elves in the Denerim Alienage were more prosperous for a change. Duncan noted that it's almost impossible to convince people to see elves as equals when they've always seen elves as less than people. I don't think many - if any - humans would recognize elves ruling their kingdom again. I think getting those particular Andrastians out of the kingdom would be necessary, although I think it can be done without the need for bloodshed (even if the humans are plotting a coup against the elves).
Do you think humans would change if the elves reclaimed the Dales? You think they would abide by the People worshipping their gods instead of the Maker?
Frankly, that really wouldn't be up to me, since I can't play as a Dalish protagonist helping his people reclaim their homeland. I think the alternative would be a human who works with the downtrodden elves to reclaim their homeland from the Orlesian Empire.
The problem is that where would the Dales-Orlesians go? Even if we assume that somehow relocating the population is at all possible without massive loss of life and property (extremely unlikely) there's not really anywhere for them to go...
That's a fair question. Nevarra could be a possibility. Or the Anderfels (which you also mention in a little bit), where there are large regions that remain unpopulated. Since it's a strongly religiously Andrastian nation, the migrating humans would probably get along with their new neighbors who share their religious beliefs and views.
My interest in reclaiming the Dales for the elves is that everywhere in Thedas, elves are treated as less than second-class citizens by human society. They live in Alienages where they can be purged, and humans don't care whether their women are abducted in broad daylight to be gang raped, or if their children are being murdered by a serial killer.
There's the additional problem of the inclusion of the Dalish elves, who follow a different religion than the Andrastian Chantry (which is outlawed in Andrastian lands). The problem remains that the People are viewed as "heathens", and Duncan acknowledged to the elven protagonist that elves are viewed as less than people by many Andrastians. Do you think the humans in the occupied kingdom of the Dales would accept the elves ruling over themselves? Or the reinstatement of the free worship of the Creators, when the Chantry preaches that the Maker will only return when the Chant is sung from the four corners of the world?
I think an exodus of humans unwilling to accept the elves ruling over themselves would prevent bloodshed, especially when history has proven how hostile many humans are to the elves and elven prosperity. In the Epilogues, the humans couldn't resist murdering the Bann Shianni or rioting when the Elven Warden who became their Bann made the Denerim Alienage prosperous for the elven people. Even the Epilogue had the acknowledgement: "With <FirstName/> as their new voice, the elves became prosperous in a way they had never known... enough to draw elves from nearby lands, desperate for real hope. The influx built ire among the human population and eventually resulted in a riot in Denerim, showing that as much as things change, they always stay the same."
Sir JK wrote...
Except into the Alienages. Tevinter slavery and very inhospitable land. Noone is going to shed farmland for a refugee, no matter their race. We don't know how many of these Orlesians are... but you're not really solving the situation for the City elves... just their race. Maybe they get to be volounteered for a settling of northern Anderfels or the area around Mont-de-glace if they're "lucky" (it's akin to be chosen to settle Siberia). But most likely you've just created a whole "nation" of destitute humans in place of elves.
A people with nowhere to go and a lot of bitterness towards the elves.
Honestly, I'm not looking to solve all the problems in the world. I'm simply looking at a hypothetical scenario where the elves can finally have a homeland where they follow their religion and live in peace, without being murdered by bigoted Andrastians humans who are intolerant towards elves or other religions.
Sir JK wrote...
As for if humanity would abide? I think they would, once the initial animosity has died down. If the elves win a few victories and allows trade, then humanity will after a while accept the Dales as a nation. If the Dales forcibly expelled their human population (or worse, killed them), it will take much longer. Isolation will breed mistrust, so the more the elves pursue trade the easier it'll be for their neighbours to accept the elves. There's going to be Orlesian conservatives and reactionaries that will see this as weakness and motion for a recnquest (especially if humans are relocated/killed).
The world is distracted because of the Mage-Templar War and Orlais is in the middle of a civil war, which is why now would be the
perfect opportunity for the elves to reclaim their homeland.
Sir JK wrote...
But the biggest and most important question if the Dales would be accepted by their neighbouring humans is a domestic one:
It's a guess of mine that by far the most elves are city elves, and that the core bulk of these are in nations following the Chant of Light (and a significant amount in the Imperial Chantry). These elves are still going to be massively attracted by the land where all elves are rich and free. But they're all speaking different languages (with a touch of elven), coming from different cultures and with different backgrounds.
We're going to have the lavish and extravagant Orlesian elves, the death-inspired Nevarran elves, devout Ander elves, freeminded Fereldan elves, diverse Marcher elves, trading Antivan elves and a handful of Rivaini elves. They're all going to have absorbed values and such from their "host"-cultures. They're going to share the most fundamental things such as hahrens and Vhenadhals of course.
Which is an excellent point, and would make for some interesting stories if the Dales were reclaimed by the elves. I don't deny that there would likely be some conflicts among the Dalish who would want to restore the worship of their gods, as well as the cultural views of the downtrodden elves who currently live in the Dales.
It's this kind of story potential that really appeals to me about the elves reclaiming the Dales.
Sir JK wrote...
And religion. They're all going to share the Chant of Light. Some will abandon it sure. But for many of them it'll be the one of them few things they have in common. One of the few and strongest societal links they have. So there's going to be a "flat-ear" Chantry establishing itself quickly in the Dales. It'll be grassroots, sure. But it'll be there. Along side with the Dalish and a small Tevinter Chantry and... possibly even the Qun.
And it is the reaction to that which is going to colour the human reaction. If the Dalish decide to tolerate it and not obstruct the elven Chantry in any way... then acceptance will be quick.
But if they suppress it... persecute it... or worse yet... seek to eradicate it... the humanity will never accept or forgive the elves.
I doubt that human nations would accept the kingdom of the Dales even if the elves accepted the construction of a Chantry, although I agree that there would likely be some issues with elves who follow the Chantry, and the Dalish elves who believe in the Creators. Again, more story potential to delve into with a newly emancipated kingdom of the Dales!
Retour en haut
you know what.... **** you Orlais/Chantry/Templars/Seekers, we wait enough and this time to grape you in the mouth for you crimes and wipe out from Thedas forever
